Who here has long nails for classical?

[guitarrob]

I have been getting more and more into playing classical pieces just for my own enjoyment but I have short nails.
A friend who plays said that if I want to get the most out of this playing style, I would have to grow and prepare my nails properly for classical guitar.

So, how many around here have the nails for proper classical playing?
If I go ahead and do the nails, does it improve the tone of the playing alot?
Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
I hope this is the right thread for such a discussion.

 

[blueman335]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

If you have long nails, you're breaking and ripping them all the time. Real men have short nails.

 

[drew_half_empty]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

I once had a grad school performance major girl tell me that she could always tell the serious guitar players cause they had nails

I have em, they're great, improve tone and accuracy a lot.

If you need advice on shaping them or whatever shoot me a PM

 

[uOpt]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

I have been getting more and more into playing classical pieces just for my own enjoyment but I have short nails.
A friend who plays said that if I want to get the most out of this playing style, I would have to grow and prepare my nails properly for classical guitar.

So, how many around here have the nails for proper classical playing?
If I go ahead and do the nails, does it improve the tone of the playing alot?
Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.
I hope this is the right thread for such a discussion.

I have them. I use fingerpicking on electrical guitars, too.

The tone out of a classical and even the electrical guitar from the nails is utterly superior compared to using the soft fingertip.

The way to not have them break is not to make the front round like the finger is. The front should be more or less (not completely) straight. That way they rip much less often. And don't let them grow longer than necessary.

I do wear protective gloves when messing with horses, tools and the like. But for a guitarist (or anybody for that matter) that is good advise.

 

[TheLivingDead]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

I'll never be able to grow those kinds of nails. Let a lone a normal length. I bite mine, daily.

 

[guitarrob]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

So it seems they are a good idea then. I will grow them out and shape then and see how they work out. I have bee looking over a bunch of info on properly shaping them and various opinions on the subject. It seems most are in agreement that fingernails are required here and improve your tone so much.

 

[Edgecrusher]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

I once had a grad school performance major girl tell me that she could always tell the serious guitar players cause they had nails

I have em, they're great, improve tone and accuracy a lot.

If you need advice on shaping them or whatever shoot me a PM

Though you mean this only for classical guitar right?

My nails are way too brittle to try and use my right index finger is usually perpetually cracked from digging into the strings already and thats not even on purpose.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

i play classical solo style for a living. also teach at a conservatorium and got my Associate from Trinity College London in Classical Guitar recital years ago.
YES! you need nails - but they dont need to be long per se....its really the shape that is important.
You really want the nail shaped in such a way that when you are playing both apoyando and tirando that the string tone is a combination of flesh and nail.
Pure flesh and its difficult to get the dexterity and clarity, too much nail and it just sounds bright, clicky and thin.
I have acrylic nails, but i will be the first to admit that they dont sound as good as natural nails, however an acrylic nail sounds a whole lot better than a broken nail, and i have weak nails. I reccomend using daily some of the commercial hand and nail creams. It stops them drying out and splitting and it keeps the fingertips smooth.
Here's my second disclaimer about why i use acrylics....cos i play all my classical stuff on a 175 (i know - im no purist) because playing 4 hour hotel gigs i found that it suits my purposes better for the other solo fingerstyle stuff im playing (jazz stadards etc). The beauty of the electric is that while i lose a lot of what makes classical guitar really interesting is that my hands do not get sore after long sessions, and it allows another range of expressive techniques that are difficult purely playing Nylon. But the steel strings do chew up real nails faster. At least with electric there is always the option of rolling off the treble.
So yeah - grow the nails a little. Segovia recommended not too long - just hold your hand up palm inwards facing your face at eye level. You should only just be able to see the tips of the nails following the natural curve of your finger. Of course every serious classical player has his or her own theory on nails, and we all get a bit obsessive about it, but Segovias is a good basic ball park concept. Thumb needs to be curved and long/shaped enough so that it does not snag, but will allow a great rabge of timbral expression with a change in thumb angle.
Hope this helps!

 

[Mincer]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

I play classical music with a pick and fingers, using the flesh part of my fingers. Yeah, it isn't traditional, but either is anything else I play.

 

[Jessie's ghost]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

I flat-pick the mother****er.

