Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

[PFDarkside]

I'm curious who uses any sort of MIDI controlled rig, Programmable Looper (to provide presets) or any other bank/patch type system? I've been a pedalboard into amp guy forever, but I still am not well versed at the tap dancing routine.

75% of the songs I/we play are riding the volume control and maybe stepping on a boost for a solo or chorus, but the remainder I'm changing ~3 things to go from verse to chorus or breakdown to lead. (Verse may be light OD, Phaser and spacey delay, verse is distortion, no phaser and slapback or no delay)

My intimidation factor is that this seems awfully overkill for most of the time. For those using any style of bank/patch switching, are you basically "living" in BANK 1 with something like:
PATCH 1 - Clean
PATCH 2 - Rhythm 1
PATCH 3 - Rhythm 2
PATCH 4 - Lead

And then setting up other banks for when you need more elaborate switching? Does BANK 2 become Patches for Song ABC , BANK 3 become patches for Song XYZ, etc.?

Feel free to showcase your rig and how you use it here, I'm really curious how to straddle the line of wanting a little more than a basic pedalboard but not into the NASA racks of 80's/90's Gilmour.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

You all have NASA size pedal boards nowadays!!
And now MIDI.....
Oh the blessed MIDI

 

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

My (antiquated) MIDI Controller's on the blink,I sure do miss my rack system...

I like being able to hit a single switch to change gain structures & effects,then having a pedal(or 2) to adjust parameters...

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

I used a Rocktron PatchMate for a year or two. Was a great relief every time I needed to switch two pedals, even switching one off and another on. It was well worth it if you play out a lot. It was expensive and a bit heavy on the board, but so easy to use and made live playing so much smoother. I bought mine used and one channel started to not light up (it worked, but didn't indicate when it was on), then the output fried somehow and made noise so I had to take it off the board. Still want a channel switcher, but don't have the money now. (They are all in the > $400 range roughly).

 

[Mincer]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

I use a midi rig for guitar/guitar synth and looping. A midi footcontroller selects sounds on the Fractal, as well as the synth. It controls the functions of the looper, and also triggers bass pedals (in the synth), too- so I can play low notes with my feet. Everything goes into a mixer and goes straight to the PA.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

But how do you/did you configure your bank/patch assignments (and how do you remember them when they exceed half a dozen?)

 

[XSSIVE]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

That's the beauty of midi and loop switchers, you can do whatever YOU need with them. If you want each bank to be songs it can be. If you want just core sounds (clean, crunch, lead) and instant access to pedals as if you were just stomping on the pedal itself you can do that. If you want banks of presets per song and instant access to pedals for random times when you feel like a lead that normally doesn't have a phaser needs a phaser, you can do that too. All that is based on the particular midi switcher and it's features of course. Sky is nearly the limit with midi bypass looping setups and they're very much an ignorance is bliss item you don't think you need 'til you use one and never want to go back. I never thought I wanted to deal with midi and didn't need it 'til I built my first midi rig and now, there's no way in hell I'd ever go back. Being able to step on one button that will change amp channels, add a drive, add a delay and verb or something, then step on one another button to change channels again, add a chorus for clean tones or whatever is far better than a random pile of pedals you need to turn on and off multiples of while also needing to change amp channels. As for remembering them, most midi control units (at least the ones worth buying) have LCD displays that let you name presets so if you created banks based on song like in your example you just scroll to "Mustang Sally" and you're good to go for that song lol.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

But how do you/did you configure your bank/patch assignments (and how do you remember them when they exceed half a dozen?)

When I was playing a known, fixed set list, each patch would be a song, song section or solo sound (made up of an amp sound, specific optional delay and reverb) and I'd simply go left to right 1,2,3,4,etc. through the set list. Otherwise, if playing in a sit-in / jam situation, I just would have each patch be a sound I liked to use. To remember what each was, I use removable tape and a black Sharpie pen, like marking channels on a mixing desk. If using banks, either run two strips, or write smaller and write two rows on one strip of tape.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

not since around 1991.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

But how do you/did you configure your bank/patch assignments (and how do you remember them when they exceed half a dozen?)

I have 100 preset slots. I remember them all. By lots of practice. The top row is always my looper controls: record, overdub, multiply insert, undo. The bottom row are either synth presets or guitar effect presets, and the last 2 banks are bass notes. It isn't that hard really.

 

[PFDarkside]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

What controller do you use Mincer?

 

[Kruspe]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

FCB1010 straight to the kemper, i may get the kemper remote actually i think that one is lil better..

