why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

[RogerMexiko]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

As you alluded to, the basic circuit has been the same since the days of Marconi.
Class D transformer circuits are being designed for tubes, but they're expensive.

For guitar amps, the characteristics of the iron core transformer is part of what creates the sound. If it ain't broke...

Well my back is almost broke from lugging a Twin Reverb around for two many years. I love that amp but just too heavy.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

You stacked the deck by using class A vs class AB and a little old 8" speaker with 90db sensitivity vs 4 x 12 speakers with 102 db sensitivity. Just the speaker arrangement alone results in a 20% db SPL loudness reduction for the tube amp set up.

That's the point. It's a possible scenario where a tube amp would be quieter than a solid state amp with equal wattage - a counter-example to the general claim, "tube amps at the same wattage are louder". I'm not saying, "tube amps are never louder." I'm saying that a generalization - like "tube amps are louder" or "tube amps are not louder" - is inaccurate because there are realistic counter-examples to each claim. I said it in the beginning of this thread: "It's not that simple," because there is no simple, straight-forward answer that is an absolute truth.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

Except that tubes glow with the righteousness of most excellent guitar tone, dudes.

 

[RogerMexiko]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

Tube amps are louder, sound better and weigh too much. Why can't they make xfmrs out of aluminium?

And why is it so complicated taking 110V and turning into 5V, 6.3V and 325V as an example? How did NASA deal with them, they sure couldn't accept the weight of xfmrs like in tube amps?

 

[zzmoore]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

Tube amps are louder, sound better and weigh too much. Why can't they make xfmrs out of aluminium?

And why is it so complicated taking 110V and turning into 5V, 6.3V and 325V as an example? How did NASA deal with them, they sure couldn't accept the weight of xfmrs like in tube amps?

It's simple really, once the rocket breaks free of Earths Main Gravity, NASA can drop the extension cord connecting it to Houston and run the space ship on low voltage solar power DC batteries.. We have to be plugged in all the time.

Aluminum is Non-Magnetic. A quick look at how transformers work will answer THAT question.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

Tube amps are louder, sound better and weigh too much. Why can't they make xfmrs out of aluminium?

And why is it so complicated taking 110V and turning into 5V, 6.3V and 325V as an example? How did NASA deal with them, they sure couldn't accept the weight of xfmrs like in tube amps?

Because iron is ferromagnetic (aluminum isn't), which is important for the magnetic flux (transformers use inductors - which rely on magnetism).

I don't understand the second question or its wording.

 

[zzmoore]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

Most of what you said is correct, but this bit is misleading. If you're talking a 3 dB difference between 60 dB and 63 dB, then you're right - it's barely noticeable. If you're talking a 3 dB difference between 100 dB and 103 dB, there's a very noticeable difference (in fact, 103 dB has over twice the amplitude of 100 dB, although amplitude isn't a direct measurement of loudness either). That's why it's important to remember that dB is a logarithmic function and a measurement of sound pressure levels - not the perception of loudness.

Trying to get a rope around this. When you say Amplitude, you are talking about the Voltage of the Frequency.?
Thank You

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

Trying to get a rope around this. When you say Amplitude, you are talking about the Voltage of the Frequency.?
Thank You

Mechanical force applied over an area, which is directly related to a sound's intensity. I'm not referring to an electrical sine wave's peak.

 

[EDX]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

aluminum ain't ferromagnetic yet it's paramagnetic properties produce a very strong eddy current effect when near to a magnetic field making it able to really mess the inductance of an inductor, depending on design it can be the most undesired way or the key element of the design

 

[JBGenthner]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

PS As my friend used to say, "cubic inches is cubic horsepower". In the late 60's, in sports car racing, (Le Mans), to beat Ferrari's P3 that had a 3 liter motor, Ford brought out the mighty GT40, with a 7 liter monster motor, and beat Ferrari 4 times. GT40: the most beautiful sports car ever made. The Watts question is really great, and there's enough info there to figure out for yourself which amp delivers the best sound FOR YOU; and that's the main point: subjective perception through your own ears is the final factor. If you can, say, go to Guitar Center and play through the various amps, or if not able, then play through all your friend's amps, and pick the one that does what YOU want it to do, and to heck with specifications and all those numbers!

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

There is a lot of information in this thread being stated as fact that is just wrong information...

I will say it as simply as I can...

A watt is a unit of HEAT...NOT SOUND....

In other words, YOU CAN NOT HEAR A WATT

What you hear is decibels.

Now, one of the age old issues with low dollar solid state and digital amps is their use of terribly cheap speakers. Those kinds of cheap speakers almost always have a very low efficiency rating.

A speakers efficiency tells you how many decibels of sound the speaker can turn those watts into...

This is why something like a 2 or 3 watt amp on a 4x12 of EVM12L's will stomp a 15 watt amp with a really cheap single 10 or single 12 and it won't matter if both amps are tube or solid state or what.

Watts are watts and they measure heat dissipation
Decibels are decibels and they measure sound

Now, I will put this here one more time because it is very important to remember...You CAN NOT hear a watt

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

Why would anyone consider this question without specifying the exact same speaker load for both amps? Otherwise, it's just examples of how one amp could be louder than another.

 

[mechanic1908]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

The short answer to the original question is how the amps are rated. Someone posted a detailed explanation of it but that's the basic reason.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk

 

[RogerMexiko]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

Thank you all, this has been a real education for me, I know just enough now to be dangerous as they say.

However, I am still in somewhat of a quandary - when I have been in a large enough venue to take my Twin Reverb up to it's full 85Ws it is so loud as to be almost deafening. There are SS amps for sale.reported to be 300 or even 500 watts. If the watt to db ratio is linear then a 500W amp at full volume could result in permanent hearing loss to the unfortunate guitarist standing in front of the speakers.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

The watt to dB ratio isn't linear.

 

[RogerMexiko]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

The watt to dB ratio isn't linear.

I have searched but am unable to find a graph showing the relationship between watts and dBs. Does anyone have a link or a pic of this graph. I think that seeing this would clear a lot of my confusion here.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

Keep in mind the only thing that changes on this chart is amplifier power. You have to have the same speaker, cabinet, room, placement, etc. I'm also assuming the exact same input signal was used at each power level.

View attachment 78494

 

[RogerMexiko]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

Keep in mind the only thing that changes on this chart is amplifier power. You have to have the same speaker, cabinet, room, placement, etc. I'm also assuming the exact same input signal was used at each power level.

View attachment 78494

Not linear as you said 100 - 50W 3dB change - 50 - 25W 3dB change. Thank you. By chance do you have the equation for this curve so I could calculate high watt amps?

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

I have searched but am unable to find a graph showing the relationship between watts and dBs. Does anyone have a link or a pic of this graph. I think that seeing this would clear a lot of my confusion here.

Repeat after me: Watts are a unit of power. Decibels are a unit of sound pressure. There is no function directly linking the two.

Now say it to yourself 10 times.

 

[EDX]

Re: why is a 5W tube amp louder than a 20W SS amp

remember kids you must always take on mind your speaker's efficiency, or else you could brought you 100watter amp with a 4x12 loaded with 90db efficiency speakers and totally be stomped on by a guy using a 50watt amp 4x12 with 102 db speakers