 

[Ashurbanipal]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

i play classical solo style for a living. also teach at a conservatorium and got my Associate from Trinity College London in Classical Guitar recital years ago.
YES! you need nails - but they dont need to be long per se....its really the shape that is important.
You really want the nail shaped in such a way that when you are playing both apoyando and tirando that the string tone is a combination of flesh and nail.
Pure flesh and its difficult to get the dexterity and clarity, too much nail and it just sounds bright, clicky and thin.
I have acrylic nails, but i will be the first to admit that they dont sound as good as natural nails, however an acrylic nail sounds a whole lot better than a broken nail, and i have weak nails. I reccomend using daily some of the commercial hand and nail creams. It stops them drying out and splitting and it keeps the fingertips smooth.
Here's my second disclaimer about why i use acrylics....cos i play all my classical stuff on a 175 (i know - im no purist) because playing 4 hour hotel gigs i found that it suits my purposes better for the other solo fingerstyle stuff im playing (jazz stadards etc). The beauty of the electric is that while i lose a lot of what makes classical guitar really interesting is that my hands do not get sore after long sessions, and it allows another range of expressive techniques that are difficult purely playing Nylon. But the steel strings do chew up real nails faster. At least with electric there is always the option of rolling off the treble.
So yeah - grow the nails a little. Segovia recommended not too long - just hold your hand up palm inwards facing your face at eye level. You should only just be able to see the tips of the nails following the natural curve of your finger. Of course every serious classical player has his or her own theory on nails, and we all get a bit obsessive about it, but Segovias is a good basic ball park concept. Thumb needs to be curved and long/shaped enough so that it does not snag, but will allow a great rabge of timbral expression with a change in thumb angle.
Hope this helps!

This ^^.

I have them. A lot of people make the mistake of growing them too long so they flex and are thus prone to breaking. When I got a steel string, I thought this would happen all the time but they hold up. Just a hair over finger tip length is a good starting point, but there are endless possibilities, partly because everyone's hands are different and people hold their hand at slightly different angles when playing. As an example, Slava Grigoryan grows his a bit longer and then files them at an angle for the part that hits the string.

For dynamics and overall control of tone, having them is far superior, I think, to using just flesh.

Bit of interesting trivia - the great Tarrega played without nails.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

True about tarrega - but only towards the end of his life. He once said "you cannot create a living not with dead flesh" He spent his whole life experimenting tho.
There are no real rules - its just about being expressive - and having the facility to achieve the musical effect you are after with nothing more than your hands.


Still....guitars were a different shape back in Tarregas time, and the strings were different too. Since Torres, classicals have gained a lot more bottom end and volume. Strings have gone from gut to silk wrapped in steel and nylon was invented too! Barrios played with steel strings fwiw. Its gone to a whole other level with the modern lattice braced guitars and the use of carbon fiber etc.
Classical guitar technique is constantly evolving....for example look at the difference between john williams and julian Bream. If you want to see a perfect example of the differences between the more old fashioned segovia style and the 'jellyfish' that the modern classical players tend towards, look up a video of them both playing together.
Bream has a more expansive tone, but Williams is effortless. Both players have an amazing breadth of expression in their playing tho, but with different processes and outcomes.

Slava - yes great player, but to me his tone when compared to some of the aforementioned players - or even his australian contemporary Karin Schaupp - can be somewehat brittle.

while im blabbing on....i want to mention Australia's contribution to classical guitar. John williams learned in his younger days from a fellow called Sigmund Jorgensen - in a small place near Melbourne called 'Montsalvat'. I grew up just a block away. I heard John Williams play in the great hall at Motsalvat when he was making a series of films for the BBC.
John also was a pioneer in the use of lattice braced guitars in the concert hall. The lattice concept and the maker of the guitars Williams still uses is a fella called Greg Smallman - who has been building these things in the blue mountains - where coincidentally i live now. If you want to buy a smallman guitar, lets just say that they make custom shop gibsons and even deAngelicos look very cheap! Classical guitar is very dear to my heart, and so are these places in Australia. I just wanted to share that with you all cos i know the vast majority of players on this forum are from the US, and im sure would assume that most of the innovations in the classical sphere are coming from europe.
BTW - if anyone here is visiting australia, i have plenty of room if you want somewhere to stay for a few days.

ps: how cool is this? we are talking about nails and tone production on a pickup forum!
long live the SD forum.

 

[guitarrob]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

We aren't that far off as it is a guitar sub-forum. Varied discussion should be what this place strives for.

 

[Hellion]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

I have acrylics on four fingers of my right hand. I like them a lot. I don't play a lot of classical, but when I do, there's a definite difference between the sound of a nail vs a fingertip. I have them primarily because I play 12 string about 90% of the time and I beat the hell out of the guitar. Unprotected nails just get ripped up and shredded. Plus I use them to do my bastard-style arpeggio style, too.

 

[guitarrob]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

I think acrylics might be the way for me also. Especially when I am still in the beginner phases because I will rip real ones off. Until I get a more proficient right handed technique.

