Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

[Discharged]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

So even the Seth Antiquity with the A2 that SD sells is not correct either......

That's the thing: correct, is not. Good? It's excellent. Actually, NOBODY offers two identical p'ups and promotes it as "period correct" set. Because, although being "correct", it wouldn't be "good", if you ask me. A neck p'up and a bridge p'up should be different. That's the best solution... it's just not "correct" or "Period correct".

And even if you give six Franklins in a 100% "correct" set, like the Throbak, Re-Winds or other boutique winders offer, it's no guarantee whatsoever that it'll be the arguably "best" for that specific instrument.

Having given the choice of getting a "set" or two identical p'ups just because it's "correct", I'll choose the set any time of the day and twice of sundays.

To close the argument: I'm CURRENTLY using an A3n/A2b-modded, nickel-covered, '59 set on my ES-339. It provides the "right" inherent tone-footprint for the Smooth Jazz project band I play with. I could've used a myriad of other much more expensive p'ups, but my "lowly", modded '59s give a run for their money to other p'ups costing at least three times as much, and then some.

/Peter

 

[Discharged]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

the jb/jazz are legacy pups for Seymour Duncan. The antiquity versions resemble the originals a bit more closely than the newer counterparts.

@discharged: what makes them different? Especially the Seth and 59 confuse me.

butyrate bobbins? Check.
Nickel silver baseplate? Check.
42 awg plain enamel wire? Check.

Leesona winding machine? Check.

Perhaps only the winding pattern? Alnico V instead of III or IV?

orpheo, there are a myriad of details in the construction and assembly that differentiate Duncans from original P.A.F.s. For starters there are several butyrate bobbins on the market, but AFAIK, only the custom-made Throbaks have the same measures and design of the core like the originals. The material of what the bobbin is made is the least of your problems when aiming for "authenticity".

Get the Mario Milan and James Rafferty book intitled "The Gibson "P.A.F." Humbucking Pickup: From Myth to Reality". You'll learn a whole lot, I guarantee it.

In my case, I've never felt the need to go "vintage crazy" for anything. As long as the guitar plays well, what I get paid for is to play the right notes at the right time with the right intent. And when you're able to do that, IME, is very rare to be questioned about your tone, although when you also care for that too, just like icing on the cake, might become the difference between you and another player just as good as yourself to get the first call when live and/or studio gigs are at stake

/Peter

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

In answer to the OP, looks like someone already had a set made (note the A2 neck/A3 bridge):

https://www.themusiczoo.com/products/seymour-duncan-59-aged-umbucker-pickup-set

Seymour Duncan Custom Shop '59 Aged Humbucker Pickup Set

This is a set of Seymour Duncan '59 humbuckers with some great looking aged nickel covers. If you're looking for that '50s accurate PAF style of tone - you can't go wrong with the Duncan '59. This is a pickup with tons of old-school tonal character, but with a brighter top end, and a more compressed sound. Neck Pickup: Alnico II, 7.7k Bridge Pickup: Alnico III, 8.1k

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

That's the part you overlooked: Seymour's '59s are NOT a copy or clone; are an INTERPRETATION of the specific set used as base for the design (Billy Gibbon's '59 'burst).

the pearly gates is Billy Gibbons '59 burst!!! NOT the 59 set.
the 59 is suppossed to be Jeff Becks 59 Lespaul but with an A5 instead of an A2
Source:
https://www.seymourduncan.com/vintage

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

In my case, I've never felt the need to go "vintage crazy" for anything. As long as the guitar plays well, what I get paid for is to play the right notes at the right time with the right intent. And when you're able to do that, IME, is very rare to be questioned about your tone, although when you also care for that too, just like icing on the cake, might become the difference between you and another player just as good as yourself to get the first call when live and/or studio gigs are at stake

/Peter

that's quite a catchy phrase and i read it before.
Yes wait a Minute! google brought up this old banned user:

Amen to that!

I've recently recorded an entire project with a € 200,00 guitar. The most obvious detail, which Is often overlooked, is that your job as a musician is first and foremost to play the right notes at the right time. If you can do that, the tone you use seldom Is matter of discussion.

