Which Speakers should I get???
- Thread starter bjeans79
- Start date
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
Definatly later breakup. I love that SRV texas Flood blues tone. I would say I am more partial towards Fender amps, I play a strat, but I think I might get some Celestions for that british Hendrix type tone. I am going to have to invest in some type of head or something. What are some good Amp heads for blues players with strats?
Definatly later breakup. I love that SRV texas Flood blues tone. I would say I am more partial towards Fender amps, I play a strat, but I think I might get some Celestions for that british Hendrix type tone. I am going to have to invest in some type of head or something. What are some good Amp heads for blues players with strats?
wixedmords
New member
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
I think you are getting some good advise on either the G12H30 or Greenback. I would add the Emi Legend GB128. It is very much Greenback like but has the capability to handle 50 watts.
You can hear it here, at the end of this list:
http://www.eminence.com/soundclips.asp
You may want to purchase the head first, as you will get better results that way. For a reasonable head of 50 watts or under I would likely look at an old Bandmaster. A Bandmaster with a good 2x12 cab with Greenback-like speakers would be pretty sweet.
I think you are getting some good advise on either the G12H30 or Greenback. I would add the Emi Legend GB128. It is very much Greenback like but has the capability to handle 50 watts.
You can hear it here, at the end of this list:
http://www.eminence.com/soundclips.asp
You may want to purchase the head first, as you will get better results that way. For a reasonable head of 50 watts or under I would likely look at an old Bandmaster. A Bandmaster with a good 2x12 cab with Greenback-like speakers would be pretty sweet.
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
When I buy stuff I like to go all the way and get really good equipment. If I am going to get a head, I want it to be kick ass. I cant get that Jimi Hendrix tone on songs like Red House and The Wind crys mary out of my head. Im jonesin for some killer blues tone. NOW!!!
When I buy stuff I like to go all the way and get really good equipment. If I am going to get a head, I want it to be kick ass. I cant get that Jimi Hendrix tone on songs like Red House and The Wind crys mary out of my head. Im jonesin for some killer blues tone. NOW!!!
Lake Placid Blues
New member
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
For a blues amp, head only, I'd reccomend a Marshall JTM45, or a good clone there of. KT66 tubes, and G12H's are part of that Hendrix thing.
For a blues amp, head only, I'd reccomend a Marshall JTM45, or a good clone there of. KT66 tubes, and G12H's are part of that Hendrix thing.
Last edited:
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
Has anyone here ever tried the Weber 12A125A or 12A150 or 12A150T before. I think they might be what I am looking for. If my amp has 50 watts of power what if I had 2 25w speakers. Would that give me more speaker breakup than if I used 2 50w speakers?
Has anyone here ever tried the Weber 12A125A or 12A150 or 12A150T before. I think they might be what I am looking for. If my amp has 50 watts of power what if I had 2 25w speakers. Would that give me more speaker breakup than if I used 2 50w speakers?
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
I haven't tried that one, but you might want to shoot Christian, the guy who invented fire, a PM he probably has.
Yeah you will have more breakup out of 2x25 watt speakers than of 2x50 watt speakers.
Luke
I haven't tried that one, but you might want to shoot Christian, the guy who invented fire, a PM he probably has.
Yeah you will have more breakup out of 2x25 watt speakers than of 2x50 watt speakers.
Luke
d1dsj
Cornographer
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
I'd go Greenbacks... but try to find some old Rola Celestion Made in England ones. The magnets have aged and the cones have loosened up.. they always sound better. Infact, I've just got a an old 70's/ 80's Orange 4 x 12 with old Greenbacks in and it's awesome. Big, fat and warm... I love it though I guess some of that sound is the cab construction etc. I have had several cabs with V30's and I awlays find them harsh, I really DON'T know why I've brought so many cabs with them in????? All the best.
I'd go Greenbacks... but try to find some old Rola Celestion Made in England ones. The magnets have aged and the cones have loosened up.. they always sound better. Infact, I've just got a an old 70's/ 80's Orange 4 x 12 with old Greenbacks in and it's awesome. Big, fat and warm... I love it though I guess some of that sound is the cab construction etc. I have had several cabs with V30's and I awlays find them harsh, I really DON'T know why I've brought so many cabs with them in????? All the best.
