astrozombie
KatyPerryologist
Ive always noticed that, I guess it isnt my imagination..
So i gotta ask, why is it that an amp sounds better loud than quiet?
So i gotta ask, why is it that an amp sounds better loud than quiet?
Why do my amps sound better at higher volumes?
- Thread starter astrozombie
- Start date
Re: Why do my amps sound better at higher volumes?
ya it's so weird that Tube amps sound better higher in volume and SS amps sound better at lower volumes...
i have this theory made up in my mind, not based on truth, that cranking the volume of a tube amp helps the electrons move more freely... and also when the speaker is getting hit with more pressure it acts less lazy..
ya it's so weird that Tube amps sound better higher in volume and SS amps sound better at lower volumes...
i have this theory made up in my mind, not based on truth, that cranking the volume of a tube amp helps the electrons move more freely... and also when the speaker is getting hit with more pressure it acts less lazy..
BigAlTheBird
Guest
Re: Why do my amps sound better at higher volumes?
Well Tube amps inarguably sound better at higher volumes. Somebody like WhoFan would know a lot more than me. Obviously the tubes get warmer as they get louder, but technically speaking I dunno what happens.
But Tube amps definitely sound infinitely better as they get louder.
Well Tube amps inarguably sound better at higher volumes. Somebody like WhoFan would know a lot more than me. Obviously the tubes get warmer as they get louder, but technically speaking I dunno what happens.
But Tube amps definitely sound infinitely better as they get louder.
Empty Pockets
BadHairDayologist
Re: Why do my amps sound better at higher volumes?
More volume = more love
That's why the coolest cats play 2 or 3 full-stacks a piece.
More volume = more love
That's why the coolest cats play 2 or 3 full-stacks a piece.
FAC
New member
Re: Why do my amps sound better at higher volumes?
Two single channel tube amp setups at the same volume:
1. A cranked tube amp with the guitar's volume turned down
2. Guitar on full but tube amp turned down
Both give the same sound level, but #1 sounds better to me with my amps (Victoria Deluxe and TopHat Club Royale)...yes, there is more noise, but the tone sounds better to me.
So I think it is not just loudness, but "crankedness", with tube amps.
I'm finding it difficult to articulate this phenomenon...does this make sense?
Two single channel tube amp setups at the same volume:
1. A cranked tube amp with the guitar's volume turned down
2. Guitar on full but tube amp turned down
Both give the same sound level, but #1 sounds better to me with my amps (Victoria Deluxe and TopHat Club Royale)...yes, there is more noise, but the tone sounds better to me.
So I think it is not just loudness, but "crankedness", with tube amps.
I'm finding it difficult to articulate this phenomenon...does this make sense?
S
Skarekrough
Guest
Re: Why do my amps sound better at higher volumes?
Or a small amp dimed with a mic in front of it.
Or a small amp dimed with a mic in front of it.
FAC
New member
Re: Why do my amps sound better at higher volumes?
I think this is part of what I was getting at (both of mine are small amps, I suppose...).
I think this is part of what I was getting at (both of mine are small amps, I suppose...).
ModestCargo
New member
Re: Why do my amps sound better at higher volumes?
We all know why tube amps sound better at higher volumes, but I find solid states (Roland Jazz Chorus) do as well, must be to do with how we perceive sound.
We all know why tube amps sound better at higher volumes, but I find solid states (Roland Jazz Chorus) do as well, must be to do with how we perceive sound.
FAC
New member
Re: Why do my amps sound better at higher volumes?
Given two identical tones that are at slightly different volumes, folks will always choose the louder one as sounding "better". This is a common trick used by stereo salesmen to manipulate the buyer...not sure if this applies to SPL's equivalent to a jet taking off, but there you go...
Given two identical tones that are at slightly different volumes, folks will always choose the louder one as sounding "better". This is a common trick used by stereo salesmen to manipulate the buyer...not sure if this applies to SPL's equivalent to a jet taking off, but there you go...
L
Lewguitar
Guest
Re: Why do my amps sound better at higher volumes?
IMO, it's because we guitarists like the sound of an amp that is working hard and generating some distortion. Most guitarists like a little distortion...even the guys who play clean. There are exceptions (maybe someone like Chet Atkins) but when I listen to a player like Wes Montgomery I hear a little gentle breakup, sometimes, even in his tone. Seems to generate a richer tone with more harmonics that doesn't sound as thin and sterile as an amp that is barely on.
An amp like a 80 watt Fender Twin Reverb or 100 watt plexi Marshall sounds terrible to me on 1 or 2. It needs to be able to be turned up to 3 or 4 or more to start generating that rich tone we all love - even us guys who for the most part prefer a cleanish tone.
