Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

Jeffblue

Well-known member
I have made mods on my amp, 3 prong plug, Mercury Magnetics output transformer, 10 inch speaker mod, 5V4 rectifier for slower warm up and 5881 output tube. When I play, everything sounds and performs beautifully until the sound fades and then drops out. When I look at the tubes, all the filaments are lit except the output tube. Any ideas?
 
Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

A bad connection, maybe a valve pin. Try reseating/reinserting the valve. Use some contact cleaner on the pins.
 
Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

A bad connection, maybe a valve pin. Try reseating/reinserting the valve. Use some contact cleaner on the pins.

I had changed the tube and the same thing happened. I did spray the tube pins with contact cleaner. Perhaps I need to tighten the socket contacts.

Thank you Golden Vulture.
 
Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

If it continues to happen maybe reflow the heater wire connections on the valve socket pins. Possibly a dry joint that plays up when it gets a bit of heat in it.
 
Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

I have already reflowed the solder on the wire/connection for the filament output tube socket. Thank you for your replies.
 
Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

I've seen the solid core broken under the insulation but it still work intermittently. I imagine that it could also happen with stranded. If it's the filament in one power tube it pretty much has to be either the wire feeding that tubes heater or the socket. Otherwise, it would be happening with the other tubes. Unless, maybe, the problem tube is the last tube in the circuit. Then it could be a bigger problem. Have you checked filament voltage? I'd check at the problem tube and the rest of them as well. Note that I'm not a tech, this is just what comes to mind. I just know enough to be dangerous yet unlikely to electrocute myself.
 
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Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

Your input is greatly appreciated, thank you. I will probably have to wait until tomorrow to pull the chassis out and recheck everything. I might try some contact cleaner in the tube socket to see perhaps a quick fix.
 
Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

While you have it out, may as well also try and re-tension the contacts in that one socket. If a loose contact is the problem, tightening up may work. Well, at least until the tube gets pulled another time or two. Cant hurt anyway. Just make sure the caps are discharged before you go poking around (I know that you know this already).

Good luck. Please report back.
 
Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

Another couple thoughts. If you know for sure that it definitely is not the tube, focus on the socket. The power tube filaments should be first off the power tranny which would rule out the wires as they would affect the downstream 9 pin tubes as well.

You swapped to a 5881 which draws twice the heater current as the 6v6. I don't know what the current rating is for the filament winding on the power tranny but thought I would mention it as well.
 
Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

Another couple thoughts. If you know for sure that it definitely is not the tube, focus on the socket. The power tube filaments should be first off the power tranny which would rule out the wires as they would affect the downstream 9 pin tubes as well.

You swapped to a 5881 which draws twice the heater current as the 6v6. I don't know what the current rating is for the filament winding on the power tranny but thought I would mention it as well.

If the heater current draw was more than the power transformer could handle.........wouldn't that affect ALL the filaments on every tube? I am unable to verify but I thought I read somewhere that the power transformer for a Vibro Champ was over rated for voltage/amperage.
 
Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

I have other issues. I brought in 2 NOS 5881s and 2 NOS 6V6s and I installed the first 5881. Both the output and power transformers got hot. I then removed and replaced the 5881 with another and the filament wouldn't light. I then installed the first 6V6 and it started to red plate. I removed the 6V6 and replaced with another and the filament wouldn't light. What is going on? This thing is driving me crazy.
 
Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

The Vibro is cathode biased. You replaced the output transformer. I don't recall what desired output impedances are for the 6v6 and the 5881, but off hand, I think it works as long as the bias is adjusted accordingly. I would suspect that your one 6v6 redplating would be due to it being biased too hot. Just because one 6v6 red plated doesn't mean the other will do the same. Try to find data on your power transformer and see what it's ratings are. Make sure you aren't exceeding with the 5881. The extra half amp or so is probably ok but you never know. You still need to check the voltages on all the tubes filaments. If you are having intermittent problems with multiple power tubes in terms of the filaments not lighting up, it could just go back to the socket (or wire if, for some reason, the power tube is last in line on the filament circuit). Again, I'm not a tech but I'm not sure that a good tech could diagnose whatever is going on over the internet. You could have multiple problems related to the socket, the tubes, the transformer (specs wise anyway), bias. Start measuring voltages, poke around with a chopstick and see if anything jumps out at you. Double check the wiring. Check the bias. And don't get electrocuted.
 
Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

I fixed the intermittent filament issue on the output tube......open/connection on the filament/ground on the output tube socket. I replaced the tubes with a 5Y3 and another 6V6 and I still get a red plate condition. What value of resistor do I need to change for the cathode bias? Thank you for your help.
 
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Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

Hmmmm. That may explain a lot. Pin 8 of that socket should have a resistor to ground. That's the cathode resistor and sets the bias. So, that's where your problem was? And is the resistor still there and is it still good?

Here's biasing info if/when you need it. Maximum plate dissipation for a 6V6 is 12 watts (if memory serves). If it's the bias that needs to be changed, it will require changing the cathode resistor of the 6v6. Schematics I found say it's 470 ohms (doesn't guarantee that it is). Put some numbers and measurements into a calculator. There are several to play with in the link below. They'll tell you where you are and where you need to be.


https://www.tedweber.com/bias-calc
 
Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

Running the amp with a 5881 and a 5V4 and an extra cab with my 10 inch 4 ohm speaker (total 2.6 Ohms) probably contributed to damaging the cathode resistor.
 
Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

I think that the stock resistors were 1 watt. Go with a higher wattage resistor there. 3 watt resistors are just as easy to find online and the voltage rating is usually higher on the 3 watt metal oxides which also helps.
 
Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

Thanks Darg. Would it also be wise to find a higher voltage rating capacitor for the cathode?
 
Re: Why Does The Output Tube On My Vibro Champ Not Stay Lit?

I'm thinking wrong here. It's not the voltage, it's the current through that resistor. Still applies though in terms of using a higher wattage resistor. A lower voltage rated cap should still be fine. I think they are typically 25 volt caps in the schematics. Of course, the only negative to going with a higher voltage rated cap is size. But you shouldn't really have to go to a high voltage rated cap.

I'm running the hell out of the 6V6 in a SE amp. It's not a champ, but similar, based off an old Valco. There are two cathode bias resistors, switchable. One runs the tube at about 12 watts plate dissipation, the other runs it hot, hot, hot. Over 20 watts plate dissipation. It's not like a clean and dirty set up. It's more like a "normal" and nasty set-up. I didn't build the amp but I've tweaked it. I upgraded the OT and added a choke. It hummed like a SOB and I've got it so quiet with re-working some grounds and wiring, plus adding the choke, that it really shocked me (how relatively quiet it runs). At any rate, the 6V6 plate voltage is over 400 volts at 12 watt dissipation and around 370 volts at 20 watts dissipation. I haven't burnt through a 6V6 yet but they probably wont last very long. It's an interesting amp, it uses a 6SL7 as the driver/preamp tube rather than a 12ax7. Also has a rotary switch that switches the plate resistor and cathode resistor+bypass cap values on the 6SL7 which effectively changes that tubes bias. A couple positions of the switch are close to original spec values. A couple others essentially starve the plate, which makes for some nasty, but interesting tones. There was no bypass cap across the cathode bias resistor on the 6V6. I added one on a switch to switch it in or out. I have a small supply of NOS 6v6's for that amp. I think that there is one current production 6V6 that would probably survive the circuit but I don't think I'd trust current production tubes in general. At any rate, the tube is running outside of it's comfort zone. By a mile, some would argue. Although, I've seen plenty of reports from people with old Champs that claim that the 6V6 is running at 18 (or more) watts plate dissipation with relatively high plate voltages (probably because of more voltage at the wall these days). Overall point being that the 6V6 is a pretty tough tube. At least the old ones were. I get no red-plating. The trannies never get beyond just warm.

At any rate, it sounds like you are on your way to getting it back up and running. I wish I was more of a techie so I could be of greater help but I'm happy to be able to help even if it's just a little bit. Keep updating. I'm curious as to how it will all work out.
 
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