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
I think the 12A125A's might be what I am looking for. How long does it usually take a speaker to "break in." I should note that I do want a really fat warm sound and not so much the brittle highs, but I do want it to have clarity. As far as good heads go, how close is a bandmaster head to a super reverb or twin as far as the insides go? THanks
I think the 12A125A's might be what I am looking for. How long does it usually take a speaker to "break in." I should note that I do want a really fat warm sound and not so much the brittle highs, but I do want it to have clarity. As far as good heads go, how close is a bandmaster head to a super reverb or twin as far as the insides go? THanks
Last edited:
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
A bandmaster is pretty different from a twin, and a good bit different than a super. A bandmaster reverb would be closer to a super than a twin though.
As far as brittle highs go, you can get those with either Alnico OR Ceramic mag based speakers in the wrong setup. You also have to realize that a big chunk of blackface amps came with ceramic speakers.
Luke
A bandmaster is pretty different from a twin, and a good bit different than a super. A bandmaster reverb would be closer to a super than a twin though.
As far as brittle highs go, you can get those with either Alnico OR Ceramic mag based speakers in the wrong setup. You also have to realize that a big chunk of blackface amps came with ceramic speakers.
Luke
Sherman
New member
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
I tried out a lot of speakers in my 2x12's. In the end I like some form of Ted Weber's speakers. One of my 2x12's is loaded with the Weber 1230-55's. Another has a Weber Alnico Blue Dog and an Alnico Vox Silver Dog.
I also like Scumback Speakers (these are made by Ted Weber for Southbay Ampworks www.southbayampworks.com). The designer Jim Seavall did a boatload of research on vintage Celestions and figured out what made them sound good. Scumback Speakers sound incredible right out of the box and sound better with age. I've owned/played the HP75, HP55 and HP75LHDC. I currently have an HP75 and an HP55 in my amps.
YMMV..........
I tried out a lot of speakers in my 2x12's. In the end I like some form of Ted Weber's speakers. One of my 2x12's is loaded with the Weber 1230-55's. Another has a Weber Alnico Blue Dog and an Alnico Vox Silver Dog.
I also like Scumback Speakers (these are made by Ted Weber for Southbay Ampworks www.southbayampworks.com). The designer Jim Seavall did a boatload of research on vintage Celestions and figured out what made them sound good. Scumback Speakers sound incredible right out of the box and sound better with age. I've owned/played the HP75, HP55 and HP75LHDC. I currently have an HP75 and an HP55 in my amps.
YMMV..........
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
Could you name a few popular fender blackface amps that had ceramic mags? Do you know what magnet Blue Marvel speakers use? (whats in my peavey.) Thanks.
Could you name a few popular fender blackface amps that had ceramic mags? Do you know what magnet Blue Marvel speakers use? (whats in my peavey.) Thanks.
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
What I am looking for is the epitomy of the 60's sound. I know that will require a vintage head but I dont have the money for that just yet. I wanted to experiment a lil with some different sounds. I would love that creamy JH tone that he got with the neck neck/mid on the strat. Also SRV's version of little wing had a very sparkling clear tone. I think one thing I definatly need is a tubescreamer for that overdriven speaker clean boost sound. The problem with my amp right now is it has more distortion than gain. I want to be able to play chords with gain(distortion on my amp) without them fuzzing out and becoming unclear. There is alot of directions I can take but it is hard to know where the f to start. Thanks for the help.
What I am looking for is the epitomy of the 60's sound. I know that will require a vintage head but I dont have the money for that just yet. I wanted to experiment a lil with some different sounds. I would love that creamy JH tone that he got with the neck neck/mid on the strat. Also SRV's version of little wing had a very sparkling clear tone. I think one thing I definatly need is a tubescreamer for that overdriven speaker clean boost sound. The problem with my amp right now is it has more distortion than gain. I want to be able to play chords with gain(distortion on my amp) without them fuzzing out and becoming unclear. There is alot of directions I can take but it is hard to know where the f to start. Thanks for the help.
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
Twins, Showmans, and Deluxes come to mind.....all had twelves. Princetons, Vibroluxes, and Supers both had alnico speakers. I got to thinking about it, and I think it really boils down to two things.
10 or 12, and Jensen or other.
Blue Marvels are ceramic. You can tell an alnico because the back of the speaker has a large assembly on back. It might or might not be covered with something that looks like a bell.
Luke
Twins, Showmans, and Deluxes come to mind.....all had twelves. Princetons, Vibroluxes, and Supers both had alnico speakers. I got to thinking about it, and I think it really boils down to two things.
10 or 12, and Jensen or other.
Blue Marvels are ceramic. You can tell an alnico because the back of the speaker has a large assembly on back. It might or might not be covered with something that looks like a bell.
