WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

[blueman335]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

59s really are not good for Les Pauls, they really shine in guitars like Strats, Teles and SG's though. I find the Jazz and Alnico II Pro humbuckers to be perfect for Les Pauls.

With mag swaps, '59's work much better in LP's. An UOA5 in the bridge gives it more warmth, mids, and texture, along with less low end. A4's are popular here for '59N's. Agree with both other statements: A2P's are great in LP's (I like them much better than PG's), and stock '59's being a better fit in SG's.

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

I guess I've had some different experiences, or perhaps just the issues are more complex with these pickups than people's descriptions. I've had both these sets in a Gibson Les Paul Studio and a Gibson SG.

'59s don't sound scooped to me in either guitar. The bridge is perfectly serviceable for 1970's AC/DC type rock music. Drives a Marshall just fine. Cleans up with volume control just fine. The '59 neck seems to have some kind of comb filter problem - not scooped but rather particular narrow frequencies missing/weak. If they sound scooped, my first question would be what amp/settings folks are using.

Whole Lottas have a complex sound. It's not enough to talk about output gain or scooped. The mV / tone values on those charts are meaningless in my experience because even if they are higher output or not, I can swap '59s with WLH and not alter my gain settings - they both drive the amp at about the same level, distortion onset is at about the same point. But what is different is the WLH has a fuzzy, compressed, loose, sloppy bass type of distortion - same guitar, same amp, same settings, same setup (string gauge, distance from strings, etc.), just swapping pickups only. Meanwhile, the WLH neck has a great chime to it when the volume is rolled off to clean, but turns into a bassy jazz pickup while turning up and distorts in a nice buzzy/fuzz way when dimed on the guitar.

The '59s sound about the same while the guitar volume is turned up or down, however the WLHs character changes slightly while turning the volume up and down on the guitar, in my experience. And that's not a bad thing. Every sound they make is a good one.

 

[Studioplayer]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

I've had a set of '59s in my Les Paul for about 12 years. What users have posted above about tone characteristics are about what I've experienced too. The bass can get a bit too much in the neck, but only sometimes. It depends on how the amp is dialed in. If you don't tweak the amp's midrange, the neck '59 will have a scoop'd tone. If the neck's 6th. string side is raised up too much.....mud takes over. I have my neck bass side as "borderline mud". Due to the styles I play (including Jazz/chord Melody) it works for me somehow.

With respect to the '59 bridge, I suppose it can be described as sounding "generic". I judge it as to what kind of "middle position" tone I get. My middle tone is acceptable, but I can't help but wonder if I put a bridge WLH pickup in its' place whether the result would really be worth it. The '59 bridge by itself can get some quack tone and I judge it to be an versatile pickup, but nothing out of the ordinary.

Studioplayer

 

[LtKojak]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

I just can't say enough about mag-swapping '59s.

It's the one model I've performed most mods by far. If you ask me, the A5 is the LEAST good-sounding of all.

A4 and A3 are, for my taste, the best-sounding in the '59 neck, and so are A4, UOA5 and A8 in the bridge.

It's a shame that so many people, even in this very Forum, although highly educated about tone, just don't "get" this simple fact of life.

Oh, well...

 

[blueman335]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

I just can't say enough about mag-swapping '59s.

It's the one model I've performed most mods by far. If you ask me, the A5 is the LEAST good-sounding of all.

A4 and A3 are, for my taste, the best-sounding in the '59 neck, and so are A4, UOA5 and A8 in the bridge.

+1. They work in some guitars, but would work in a lot more with different mags. With the stock A5's, they can be boomy in the neck, and bright and thin in the bridge. Those mags you listed are all improvements. Duncan should really offer '59's in more configurations with various mags. It's a great PU platform, but A5's are the least versatile.

I don't understand the 'Vintage Blues Set.' It would be much more bluesier and vintage sounding with an UOA5 in the bridge and an A4 in the neck. What a great set that would be, and it would work well in more guitars. For all the complaints about boomy '59N's, we could direct them to a stock model with an A4. As an avid blues player, I can't see using a '59B unless it has a warmer magnet to tame the treble and add some mids (which I've done to all of mine). The Vintage Blues Set in it's current form was a misstep that should be corrected.

 

[El Supremo]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

I don't understand the 'Vintage Blues Set.'

Actually, I think of them more as the PAF for rock and metal. The bridge version pulls that off quite nicely. The neck version performs pretty good in super strats.
They're a bit too bright and snappy for vintage blues imo, and using the tone control to correct that taste resulted in a rather muddy sound in my Les Paul. One of many reasons why I went WLH instead (which still does rock and metal great btw).

 

[blueman335]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

Actually, I think of them more as the PAF for rock and metal. The bridge version pulls that off quite nicely. The neck version performs pretty good in super strats.
They're a bit too bright and snappy for vintage blues imo, and using the tone control to correct that taste resulted in a rather muddy sound in my Les Paul. One of many reasons why I went WLH instead (which still does rock and metal great btw).