Lew
IMO, it's because we guitarists like the sound of an amp that is working hard and generating some distortion. Most guitarists like a little distortion...even the guys who play clean. There are exceptions (maybe someone like Chet Atkins) but when I listen to a player like Wes Montgomery I hear a little gentle breakup, sometimes, even in his tone. Seems to generate a richer tone with more harmonics that doesn't sound as thin and sterile as an amp that is barely on.
An amp like a 80 watt Fender Twin Reverb or 100 watt plexi Marshall sounds terrible to me on 1 or 2. It needs to be able to be turned up to 3 or 4 or more to start generating that rich tone we all love - even us guys who for the most part prefer a cleanish tone.
Lew
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Why do my amps sound better at higher volumes?
DING...DING...DING...
We have a winner folks!
DING...DING...DING...
We have a winner folks!
BigAlTheBird
Guest
Re: Why do my amps sound better at higher volumes?
Darn right. Doesn't get much better than a world class 15 watt 12" combo completely cranked, 5 feet away from you.
Not much better than that!
Darn right. Doesn't get much better than a world class 15 watt 12" combo completely cranked, 5 feet away from you.
Not much better than that!
BigAlTheBird
Guest
Re: Why do my amps sound better at higher volumes?
Great point!
That's why I like my particular amp, it doesn't have even the slightest hint of breakup on 10 with low output pickups like Filtertrons. Clean!
Now with a proper humbucker though, it gets nice and raunchy (in a good way).
Great point!
That's why I like my particular amp, it doesn't have even the slightest hint of breakup on 10 with low output pickups like Filtertrons. Clean!
Now with a proper humbucker though, it gets nice and raunchy (in a good way).
crusty philtrum
Vintageologist
Re: Why do my amps sound better at higher volumes?
If you're talking about Solid-State amps, they have some settings where they'll sound better, but toooo loud and they just kick over (usually abruptly) at a certain point, into a disgusting distortion. Below that level, they can work the speakers and push some air and some of them can have circuitry that lets them get a reasonably pleasing fat sound at some settings. But the range of 'good' sounds seems nuch narrower than valve (tube) amps.
Tube amps are the ones where it all happens. There are a lot of inter-related things happening that cause the 'magic' we all know and love. The tube emphasises the 'even' harmonics, as opposed to the odd-order harmonics emphasised by transistors. The even-order harmonics from tubes are the ones we find more musically pleasing.
The waveform (our guitar signal) is affected differently....with transistors, the wave shape stays pretty pure, unchanged, until at a certain level, it suddenly gets too big and the wave becomes almost a square-wave (which will sound very harsh, kinda like a fuzz-box). That's why a SS amp can sound clean for a long way round the dial, unchanged, until it hits the point where it kicks over to this gritty, dirty sound.
The tube, however, behaves very differently. As more input is applied, the output signal slowly changes shape.....which is technically distortion, but it is subtle and at the early stages, we still hear it as 'clean', but there is a warmth, a fattening, the is almost universally considered pleasing to the ear. (I once saw this sound described as being 'soiled' rather than clean, which i thought was a great descrption, hehe).
As the signal passes through several stages, getting more gain and subtle changes at each stage, a 'comlexity' builds up, all adding to the tone. I am talking about the 'cleaner' end of sound here, like a vintage amp with no master volume. The principle is always the same, but some of this gets taken to extremes once master volumes and gain and overdrive stages are introduced for heavy distortion.
In something like a standard F*nder/ M*rshall/ V*x from the early days, pre-master volume, at very low volume settings, the signal moves through the amp at lower levels, and one stage tends not to overdrive the next, and the sound will get to the speakers as an almost exact reproduction of the input. There will be some added wamth to the sound due to the even-order hamonic emphasis of the tubes. Also the transformers will not be contributing any form of 'distortion' at this point. Neither will the speakers.
As the volume begins to be increased, the signal after the volume control works the inputs of the following stages harder, and the output signals change shape, as i mentioned earlier, and what we hear becomes different....better. The waveforms bocome more harmonically complex and fuller. Of course, keep going up the dial end this progresses to 'fat' then 'ballsy' then.....'dirty'....bur progressively, and usually in a pleasing way.
I've been a player for over 35 years, have always been interested in electronics, and have been building and repairing amps for over 15 years, maybe more. I see what i am trying to describe here almost daily on the oscilloscope, and i know exactly the relationship between that and what my ears here. It is at once a pleasure and a curse. To me, there is still a 'magic', but most of it IS quantifiable.
Also....an amp can sound different on different days, in different weather, many other quirky variables.
I learnt, as a teenager, that a non-master volume amp would have volume 'zones' that worked for me. So then how could i get those tones at higher or lower volumes? I came to this conclusion....own several amps, of different power ratings. The master volume control got introduced to try to deal with this issue, but they change the core sound, not neccesarlily for the better, and have gone on to become their own sound. I am a true believer that all guitar sound should be built on a good....no....great....clean sound. Get a great clean tone (i mean 'clean' as in what we hear, which may be technically somewhat distorted,......like an old Fender turned up a bit less than halfway)....with a good core tone like that, driven tones are really something else.