But to the midi and pedal board :

I love racks and honestly dont understand the whole pedal thing if you are trying to achieve good sound for good money.
Pedals are great for very very simple setup you need one or 2 effects and nothing else ? -> go for small pedal board.
Do you need something more complex, switch channels, switch more effects at the same time control volume etc, more profi setup and dont want to dance on pedal board ? -> rack.

I dont see why people buying the big pedal boards, they spend big money 1 or 2K just of stompboxed when they can get the same or better sound with 300 dollar lexicon unit 1U rack that is controllable via midi by default and you click on one button and have exactly what you wanted. I realize its a lot of settings etc and its easier to setup pedal, but, if you play live, you will see that you need to put a lot of duck tape to keep the pedal board settings at one place, almost impossible on tour, that solution is not reliable at all.

Another thing that i dont understand is the cables, i just switched to wireless guitar connection and i can tell you that this change my sound so much, it became much better signal now i have top end, i used to play on 15 feet cable and i realized that there is soo much loss on the cable that the signal that goes to the amp is already ****ed before even playing anything.
Same with pedal board but multiply by 100, when you have bigger pedal board, there is a lot of cables and not just that, the pedals each have different input/output levels, what that means is that even though your guitar cable signal was pretty ok, before it reaches the amp, you signal loses all top end and will be most likely so altered that the amp will sound like ****.

Give you example, I was on the show where the guy have big pedal board, he plugged in and the sound was already bad, as soon as he stomp some pedals, it couldnt hear anything just bass and drums, another band didnt have pedal board and plugged straight to the amp, i could hear every single note.

This is what i like about the rack, very good organized, minimal cable management, consistency and same sound every single time, this is something that the pedal board cannot give, just cant.

Also, pedals are much more expensive than rack units a very good pedal board is at least 1K dollars, for that money you can have all effect on the planet midi control and still save some money.


If you like Pedals so much but see the rack is better thing, put those pedals in the rack and use them there, again much better solution that have it on ground, you eliminate cable and the settings are pretty damn good kept all the time since you are not manipulating with the pedal inside the rack so much.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

I love racks and honestly dont understand the whole pedal thing if you are trying to achieve good sound for good money.
Pedals are great for very very simple setup you need one or 2 effects and nothing else ? -> go for small pedal board.
Do you need something more complex, switch channels, switch more effects at the same time control volume etc, more profi setup and dont want to dance on pedal board ? -> rack.

I dont see why people buying the big pedal boards, they spend big money 1 or 2K just of stompboxed when they can get the same or better sound with 300 dollar lexicon unit 1U rack that is controllable via midi by default and you click on one button and have exactly what you wanted. I realize its a lot of settings etc and its easier to setup pedal, but, if you play live, you will see that you need to put a lot of duck tape to keep the pedal board settings at one place, almost impossible on tour, that solution is not reliable at all.

I have rack gear, but if playing locally I can hang the pedalboard on one shoulder, hang the guitar on the other shoulder and wheel the amp in - all in just one move. It's efficient and fast to set up. With a rack of gear, the rack and the amp are heavy, I've got to make multiple trips to load in, and it's got a much larger stage footprint that I often do not have to spare.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

FCB1010 straight to the kemper, i may get the kemper remote actually i think that one is lil better..

I've never used that controller, but I've heard that it's pretty good for the price. I think Mincer mentioned using it as well, but I'm not sure.

I used to use a Ground Control Pro when I had a midi loop switcher. It's a bit expensive, but it's also bulletproof and dead-easy to program.

Lastly I call bullsh*t on a rack being a less expensive option. Between a rack case costing at least $100-200, $250+ for a loop switcher, and $100+ for a controller, the only pedalboard that costs more can double as an aircraft carrier.


Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[Kruspe]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

I've never used that controller, but I've heard that it's pretty good for the price. I think Mincer mentioned using it as well, but I'm not sure.

I used to use a Ground Control Pro when I had a midi loop switcher. It's a bit expensive, but it's also bulletproof and dead-easy to program.

Lastly I call bullsh*t on a rack being a less expensive option. Between a rack case costing at least $100-200, $250+ for a loop switcher, and $100+ for a controller, the only pedalboard that costs more can double as an aircraft carrier.


Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Well, depends what exactly you want, but i am looking on it this way :

Good pedal board : 100 - 200 for the pedal train
Effects to have at least reverb delay phase maybe compressor -> 70 reverb , 110 delay 90 phase compressor 100
Cables -> 50
good distortion ->150
Midi control for pedal board 200 if you have more effects -> 300

See i think the pedal board is much more expensive in what you are getting ... Lexicon used 150 dollars can do the same thing like that pedal board and costs 150 to 200 and is extremely light..