+1. That's where '59's are better-suited.

 

[Aceman]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

I find the Whole Lotta discussion very interesting. I see a WHole Lotta Love for them these days. No doubt is it has a portion of "new thing" factor. But clearly it is a tasty tonal choice.

After some of the reads, it really sounds to me like it is similar to my 9k Pearly Gates Bridge. Very interesting Discussion.

Everyone's tonal ear is different. One man's "Boom" is another man's Big and Solid. One man's thin is another man's cut.

And as always….someone up there mentioned a few serious quality minutes with a screwdriver can do wonders, and amps do differ. Modelling amps are really great at showing you that.

Remember this about a Les Paul kids: It is a mid-pushing guitar. Scooped EQ's generally should give you an even tone. Then you do the rest from the amp, to taste!

And as per Pepe - I took a set of 59-ish pups, and did the A3/UOA5 mod…WOW! Vintage city. That Les Paul sounded old school friction' fantastic. But it was certainly no longer a hard rocker. I'd go straight 59's for that.

 

[matt239]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

... Everyone's tonal ear is different. One man's "Boom" is another man's Big and Solid. One man's thin is another man's cut. ..

Indeed. I usually like a lot of bass content in my guitar sound. - It makes a huge difference WHICH bass frequencies are emphasized. I've always found it handy to have a graphic EQ, or some sweepable tone controls somewhere in the chain..

- Depends a lot on your guitar-amp-SPEAKERS too, and the power of your amp. - If you're using efficient, but low powered, "vintage-y" speakers, they can start to "woof-out" kinda early. Likewise a lower powered amp can get mushy with too much bass. (Not that those kind of speakers and amps aren't great for lot's of sounds..)
-But if you use a 80W or 100W amp, 70W or grater speakers, with stiffer suspensions, -you can have more low end while still keeping it tight.

I do tend to go for a bit of a scooped tone I guess. Not "V-curve" metal scooped.. I try to make sure there's still some mids in there somewhere.. - again, depends WHICH mids.. I tend to cut around 450Hz and boost around 1.25kHz...

In the '80s & '90s I used to use a lot of gear marketed as "good for metal" - to play blues, classic rock, surf/spaghetti-western... with good result..

I know I like '59s stock pretty well, and I really like the sounds I've been hearing from Whole Lottas.. - May just have to have one guitar with each!..

Thanks for so many replies all.

 

[arya44]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

Hi there,
I just installed a Pearly Gates for bridge and 59 for neck. I found the bass doesn't match (Pearly low in bass, heavy in high-mid and 59 low in mid and heavy on bass) so I added a 0.047 micro farhad ceramic capacitor in series with the hot connector of the neck pickup (between the pickup and volume pot) and it sounds less bassy. I think bass was part of the character. I think Pearly Gates on the bridge has more character but I don't know character-wise if WLH has more of that high-mid sizzle and vocal throaty mids or neck Pearly Gates. I could be settled with 59+cap with some tweaking.
Has anyone tried comparing the neck 59+cap vs. WLH?

 

[Leon Of Late]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

I'm still trying to decide between a Slash set or a WLH set for my Dean. It's going to be my all around rock guitar. Both neck pickups being over 8k worries me. I have never liked a 59' in the neck of any guitar, but I need to try the magnet mod.

 

[Mincer]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

The Slash neck will have more bass and mids. The WLH neck is more scooped sounding. Output is about the same.

 

[blueman335]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

I'm still trying to decide between a Slash set or a WLH set for my Dean. It's going to be my all around rock guitar. Both neck pickups being over 8k worries me. I have never liked a 59' in the neck of any guitar, but I need to try the magnet mod.

I like neck HB's with plenty of clarity and some high-end bite, and would definitely take an A2PN over a Slash neck, paired with a Slash bridge.

WLH necks are pretty warm, warmer than I expected. They sound more like they have A2, rather than the A5 they do have. I may get a WLH neck one day and try it in the bridge slot.

'59N's can have a lot of low end in some woods/guitars.

 

[JB6464]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

What about a UOA5 in a 59N ?

 

[blueman335]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

What about a UOA5 in a 59N ?

Another nice choice. They'll have a little more high end, and a little less mids than an A2. Great for adding texture and color to your tone.

 

[Aceman]

Re: WHOLE LOTTA HUMBUCKER TONE VS. '59 TONE ??

Here is how I'm looking at this these days (opinion subject to change with time, experience and wisdom…)

Seths
59's

And right about here we branch.
- To the right, the PG…
- To the left, the A2P

Then WLH's

Then 59/Custom Hybrid

Then there is a Gap

Then the Custom


This is the tree of the PAF in power and tone