One good thing....knowing how tube amps (and SS amps) behave certainly makes it easier to find an amp that suits you. Searching for the sweet spots, basically. Sometimes it's frustrating that we can't have an amp that does this stuff consistently at any setting, but such is the frustration....and the magic....(in the pre-master-volume control days, the "play LOUD' mantra was uttered....shouted....for a very good reason.....).....
.........I'm sorry....did you say something....i can't hear you.........
If you're talking about Solid-State amps, they have some settings where they'll sound better, but toooo loud and they just kick over (usually abruptly) at a certain point, into a disgusting distortion. Below that level, they can work the speakers and push some air and some of them can have circuitry that lets them get a reasonably pleasing fat sound at some settings. But the range of 'good' sounds seems nuch narrower than valve (tube) amps.
Tube amps are the ones where it all happens. There are a lot of inter-related things happening that cause the 'magic' we all know and love. The tube emphasises the 'even' harmonics, as opposed to the odd-order harmonics emphasised by transistors. The even-order harmonics from tubes are the ones we find more musically pleasing.
The waveform (our guitar signal) is affected differently....with transistors, the wave shape stays pretty pure, unchanged, until at a certain level, it suddenly gets too big and the wave becomes almost a square-wave (which will sound very harsh, kinda like a fuzz-box). That's why a SS amp can sound clean for a long way round the dial, unchanged, until it hits the point where it kicks over to this gritty, dirty sound.
The tube, however, behaves very differently. As more input is applied, the output signal slowly changes shape.....which is technically distortion, but it is subtle and at the early stages, we still hear it as 'clean', but there is a warmth, a fattening, the is almost universally considered pleasing to the ear. (I once saw this sound described as being 'soiled' rather than clean, which i thought was a great descrption, hehe).
As the signal passes through several stages, getting more gain and subtle changes at each stage, a 'comlexity' builds up, all adding to the tone. I am talking about the 'cleaner' end of sound here, like a vintage amp with no master volume. The principle is always the same, but some of this gets taken to extremes once master volumes and gain and overdrive stages are introduced for heavy distortion.
In something like a standard F*nder/ M*rshall/ V*x from the early days, pre-master volume, at very low volume settings, the signal moves through the amp at lower levels, and one stage tends not to overdrive the next, and the sound will get to the speakers as an almost exact reproduction of the input. There will be some added wamth to the sound due to the even-order hamonic emphasis of the tubes. Also the transformers will not be contributing any form of 'distortion' at this point. Neither will the speakers.
As the volume begins to be increased, the signal after the volume control works the inputs of the following stages harder, and the output signals change shape, as i mentioned earlier, and what we hear becomes different....better. The waveforms bocome more harmonically complex and fuller. Of course, keep going up the dial end this progresses to 'fat' then 'ballsy' then.....'dirty'....bur progressively, and usually in a pleasing way.
I've been a player for over 35 years, have always been interested in electronics, and have been building and repairing amps for over 15 years, maybe more. I see what i am trying to describe here almost daily on the oscilloscope, and i know exactly the relationship between that and what my ears here. It is at once a pleasure and a curse. To me, there is still a 'magic', but most of it IS quantifiable.
Also....an amp can sound different on different days, in different weather, many other quirky variables.
I learnt, as a teenager, that a non-master volume amp would have volume 'zones' that worked for me. So then how could i get those tones at higher or lower volumes? I came to this conclusion....own several amps, of different power ratings. The master volume control got introduced to try to deal with this issue, but they change the core sound, not neccesarlily for the better, and have gone on to become their own sound. I am a true believer that all guitar sound should be built on a good....no....great....clean sound. Get a great clean tone (i mean 'clean' as in what we hear, which may be technically somewhat distorted,......like an old Fender turned up a bit less than halfway)....with a good core tone like that, driven tones are really something else.
One good thing....knowing how tube amps (and SS amps) behave certainly makes it easier to find an amp that suits you. Searching for the sweet spots, basically. Sometimes it's frustrating that we can't have an amp that does this stuff consistently at any setting, but such is the frustration....and the magic....(in the pre-master-volume control days, the "play LOUD' mantra was uttered....shouted....for a very good reason.....).....
.........I'm sorry....did you say something....i can't hear you.........
metlking
Well-known member
Re: Why do my amps sound better at higher volumes?
Remember when almost all home stereo systems had a "Loudness" button? In theory that was to simulated the boosted highs and lows of a cranked stereo...so my science teacher said back in High School.....and you thought it was for use with metal bands from Japan...MZA!
Remember when almost all home stereo systems had a "Loudness" button? In theory that was to simulated the boosted highs and lows of a cranked stereo...so my science teacher said back in High School.....and you thought it was for use with metal bands from Japan...MZA!
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