HTH,

source:
https://forum.seymourduncan.com/sho...lver-Pickups&p=3725434&viewfull=1#post3725434

what a coincidence!!!

 

[JB6464]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

In answer to the OP, looks like someone already had a set made (note the A2 neck/A3 bridge):

https://www.themusiczoo.com/products/seymour-duncan-59-aged-umbucker-pickup-set

Seymour Duncan Custom Shop '59 Aged Humbucker Pickup Set

This is a set of Seymour Duncan '59 humbuckers with some great looking aged nickel covers. If you're looking for that '50s accurate PAF style of tone - you can't go wrong with the Duncan '59. This is a pickup with tons of old-school tonal character, but with a brighter top end, and a more compressed sound. Neck Pickup: Alnico II, 7.7k Bridge Pickup: Alnico III, 8.1k

Music Zoo offers an interesting set of custom 59's , they don't mention if they are unpotted or if the magnets been degaussed or not , just aged .
Makes me wonder with the A2 in the neck , just how much different would it sound than the regular A2 Ants that are available .
Also as I understand it an A3 is a weaker magnet than a A2 , why would they request that in the bridge .

 

[Discharged]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

the pearly gates is Billy Gibbons '59 burst!!! NOT the 59 set.
the 59 is suppossed to be Jeff Becks 59 Lespaul but with an A5 instead of an A2
Source:
https://www.seymourduncan.com/vintage

That's right. It indeed was one of Jeff Beck's 'bursts p'ups what Seymour used as model for the '59s. I stand corrected!

In my defense, Billy Gibbons owns more than one '59 'burst; Pearly Gates was his 3rd or 4th, IIRC. That's why I didn't give it a second thought. My bad.

/Peter

 

[Discharged]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

what a coincidence!!!

Not a coincidence.

That's a common phrase used by agents, managers and contractors talking to wannabe studio musicians in the NY area.

/Peter

 

[GrilledChickenSalad]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

pcorn:

 

[ToneFiddler]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

Not a coincidence.

That's a common phrase used by agents, managers and contractors talking to wannabe studio musicians in the NY area.

/Peter

even better!
i think you guys should hook up then.
i believe in soulmates!
italy and denmark are not that far apart.

back on topic:
i think the duncan company could sell more authentic PAF clone Pickups.
the current paf styles types deliver a great variety of the paf theme.
that said: reading boutique makers pages i always think i am missing out:
kleinpickups and throbak with their said specially formulated magnets,
„like the originals“,
most authentic bla bla
..just gives me GAS.
i think duncan could do the same at a much better price point...
the tone differences might not be so huge and you might get very close with stock materials.
but it still makes me want to try the boutique stuff because maybe i am missing out.

 

[beaubrummels]

Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

Music Zoo offers an interesting set of custom 59's , they don't mention if they are unpotted or if the magnets been degaussed or not , just aged .
Makes me wonder with the A2 in the neck , just how much different would it sound than the regular A2 Ants that are available .
Also as I understand it an A3 is a weaker magnet than a A2 , why would they request that in the bridge .

I would expect they are potted as that is the base recipe of the 59 set. Mags could be degaussed as that is the Dun-aged recipe for antiquity magnets, but it’s not guaranteed. Doesn’t need to be degaussed to sound good anyway. Just switching to A2/A3 is enough to sweeten certain pickups in a vintage direction.

The lower wind coil with the A2 as a neck against a higher wind coil with an A3 in the bridge I think would balance very nicely. It would be a distinct sound, a less common variant of Gibson/PAF type sounds, but in the right guitar with the right hardware and amp would be fantastic and right in the wheelhouse of all the famous Gibson Les Paul / ES / humbucker sounds you can think of.

Duncan has a 21-day guarantee (corrected, per Jeremy), so there’s little risk to trying them.

