Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

[Lewguitar]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

Hey Lew; I'm still thinking about all the extra effort you're willing to put on just to install a p'up set. So bear with me; It's the pragmatic in me doing the talking, you know?

Anyhoo; if a customer came to me with your wish, I'd suggest two things:
1. Change the p'up's cavity foot shape from triangular to square, so just any p'up would go in there, not just Di Marzios. And you don't even need special tools to do that, a simple chisel, guided by two steady hands would work wonders, even for the unexperienced.
2. Use p'up rings to install the p'ups, specially considering that Music Man actually offers other models that do use p'up rings, so yours wouldn't really stand out like a sore thumb, if you asked me, of course.

Lew, would you consider using p'up rings to install the p'ups on the Axis?

/Peter

It’s crossed my mind. And I have no intention of ever selling the Axis. It would sure make things easier and if I did do it I could just put some Seth Lovers or Antiquitys in it.

I have a set of zebra Seth Lovers that would look right.

What’s your source for high quality cream rings? Some that are the right vintage cream color? Gibson’s look right but they’re three of four times the cost of others.



Hmmm....looking at it again, maybe black rings?

 

[Discharged]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

It’s crossed my mind.

Well, you know what they say... great minds think alike!

View attachment 86951

Hmmm....looking at it again, maybe black rings?

Yep, black rings would've been my first choice.

/Peter

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

It's later. How's the crankin?

The answer is....YES!

I put Polished A2 in the 59’s and they sound like a slightly rawer version of the Seth Lovers.

Or do the Seth’s sound rawer than the 59’s?

They sound so close I’m amazed.

Not exactly the same but very close.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

Can you define 'rawer?' I'd be interested in trying this.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

Can you define 'rawer?' I'd be interested in trying this.

Well...you know when you’re playing with overdrive and you up pick a fretted note on the low E string and bend it up a little and add some finger vibrato in such a way that it creates a tone kind of like a race car burning rubber?

Jeff Beck gets that sound a lot.

It kind of squeals but at that same time it’s rubbery and stretchy sounding and doesn’t go off into a harmonic but retains a big bassy flatulent sort of quality.

I’m sure you know what I mean.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

Seth’s on the left. 59s on the right.

 

[Chickenwings]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

i like those axis axes. No need for rings tho. It is a hot rod racecar, not a leather armchair.

 

[esandes]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

I have a older 59 set in my 2016 Gibson Midtown Standard that have been retrofitted with some rough A2's. I don't know that I'd say they sound like Seth's but in that guitar they are pretty darn terrific!!!

I had originally bought a set of Seth's for the Midtown & Antiquity's afterwards. Both sets sounded good in it but the A2 59's were pretty much exactly what I wanted & they were wax potted which was definitely nice since its a Semi-Hollow!!! The best part was I already had the Vintage Blues set kicking around the house so I was able to get it where I wanted it tone wise for the cost of a couple magnets...

LOL, I now love that guitar more than my wife!!!!!

Oh snap!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

I have a older 59 set in my 2016 Gibson Midtown Standard that have been retrofitted with some rough A2's. I don't know that I'd say they sound like Seth's but in that guitar they are pretty darn terrific!!!

I had originally bought a set of Seth's for the Midtown & Antiquity's afterwards. Both sets sounded good in it but the A2 59's were pretty much exactly what I wanted & they were wax potted which was definitely nice since its a Semi-Hollow!!! The best part was I already had the Vintage Blues set kicking around the house so I was able to get it where I wanted it tone wise for the cost of a couple magnets...

LOL, I now love that guitar more than my wife!!!!!

Well the woman in my life had to put up with a lot of loud guitar playing last night so she gets all of my love.

But back to the subject.

When I put A2’s in my 59’s I went with polished magnets because that’s whats in the Seth’s.

I have Roughcast A2 in a set of Pearly Gates and I think polished gives a more articulate sound...especially to the neck pickup.

But those pickups sound great too!

After spending a lot of time comparing the A2 modded 59’s with the double cream A2 Seth’s in my other Singlecut, I’ve settled on a couple of observations.

#1, they sound very similar.