I have rack gear, but if playing locally I can hang the pedalboard on one shoulder, hang the guitar on the other shoulder and wheel the amp in - all in just one move. It's efficient and fast to set up. With a rack of gear, the rack and the amp are heavy, I've got to make multiple trips to load in, and it's got a much larger stage footprint that I often do not have to spare.

Also,
I used to have valve amps in the rack, it was really heavy and i support that thing that this is too heavy, thats why i used kemper because its so light and play same as the valve amps..

Honestly, having a good preamp and transistor power amp for 200 dollars that weights 10 pounds and you are in very similar sound territory as a good power amp with that same preamp, also .. when playing live, nobody gives a **** since your cab has mic and the sound guy knows nothing about what he is doing there )

 

[Kruspe]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

Forgot to add that if you build your rack solution well, its very very compact, you put rack guitars even the midi switch on the rack and you wheel it directly to the stage no problem, also it looks very sexy..



Here is my setup, i go directly without mic and the sound guy loves me, this also gives me ability to be louder on stage and have more feel of the big sound since the output of the torpedo is always -4dB so the sound guy wont have the mic blown into the space

 

[Rand-O-Monium]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

Lastly I call bullsh*t on a rack being a less expensive option. Between a rack case costing at least $100-200, $250+ for a loop switcher, and $100+ for a controller, the only pedalboard that costs more can double as an aircraft carrier.

"Kinda" +1.

By the time you figure pre-amp(s) & outboard FX unit(s) + a Pwr Amp,you're getting up there.Plus mapping/programming time.

I sorta lucked out when I went rack. Bought a brand-newly released Rocktron Voodu Valve,& it's been all that & more for me.
Figured I'd get something I could grow into as time goes/went by,without having to re-invest.

.02

 

[Kruspe]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

You know guys i like pedals as well, but from my experience i am really getting the same result all the time.
As musician i really need only :

Good sound that is consistent and doesnt change, pedeal board cannot give you this, that just not going to happen, its too complex and complicated to deliver consistency.

The less things and cable you have the better, the crazy big racks, same thing you cant get a good sound with that beast because the signal is so altered and changed before it hits the loudspeaker that there is nothing left anymore.

The only reason for me, to have the rack is the consistency, being able to wheel that thing on stage flip the on button and PLAY, nothing to setup no cables no settings plug your midi board speaker cable and you are done.

I used to have pedal board and every single time i had to find the sound since all the knobs were completely out of settings because of transport also problems with cable i spend 15 minutes figuring why it doesnt play, my gear got a lot of scratches because it was not compact for transport since you have 5 piece of gear you need to load.

This way i have one unit that i plug into power socket plug midi board into it (1 midi cable), plug speaker if i need and start it.. I am done in 2 minutes and fully ready.
WITH what most important THE SAME SOUND i did have before (without mic on your cab, you always have the same sound)

 

[Mincer]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

I use the FCB1010 with the UnO firmware, which really unlocks what it can do. The whole package is cheap but sturdy, and I beat the hell out of mine over 10 years of gigs and travelling. You get 100 patches, and a patch can consist of a huge number of things. This all being said, I've been always trying to get my rig down smaller and smaller, which means you have to make decisions. I don't want to give functionality up, but I also don't want to hang on to a way of doing things that can be improved on. So I am deciding what features in a complex rig I want, and what new ones I can use. It would be great if it ends up being just a pedal or 2 and no rack (that thing is heavy), and it looks like it might, but I don't know for sure until I dive in.

 

[dystrust]

Re: Who here uses MIDI, Programmable looper or any bank/patch system live?

Well, depends what exactly you want, but i am looking on it this way :

Good pedal board : 100 - 200 for the pedal train
Effects to have at least reverb delay phase maybe compressor -> 70 reverb , 110 delay 90 phase compressor 100
Cables -> 50
good distortion ->150
Midi control for pedal board 200 if you have more effects -> 300

See i think the pedal board is much more expensive in what you are getting ... Lexicon used 150 dollars can do the same thing like that pedal board and costs 150 to 200 and is extremely light..

Lexicon doesn't make a decent guitar-oriented processor; they're designed for PA or studio work. I'd know because I tried to use both an MPX-550 and MX-200 in a guitar rack. The 550 sounded pretty good and switched quickly, but was quite limited as far as processing power and simultaneous effects. The MX200 would run two effects at most, switched very slowly, and it muted during switching. That means that your guitar rig would be 100% silent during a patch change unless you had a line mixer or parallel loop for effects. Rackmount multi-effects also don't include any boost functionality; you'd need a loop switcher and a few pedals for that.