 

[jeremy]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

duncan has a 21 day exchange on production pups, not sure exactly what these special 59's are but they sure aren't normal production. the store may honor the 21 day thing though

 

[jeremy]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

marketing is a real thing, they want you to believe you are missing out and give them big money. for significantly less than a throbak, the duncan custom shop will make you almost anything you want

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

...but AFAIK, only the custom-made Throbaks have the same measures and design of the core like the originals.

FWIW I was very aware of that bobbin project and it’s loosely my conclusion that they replicated a time-shrunken bobbin, not the geometry of a PAF bobbin as it came off the mold in the 1950s. And to wind a coil on that altered shape is akin to rewinding a PAF bobbin, applying fresh tension to the altered geometry.

There are some statements I’m willing to make as fact when I’ve experienced the research, this one is only my hypothesis based on the details that were shared with me.

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

Despite popular belief, magnets do not degauss to any significant degree (at least in terms of guitar pickups).

I'm glad someone is mentioning this. Alnico magnets take eons to degauss to any notable degree on their own. External factors can cause premature degaussing, of course, but a 40 year-old pickup's magnet today, if unadulterated, will have 99.999% of the charge it left the factory with.

Bill Lawrence used to say the same thing. As with most things the truth lies somewhere in between. According to the books, if the size ratios of the Alnico magnetic circuit are right, it is extremely stable. So this is like saying something is a low calorie snack, but then you look closer and it’s “per serving” and then they say a serving size is a few small bites.

We have to look comprehensively at the aggregate view. Regardless of the science on raw magnets, old pickups, when tested, have lost some of their strength. So that is to say, have ALL of them been stored next to a speaker or amp transformer, or soldering gun transformer? Have all of them experienced some form of temperature or shock trauma?

It is far more rare, in my (and other pickup makers experience, like Seymour) to find a vintage pickup that is at full strength, and doesn’t get stronger after a recharge, than it is to find that these old pickups are degaussed, and do come up when recharged. So that’s a data set that bypasses academic knowledge, and has to be considered.


On the subject overall, yeah I think they should release Antiquity 59s. They’re old enough and people seem to like the old ones, and I’m pretty sure the early ones would have been on butyrate just the same as the JBs.

 

[Masta' C]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

This is why so many of us man-crush Frank

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

On the subject overall, yeah I think they should release Antiquity 59s.

I wouldn't even have to have them "aged", just period correct parts.

Frank, considering no magnet manufacture or guitar maker cared so much about that stuff then, do you think the alnico formula used during that time may have some effect on the gauss?

 

[Discharged]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

italy and denmark are not that far apart.

Only a thousand miles and a country in between...

 

[Discharged]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

do you think the alnico formula used during that time may have some effect on the gauss?

Not the formula but the annealing process... at that time, every poured batch was different.

Thomas & Skinner, then Gibson's biggest magnet supplier, made the magnets in between providing the Military Industrial Complex, which still to this day is its main client.

/Peter

 

[freefrog]

Re: Why does'nt SD offer a Antiquity 59 set

On the subject overall, yeah I think they should release Antiquity 59s. They’re old enough and people seem to like the old ones, and I’m pretty sure the early ones would have been on butyrate just the same as the JBs.

Yes they are/were. At least it's the case with the handful of "Seymourized" SH1's that I've owned until now...

Seymour had already modified the design of P.A.F. bobbins, though: as one of my vintage "Seymourized" has sadly ended with an open coil, I've pulled off the wire and have found a core with what we call in French "redans", like in the wall of this picture:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...nceinte-Djoser.jpg/1280px-Enceinte-Djoser.jpg

The goal was obviously to increase the structural rigidity of the bobbin, in order to prevent bending. IOW, Seymour did know his stuff from day one.

And yes, these old models sound extremely good IMHO, although fragile and sometimes prone to squeal. Mine include dark blueish RC AlNiCo bars, which can't be anything else than A5 according to measurements with our lab gear (they don't rise much the inductance but are still hefty charged so they must be A5)... but they contribute to thick mids, as if they were made from another AlNiCo alloy.

And they encapsulate some of the tone of the early 80's.

So, +1 for Antiquity 59's, if they sound as good.