Luke
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
I guess the only way to find out whats for me is trial and error. But that can get expensive if I dont like what I buy. Even with a 14 day return policy or something, I dont think thats enough time to really discover all the things a particular speaker is capable of. Im just jonesin for that killer blues tone.
I guess the only way to find out whats for me is trial and error. But that can get expensive if I dont like what I buy. Even with a 14 day return policy or something, I dont think thats enough time to really discover all the things a particular speaker is capable of. Im just jonesin for that killer blues tone.
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
The thing is that many people only get alnico because they know they are, supposed, to like them. Those same guys usually use them in situations where they don't sound their best. That said, that is the case with Celestion style Alnicos, not Jensen style.
The general I'd go by is: if you want 60s 12s tone then go with ceramic, if you want 50's 12s tone then go with alnico.
If it was me I'd get one of each like Christian did (the guy who invented fire) it sounds KILLER in his Super clone.
Luke
The thing is that many people only get alnico because they know they are, supposed, to like them. Those same guys usually use them in situations where they don't sound their best. That said, that is the case with Celestion style Alnicos, not Jensen style.
The general I'd go by is: if you want 60s 12s tone then go with ceramic, if you want 50's 12s tone then go with alnico.
If it was me I'd get one of each like Christian did (the guy who invented fire) it sounds KILLER in his Super clone.
Luke
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
Alright, so say I am to get some celestions. If i got a 1 vintage 30 and 1 g12h or greenback, wouldnt one of those overpower the other, and should I just get 2 of each (I know its more money but will the tone from 212 instead of 1 each be better) or just mix 1 of each?
In the Jensen neck of the woods, I was thinking of making a 212 cab with 1 alnico and 1 ceramic, maybe a p12n or q with a c12 n or q. Do you know if Ted Webers copys of Jensens are better than Jensens?
For blues, Will I get more natural breakup if I use 50w of speakers w/ 50w of amp or 100w of speakers with 50w of amp? Thanks.
Alright, so say I am to get some celestions. If i got a 1 vintage 30 and 1 g12h or greenback, wouldnt one of those overpower the other, and should I just get 2 of each (I know its more money but will the tone from 212 instead of 1 each be better) or just mix 1 of each?
In the Jensen neck of the woods, I was thinking of making a 212 cab with 1 alnico and 1 ceramic, maybe a p12n or q with a c12 n or q. Do you know if Ted Webers copys of Jensens are better than Jensens?
For blues, Will I get more natural breakup if I use 50w of speakers w/ 50w of amp or 100w of speakers with 50w of amp? Thanks.
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
i thought the greenback was 97db? maybe the new chinese ones are more efficient?
ted makes better speakers than the new jensens. they new ones arent bad but they arent as nice as the old jensens or teds stuff.
most 50's fender amps used alnico speakers, in the 60's most 12" were ceramic but with 10" there was still some CTS alnico being used, especially in super reverbs. the best sounding bf supers ive heard, not counting derek trucks who has pile drivers, had alnico speakers.
the mix of alnico and ceramic can be very cool
i thought the greenback was 97db? maybe the new chinese ones are more efficient?
ted makes better speakers than the new jensens. they new ones arent bad but they arent as nice as the old jensens or teds stuff.
most 50's fender amps used alnico speakers, in the 60's most 12" were ceramic but with 10" there was still some CTS alnico being used, especially in super reverbs. the best sounding bf supers ive heard, not counting derek trucks who has pile drivers, had alnico speakers.
the mix of alnico and ceramic can be very cool
Luke Duke
PRSlustologist
Re: Which Speakers should I get???
The V30 isn't going to give you old school blues tone. It'll be a GOOD tone, but not old school sounding. 1 V30 and 1 H30 balance well because both are 100dB efficient
Ted Weber's are MUCH MUCH better IMO.
Lower power handling makes for more breakup, also known as comb filtering.
From Ted Weber
efficiency---When converting from one form of energy to another, there is always some loss, so we express it as a measure of efficiency. In the case of loudspeakers, we are converting electrical power to acoustic power. Most loudspeakers are very inefficient, on the order of 1% or less. The rest of the power is turned into heat. See DB for more information on speaker efficiencies.
dB--- First and foremost, the term DB is dimensionless. You can use the term DB to express the differences between any two quantities, as long as you know what you are comparing. The term decibel, or DB, was first used by telephone pioneers to determine losses and gains of power in telephone circuits. It is simply a method of compressing large numbers into a more manageable, simple form. It is convenient for us to use the term DB and the math used to define it, since it is based on a logarithmic scale well suited to human hearing, which itself is logarithmic rather than linear in its behavior. Basically, the scale is compressed by representing the square of a number by only a doubling of the DB number representing it. For instance, a 10db change would be ten to the first power, or simply ten times. 20db would be ten to the second power, or ten squared (that's where the '2' in 20 comes from) or one hundred times. 40db, then, would be ten to the fourth power, or ten thousand times (10x10x10x10). As you can see, we can now represent any quantity between 10 and 10,000 with the numbers 10 through 40.