I would think there can be a great variations in tone between using full nail and using different amounts of the finger tip with the nail. If that makes sense...

 

[phil_104]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

If you have long nails, you're breaking and ripping them all the time. Real men have short nails.

Gotta love an informed, constructive comment to kick the responses to a thread.

Ok, with that said, I have long nails on my right hand, on all fingers. I play in a rock band. For heavy chord songs, I'll use picks, and just hammer away. But on the other half of our songs, I'll do more complex things, most of which include some form of adapted classical right hand technique applied on the electric guitar.

I've never had a problem with breakage. To me, people who will tell you that natural nails directly mean broken and ripped nails when playing guitar is as ridiculous as someone warning you against fretting with your finger tips, because they'll get tender and blistery. Do they break at first? Sure. They won't be used to it. Playing an instrument is not something that comes overnight, having a callus on each finger tip doesn't just happen, and strong, well shaped nails don't just happen overnight.

If you are serious about using your nails, here is my advise. Firstly, be aware that you're body will adapt, and don't give up on it quickly. Secondly, learn to properly shape the nail. As mentioned earlier in this thread, this will allow the string to be struck properly, and will not only improve the attack and tone of your picking, but also the wear on your nails. With proper nail care and determination, you will get great guitar nails over time. Once you are set into a routine, it's all maintenance. Invest in a good nail care kit. Shape them regularly, they are now part of your sound and technique. Keep doing this. After a while, you're nails will grow at a faster rate, and will get rediculously strong.

I've been doing this since the 7th grade, so for... about... 10 years or so now I would guess. I can't bite through my nails, or rip them with my teeth if I try. I would chip a tooth first. Don't be discouraged, keep on keeping on, and maybe you'll find it's for you. If not, at least you gave it a fair shot.

 

[phil_104]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

I think acrylics might be the way for me also. Especially when I am still in the beginner phases because I will rip real ones off. Until I get a more proficient right handed technique.

I would think there can be a great variations in tone between using full nail and using different amounts of the finger tip with the nail. If that makes sense...

I would give naturals a shot before jumping strait to acrylics. Having something over your natural nail will weaken it, from my experience. If you see that you're body isn't growing nails that stand up to the guitar after a while, then reconsider it as an option.

As for technique, it opens up a ENTIRE new universe of tones and attacks from your right hand.

Enjoy!

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

I would give naturals a shot before jumping strait to acrylics. Having something over your natural nail will weaken it, from my experience. If you see that you're body isn't growing nails that stand up to the guitar after a while, then reconsider it as an option.

As for technique, it opens up a ENTIRE new universe of tones and attacks from your right hand.

Enjoy!

Phil is right. Real nails sound and feel better.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

while you are on this right hand thing tho.....
buy yourself a book called OPUS 1A STUDIES FOR GUITAR by MAURO GIULIANI
its a series of 120 excercises for your right hand, and a bunch of studied for your left.
Its like steroids for fingestylists.
Start off slow, and follow the rh fingerings religiously. Go for clarity and articulation over speed. Each practice session, start at number one and go until you make mistakes. By the time you can play all 120 one after the other with no mistakes, you will be well on the way to developing a good right hand. After that, its all just repetition and relaxation.

 

[Will S-T]

Re: Who here has long nails for classical?

Yes, Yes and Yes to everything gibson175 has said.

I come from a Flamenco background and spent my late teens in Spain
at the Madrid Conservatorioum and the Amor de Dios dance Academy in the early 80's.

Practicing 3 to 4 hours a day and working as second or third guitarist
playing for the Flamenco dance classes another 4 hours to make
some beer money, and pick up dancers, of course:friday:

The wear and tear on my nails was phenomenal, to the point where
I first used acrylic nails and then super glue and tissues.

WTF you say? Yes indeed gents. The common practice at the time,
at least for alot of Flamenco dudes was to rebuild a broken nail,
lengthen a worn one or strengthen a weak nail using super glue
and a layer or layers of tissue paper. Then you would file and
polish to shape. I can fix a nail in less than a couple of minutes and this
proved invaluable throughout my professional career in the 80's and 90's
when I was doing 3 to 4 half hour sets a night in restaurants
and in a Gypsy King/Latin big band. (Crappy **** BTW, listen to
Paco de Lucia for REAL Flamenco guitar!!)

Flamenco technique is much harder on your right hand than other
finger picking styles in that there is a greater proportion of strumming
compared to picking, and this at volumes that can keep up with
singers and dancers. The hardend strength of the super glue and tissue
makes for a bright attack on both the down and up strokes and can be
compensated for on the picking side by the amount of finger tip is used.

Hell, I'm gonna get myself a glass of red and play me a Bulerias:friday: