Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

[blueman335]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

SEYMOUR DUNCAN HUMBUCKERS

6 string - Sentient
6 string - Nazgul
6 string - Pegasus
Jason Becker - Perpetual Burn Humbucker
Black Winter
Mick Thomson Blackouts EMTY
Synyster Gates Invader
Gus G. FIRE Blackouts System
P-Rails
Full Shred
Dimebucker
Custom Five
JB Model
Duncan Custom
Duncan Distortion
Invader
Custom Custom
Alternative 8
Original Parallel Axis
Distortion Parallel Axis
Blues Saraceno Parallel Axis Model
Parallel Axis Single Coil Stack
Livewire Classic II Humbucker
Livewire Metal Humbucker
Dave Mustaine LiveWires
Blackouts
Blackouts Metal

Taking out the 7 & 8 string PU's, how many of the others have been around for a while? I've been seeing a lot of those PU names for years. It doesn't necessarily seem that Duncan has changed course and gone with a preponderance of new high output PU's. I'm into PAF's and have seen a lot of new introductions from a variety of manufacturers. But if you're not using PAF's, you may not notice that.

 

[DreX]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

I hope OP will do the right thing and close this thread before we see another ten incredulous posts pointing out how the subject contains on a faulty premise.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

I also think it is a bit of a myth these days that high output pickups lack treble. I know that used to be the case, but the black winters for example have a lot of treble. They are not very compressed either and they are hot. Personally, I like them for their sound clean or dirty. The slug is compressed, but not lacking in treble, but it defies a lot of stereotypes anyway. IMO the new duncan models like nazgul, and black winter have really turned the tables on what a hot pickup sounds like. It isn't the treble-less bassy compression one expects from a pickup.

I am not really metal, but the black winter is just a really solid, versatile and balanced humbucker. They also are not real forgiving either as they have a detailed high end.

Yeah. The DD also has a high-pitched scream to it, in fact it is my favorite awg44 pickup.

 

[Artie]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

This thread brings to mind the old movie "Key Largo". Bogie is trying to explain to the the others what Rocko, (Edward G. Robinson), wants.

"He wants more."

As we guitarists do.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

I hope OP will do the right thing and close this thread before we see another ten incredulous posts pointing out how the subject contains on a faulty premise.

Or instead you could just stay out?

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

I typically think of higher output pickups as having lots of treble...JB is bright, DD is bright, Dimebucker is bright...

But there are lot of factors that go into tone doh and output is kinda like horsepower in cars, just because you have a ton doesn't mean you need more for faster/more acceleration. My Charger has around 300 HP and is too fast for most roads I drive daily. A Charger Hellcat has over 400 HP more than mine, but both are still fast and have awesome acceleration.

 

[Jocelyn]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

I typically think of higher output pickups as having lots of treble...JB is bright, DD is bright, Dimebucker is bright...

But there are lot of factors that go into tone doh and output is kinda like horsepower in cars, just because you have a ton doesn't mean you need more for faster/more acceleration. My Charger has around 300 HP and is too fast for most roads I drive daily. A Charger Hellcat has over 400 HP more than mine, but both are still fast and have awesome acceleration.

Actually most high output pickups sound dark. And lower out put brighter. Ofcourse there are exceptions and all depends a lot on how they are wound.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

Actually most high output pickups sound dark. And lower out put brighter. Ofcourse there are exceptions and all depends a lot on how they are wound.

Which high output pickups sound dark? Just curious because that has definitely not been my experience.

My high output Gibson pickups sound bright, my high output Charvel stock pickups (ceramic) sound bright, my JB and Dimebucker are on the bright side, the Crunchlab was very bright, etc....

 

[DarkMatter]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

The brightness heard in a high output pickup such as a JB is different than the brightness of a PAF style pickup. I think people perceive a high output pickup as compressed because of this and because they usually have less total dynamic range.

 

[Snake Aces]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

The brightness heard in a high output pickup such as a JB is different than the brightness of a PAF style pickup. I think people perceive a high output pickup as compressed because of this and because they usually have less total dynamic range.

Agreed. It has been my experience that lower output pickups have more dynamic range as well.

 

[DreX]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

Which high output pickups sound dark? Just curious because that has definitely not been my experience.

It's a technical fact of life that as winds are added, self-resistance goes up and the peak resonance of the coil goes down. They make high output pickups that retain a lot of high end, but they still have to deal with that fact of physics / electronics.

The brightness heard in a high output pickup such as a JB is different than the brightness of a PAF style pickup.

Absolutely correct. This is the problem with crude adjectives like "bright" and "dark". The actual frequency response can be plotted on a two dimensional XY axis, where everything above, say 5 kHz on the X axis can be describe as "treble" or "presence", but the Y amplitude value can be all sorts of things, and therein lies all the different shades and varieties of "treble".

I think people perceive a high output pickup as compressed because of this and because they usually have less total dynamic range.

There seems to be some debate about whether it's the pickup squishing the dynamic range, or the front end of the amplification / effects, but the end result is the same, the signal peaks out more readily with hot pickups.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

It's a technical fact of life that as winds are added, self-resistance goes up and the peak resonance of the coil goes down. They make high output pickups that retain a lot of high end, but they still have to deal with that fact of physics / electronics.

So...which high output pickups from experience sound dark?

 

[HeftyMetalGuitar]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

I'd like to thank some of you for your thoughtful insight and informed opinions. I learned a few things about this subject. To the others who seem rather argumentative or, frankly, rude and uninviting, I'm not going to argue the point as the actual informed discussion talking place in this thread is the only point of interest. Trends are difficult to quantify and impossible to accurately measure. All I care to say in my own defense is that I'm an educated and sensible person, and I can tell a trend when I see one. Whether someone agrees or not is not where my curiosity is directed.

I familiarized myself upon joining with the rules, but must have missed the part that members with unpopular or contrary opinions are discouraged from freely interacting. Perhaps then I signed up on the wrong forum or somehow found myself in a non-American section of the Internet. It's quite ridiculous the extent some have gone to berate my ideas and commentary even to the point of accusing me of trying to mislead people with a false premise. I have seen my share of Internet trolls before but it is surprising how virulently I have been attacked just for my simple and honest inquiry which I maintained with civility.

I would like to conclude my inquiry by giving thanks to the earnest participants who contributed with sincere interest.

 

[DreX]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

So...which high output pickups from experience sound dark?

I don't buy a lot of high output pickups because it's not my thing, but I have a handful of higher-than-vintage output pickups that demonstrate the obvious. The StraBro 90, I measured a peak resonance of only about 3 kHz, the darkest pickup I've ever come across. The DiMarzio Air Norton is fairly dark, as is the Tone Zone S, the DiMarzio Red Velvets, Lollar Special S, the Gibson USA 84T-LM, BKP Irish Tours, among others.

The SSL-4 Quarter Pount is a lot darker than SSL-1's, and the spec sheet confirms what I hear with my ears, 4.8 KHz peak resonance on the QP, 10 KHz peak on the SSL-1. http://www.seymourduncan.com/comparetones You can go down the list and see that the vintage pickups have higher peaks than the mid output pickups, which have higher peaks than the highest output pickups.

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

The main trends I have noticed have involved relatively cool or mid output pickups, not necessarily hot ones. ESPECIALLY around Duncan stuff. The whole Nazgul Sentient Pegasus 59/c hybrid Perpetual Burn WLH bomb that dropped the last few years was to cover a gap in their line up. Dimarzio just released the PAF master pickups as well as the Satch track this last year and those are pretty low output too. Most people's need for high output pickups were satisfied in the 80s. Even EMG is gravitating towards more vintage tones in their line up with the 57/66. So yeah, if a bunch of high output pickups have been swarming the market recently, I haven't really noticed.

 

[GuitarStv]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

The Tone Zone connected to only a 500k volume pot is less bright than the Seth Lover bridge connected to a volume and tone.

 

[treyhaislip]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

I don't buy a lot of high output pickups because it's not my thing, but I have a handful of higher-than-vintage output pickups that demonstrate the obvious. The StraBro 90, I measured a peak resonance of only about 3 kHz, the darkest pickup I've ever come across. The DiMarzio Air Norton is fairly dark, as is the Tone Zone S, the DiMarzio Red Velvets, Lollar Special S, the Gibson USA 84T-LM, BKP Irish Tours, among others.

The SSL-4 Quarter Pount is a lot darker than SSL-1's, and the spec sheet confirms what I hear with my ears, 4.8 KHz peak resonance on the QP, 10 KHz peak on the SSL-1. http://www.seymourduncan.com/comparetones You can go down the list and see that the vintage pickups have higher peaks than the mid output pickups, which have higher peaks than the highest output pickups.

Hmm, well I've phased out of single coils except in my Semi-Hollow–I switched from Seymour Duncan Alnico II Strat set to Fender Fat 50's which are Alnico Vs. I didn't notice a decrease in treble response; rather, it sounded more bell like and more open.

I will say the Hot Rails I've used were on the dark side but other than that I've only experienced more output to be loud and proud with more of a treble response.

 

[DreX]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

An interesting thing about coils is that the resonant peak stays the same regardless of magnet that it's paired with. People say an A2 gives a darker sound than an A5 or ceramic, but the thing to keep in mind is that it's not the frequency that's changing, but the amplitude at that frequency, whatever it happens to be. This is why a ceramic magnet can make a hot coil sound brighter; it jacks up the amplitude at what is presumably a lower peak resonant frequency.

This is probably why so many guitarists hate Texas Specials, they put a huge boost at a frequency that's not pleasing to the ear. Some they say the solution is to lower Texas Special closer to the pick guard, which is similar in effect to having weaker magnetic pole pieces, as both reduce the amplitude at the peak resonance and make it not sound so harsh / ice picky.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

I also think it is a bit of a myth these days that high output pickups lack treble.

They often have that problem but they don't have to. I'm known primarily as a vintage-to-mid-output guy but judging from my R&D with metalhead models, there is no reason on God's green earth that such a wind has to be any less clear and 3D than any vintage clone.

 

[Zhangliqun]

Re: Why are hot pickups the trend these days?

Which high output pickups sound dark? Just curious because that has definitely not been my experience. My high output Gibson pickups sound bright, my high output Charvel stock pickups (ceramic) sound bright, my JB and Dimebucker are on the bright side, the Crunchlab was very bright, etc....

It's not so much that some higher winds sound dark, per se, more that they sound brittle and 2-dimensional, which creates the infuriating sonic paradox of a pickup that is both too bright and too dark at the same time. A few winds come to mind but none more so than Gibson's 498T and 500T. If you try to tame the brittle treble, it turned to mud. If you tried to clear it up some, it became a detail-free icepick. (They also are on my Mt Olympus of Pickups That Got Me Into Winding...)

On the other hand, there are truly dark high output pickups, some apparently on purpose. I often bought the Invader back in the 80's, very cool looking pickup to be sure. The bridge was a bit dark, the neck even more so. I then discovered upon removing the surround tape that the Invader neck had a little cap (don't know what the spec was) directly from hot to ground. Apparently the fear was that the ceramic mag would make the pickup too bright but I would always just cut it out of there and it always sounded much better.