In the case of loudspeakers, we test a speaker by placing a microphone exactly one meter in front of the speaker. If we had a perfect speaker, we could drive it with one watt of electrical power and the microphone would have one watt of acoustical power impressed upon it. This would give us a reading of 112db. Of course, speakers are very inefficient, most being in the range of 1% efficient or less. So, you typically see speakers rated at 92db, 96db, 98db, etc. Let's do an exercise in comparing DB levels and speaker efficiencies. Let's say you have a speaker that is rated at 102db SPL and I have one that is rated at 92db SPL. We know that a perfect speaker is 112db. Yours is 102db. That's a difference of 10db, or 10%,(112-102) so your speaker is 10% efficient. Mine, on the other hand is 92db, a difference of 20db, or 1%, (112-92), so my speaker is only 1% efficient. That means your speaker is 10 times more efficient than mine. If we put 5 watts into both of our speakers, yours would sound twice as loud as mine.
The average human ear perceives a doubling in volume when the power has been increased by 10db. As difficult as it may be to believe, this means that as you are playing your guitar at a comfortable level of, say, 4 watts from your amp, you would have to turn your amp up to put out 40 watts for you to perceive a doubling in volume. This is often confused with 3db, which is a doubling of power, not a doubling of perceived loudness.
bjeans79 said:
The V30 isn't going to give you old school blues tone. It'll be a GOOD tone, but not old school sounding. 1 V30 and 1 H30 balance well because both are 100dB efficient
Ted Weber's are MUCH MUCH better IMO.
Lower power handling makes for more breakup, also known as comb filtering.
joelap said:
From Ted Weber
efficiency---When converting from one form of energy to another, there is always some loss, so we express it as a measure of efficiency. In the case of loudspeakers, we are converting electrical power to acoustic power. Most loudspeakers are very inefficient, on the order of 1% or less. The rest of the power is turned into heat. See DB for more information on speaker efficiencies.
dB--- First and foremost, the term DB is dimensionless. You can use the term DB to express the differences between any two quantities, as long as you know what you are comparing. The term decibel, or DB, was first used by telephone pioneers to determine losses and gains of power in telephone circuits. It is simply a method of compressing large numbers into a more manageable, simple form. It is convenient for us to use the term DB and the math used to define it, since it is based on a logarithmic scale well suited to human hearing, which itself is logarithmic rather than linear in its behavior. Basically, the scale is compressed by representing the square of a number by only a doubling of the DB number representing it. For instance, a 10db change would be ten to the first power, or simply ten times. 20db would be ten to the second power, or ten squared (that's where the '2' in 20 comes from) or one hundred times. 40db, then, would be ten to the fourth power, or ten thousand times (10x10x10x10). As you can see, we can now represent any quantity between 10 and 10,000 with the numbers 10 through 40.
In the case of loudspeakers, we test a speaker by placing a microphone exactly one meter in front of the speaker. If we had a perfect speaker, we could drive it with one watt of electrical power and the microphone would have one watt of acoustical power impressed upon it. This would give us a reading of 112db. Of course, speakers are very inefficient, most being in the range of 1% efficient or less. So, you typically see speakers rated at 92db, 96db, 98db, etc. Let's do an exercise in comparing DB levels and speaker efficiencies. Let's say you have a speaker that is rated at 102db SPL and I have one that is rated at 92db SPL. We know that a perfect speaker is 112db. Yours is 102db. That's a difference of 10db, or 10%,(112-102) so your speaker is 10% efficient. Mine, on the other hand is 92db, a difference of 20db, or 1%, (112-92), so my speaker is only 1% efficient. That means your speaker is 10 times more efficient than mine. If we put 5 watts into both of our speakers, yours would sound twice as loud as mine.
The average human ear perceives a doubling in volume when the power has been increased by 10db. As difficult as it may be to believe, this means that as you are playing your guitar at a comfortable level of, say, 4 watts from your amp, you would have to turn your amp up to put out 40 watts for you to perceive a doubling in volume. This is often confused with 3db, which is a doubling of power, not a doubling of perceived loudness.
