Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

[Ayrton]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

No such thing as "vintage noiseless" pickups. You can get low output noiseless, but part of the vintage sound is the noise.

I have several guitars with noiseless singles and I like them just fine. I also have several with vintage construction and I love them too.

Lew, I finally installed my set of Fralin Vintage Hots (the blue strat) and wow! I think they might be my new favorites. The neck and middle are to die for.

 

[freefrog]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

If I hadn't lost in a crashed hard disk some data about Vintage Noiseless Strat PU's, I could post their resonant peaks to show one of their relative "problems": they produce a "dual resonance", with a first high pitched peak then another one, lower in the audio range.

It creates a "comb filtering" effect in the high range, like a Varitone would do with very low value capacitors. This effect doesn't sound bad in itself... but it has nothing to do with the pointy high Q resonant peak of regular Fender SC's and IME, it is clearly audible in the response of the PU's when they're played.

The same thing happens with most stacks on the market, as well as with any noise cancelling dummy coil wired in series to some SC's.

And in most cases, stacks have not only a higher DCR but also a higher inductance than regular SC's, which makes them thicker sounding - see the DiMarzio Area 67 with its 2.6H of inductance when a gray bottom PE Fender SC of this era would measure 2H or less...

FWIW, after a way more flawed design named the "Super 55 Split Coil", Fender succeeded to obtain a realistic single coilish resonant peak (and inductive value) with their noiseless generation 4. These things are a bit cold sounding but at least they have the EQing of a regular single coil.

And there's ways to tame the dual resonant peak of a stack for a more single coilish resonance but the technical solution involved has to be designed and tuned precisely for each stack "cured" (exactly like each Duncan "Classic Stack Plus" is tuned in the factory: it's not surprising when we consider how "moody" stacks are, with their "schizoid" coils ).

FWIW.

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

Dunno...never got into all of that, I like my Wilde/Bill Lawrence pickups because they are clear and pretty strong sounding and not as coloured as other pickups.
Have had so many kinds of pickups through the ages now, I still use ole Bills stuff....that they are pretty noise free is just nice, as they are not dead or too engineered towards a certain type of sound.
I can play stuff that I like and they will work, as for dynamics and such, never had any trouble, most of that is found in how your playing technique is....
And one of my old Navigators used Classic stacks....liked those as well...

 

[Golem]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

They’re not awful, I just don’t like them as much as really good noiseless pickups like Kinmans. Even stock Fender singles like 57/62 sound better. Fender hasn’t made a noiseless pickup I love.


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[zionstrat]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

Kind of late to get on this thread, but this one is easy for me-

1. Live requires some type of noise rejection if you play in rooms you don't know- Otherwise you are stuck on 2 and 4 for quite parts when the 60hz is out of control and have lived thru this more times than I want to admit, because I didn't listen to this rule

2. Within the mix, you can get any pup to sound like practically anything- I love Joe Bardens for live strats- more attack with a broader pallet than a transitional strat, but they are so easy to dial in and spin-a-split really helps. Considering room conditioning, EQ and the rest of the stuff the FOH engineer is doing, I just need a good sound for myself.

3. I love my single coils, in the studio!

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

Just buy a NS-2 and/or a Hum Debugger. I never really understood the noiseless single coil idea, there is no need for them.

 

[Golem]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

Just buy a NS-2 and/or a Hum Debugger. I never really understood the noiseless single coil idea, there is no need for them.

Hum bothers some more than others. I’ve tried the hum debugger and while it is good it is not perfect.


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[TVFV]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

Just buy a NS-2 and/or a Hum Debugger. I never really understood the noiseless single coil idea, there is no need for them.

?

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[Silence Kid]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

Occurs to me the only one I've tried is the Classic Stack Plus, unless you count Lace Sensors. Stack Plus is indistinguishable from a true single to me. Sensors are their own thing.

 

[Chistopher]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

?

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The purpose of noiseless pickups is to reduce noise, but there are many other parts of the chain other than the pickups that produce noise: unshielded electronics, distortion, and any cheap and poorly made part of your chain will produce noise. It doesn't matter how quiet your guitar is, if the rest of your rig is crap, you will have unbearable amounts of noise, a noise gate or filter is a major remedy for noise from the system as a whole, not just from one part as noiseless pickups do.

Noiseless pickups are nice to have, especially STKs, but if I prefer the tone of a true single coil over a noiseless one, it's not the end of the world that it produces some hum, because I have another way to get rid of hum that can be used on all my guitars.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

Just buy a NS-2 and/or a Hum Debugger. I never really understood the noiseless single coil idea, there is no need for them.

Not argiung with what works for you, but have played in many rooms where you can't tune out 60hz without destroying tone... Far better in those rooms to use noise free pups with lots of shielding...

Of course, music style has a lot to do with it... Far less important doing hard rock sets in a bar... Sound overpowers hum.

But try playing Every Breath You Take at a wedding reception in a hummy room and easy to get forced into 2 or 4 to get noise rejection.

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[treyhaislip]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

nothing wrong with noiseless....they just dont sound or feel like true singles. its all a matter of getting the sound you want is all.
You are right on the money tho about tspecs about being middy but they do work very well with overdrive.
As long as your guitar sounds great acoustically, you can swap pickups and sound any way you want! So chose a guitar on its unplugged sound first...

This! It comes down to the feel to me.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

Lets not confuse RF interference with 60 cycle hum. The 60 hum doesn’t bother me and is part of the “strat sound”. Interference from lights, poor wiring, etc is something you have to deal with however you can. The audience is not going to know or care if you are using noiseless pickups versus vintage, but they sure as hell will know if your guitar starts channeling the gospel hour from the radio.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

Just buy a NS-2 and/or a Hum Debugger. I never really understood the noiseless single coil idea, there is no need for them.

ive never gotten along with them, i always feel there is some tone suck going on so for me, a good noiseless pup is a better solution. i still think its a compromise or at least a different tone than a good single coil but its one that works better for me than any thing else ive tried.

 

[zionstrat]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

... a good noiseless pup is a better solution. i still think its a compromise or at least a different tone than a good single coil but its one that works better for me than any thing else ive tried.

+1

I think some of the confusion surrounds 'vintage' sound in a performance environment-

My Bardens do not sound 'vintage'- They are bright, snappy and quacky out of the box- More like Tele+Strat on steroids than classic warmer tones- And keep in mind that my Zion is a real swamp ash+maple strat tone monster to start...

So, if you buy into the 'I need a noiseless guitar to perform in subpar environments' as I do, they are the perfect starting point for me- Spin a split 'depowers' them nicely, and for some reason, they remain noise canceling in most environments until the last 10% or so (not a pot issue- same is true with linear and non-linear).

And series provides wonderful thick, unbright tones

And note that we haven't talked about tone control, amps settings, eq, compression yet.

Bottom line, in the mix, the bardens do everything from Cropper to Sultans to Clapton to Gilmour very well and they've got so much power that I can push them into minihumbucker territory- note that this is one of my 'simple guitars', but kind of case in point for the mods we talk about here.

Another analogy is subtractive synthesis- start with enough harmonics and sustain, use correct filters and dynamic controls and you can emulate practically anything (in the mix)...

Bottom line, when I want 'classic' tones in the studio or bedroom, my 'real' strats come out- but never in the noisy real world.

(Note that if I was an arena musician with dedicated techs, the solution might be different- but maybe not

 

[Adieu]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

Cat don't scream right without its balls

Thats why

PS seriously though? SOMETHING about the design philosophy / tech architecture behind the pickup line Fender brands as "noiseless" just makes em sound inferior to their other products

 

[Vasshu the humanoid typhoon]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

? Inferior...different perhaps...
So humbuckers in any way are just bad pickups
It kinda boils down to the maker, if he or she has the skills to make a pickup sound good!
The rest is just plain religion!

 

[Adieu]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

? Inferior...different perhaps...
So humbuckers in any way are just bad pickups
It kinda boils down to the maker, if he or she has the skills to make a pickup sound good!
The rest is just plain religion!

"Vintage Noiseless" is the trademark for a specific series of Fender pickups, just fyi, and it's those specific pickups that tend to elicit very polarizing reactions from the strat crowd

 

[jtees4]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

I thought I hated Vintage Noiseless pickups because of the all the hate I have read online for a bunch of years. Then I got a Tele with them, and I absolutely love them. So I was wrong, in fact my last Tele I put Dimarzio Areas in without even trying the Vintage Noiseless....I like the VN better. Oh well, old guy learned something new.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Why do so many people dislike vintage noiseless strat pups

i havent spent much time with the tele versions but plenty with the strat versions, which reminds me i think i have a set i need to put up for sale