#2, the neck 59 sounds just a tad brighter and clearer than the neck Seth. A tiny bit more metallic but not in a bad way. More in a Fender Strat way...but just the tiniest bit in that direction.

I’m extremely pleased with the results.

I absolutely like the way the 59’s sound now, better than they did with Roughcast A5 they’ve had for a year or so, and better than the original Polished A5 they came with.

 

[Mincer]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

Seth’s on the left. 59s on the right.View attachment 86980

I kinda dig that Blackmore-ish Strat back there!

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

I kinda dig that Blackmore-ish Strat back there!

The white one? That one has a Surfer in the neck and a A2 Custom Shop Hot For Tele bridge that MJ wound.

5 way switch and in the #3 middle position I get the neck pickup by itself.

#1 is the bridge hot and #5 is the bridge vintage.

It’s set up for slide. Kind of like Lowell George’s Strat but without a middle pickup.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

Great, now I gotta get another set of ‘59s to mess with.

Lew, please don’t add rings or worse chisel the guitar. You can clip the corners on pickups in a couple minutes with nippers.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

Great, now I gotta get another set of ‘59s to mess with.

Lew, please don’t add rings or worse chisel the guitar. You can clip the corners on pickups in a couple minutes with nippers.

OK...I won’t.

Besides, I’m loving these A2 59’s in that PRS SE. It’s never sounded better.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

Why not try some DiMarzios in the Axis first? Have you tried the PAF 36th Anniversary? I love the neck version, and I've heard good things about the bridge version as well.

Or PAF Masters.

Or Air Classics.

Or Suhrs. The SSV and the Thornbucker have those same triangular tabs that DiMarzios have.

Duncan PAF's are nice, but they're not the only good-sounding PAF-types.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

Why not try some DiMarzios in the Axis first? Have you tried the PAF 36th Anniversary? I love the neck version, and I've heard good things about the bridge version as well.

Or PAF Masters.

Or Air Classics.

Or Suhrs. The SSV and the Thornbucker have those same triangular tabs that DiMarzios have.

Duncan PAF's are nice, but they're not the only good-sounding PAF-types.

Thanks!

It has Dimarzios now. Never been a fan.

Besides, I’m getting old...I know what I like. And what I like are A2 PAF style humbuckers.

Seth’s and Antiquitys give me the sound that I want to hear. As do the Tom Holmes A2 humbuckers in my ES-335.

And now these A2 59’s do as well.

They’re just different enough from the others for a little variety.

 

[Rex_Rocker]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

It has hot overwound DiMarzios now, though, right?

Each to his own.

I'm not too big on DiMarzios overall either, but I still stand by the PAF 36th Anni neck. I definitely wouldn't say it sounds like your typical Alnico 5 PAF with the Virtual Vintage and Airbucker stuff. It's much smoother. Almost like the mental image I have of A2. Sorta.

Though I can't say I have much experience with A2 Duncans other than the Slash Bridge (not a fan) or the Phat Cat Neck (love it!), but neither of those seem to be what you're looking for.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

Spent another half hour or so playing and comparing both with overdrive and without.

Both guitars have new strings and the same gauge.

The pickup sets are each adjusted the same distance from the strings, as are the pole pieces.

The 59’s definitely drive the amp a little harder and are a little louder compared to the Seth’s.

The 59’s have a slightly more raw sound...a more driving sound.

They sound even better than I’d hoped!

 

[Discharged]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

Spent another half hour or so playing and comparing both with overdrive and without.

Both guitars have new strings and the same gauge.

The pickup sets are each adjusted the same distance from the strings, as are the pole pieces.

The 59’s definitely drive the amp a little harder and are a little louder compared to the Seth’s.

The 59’s have a slightly more raw sound...a more driving sound.

They sound even better than I’d hoped!

Well, the '59N has 5% more turns of wire then the SethN. And that's noticeable, so no surprises there. You certainly do have ears, and that's a fact.

I didn't notice an A2'59B being more "driving" than a stock SethB. maybe the magnets you used with the '59s were charged higher than the ones in the Seths? That's the only plausible explanation I could find.

/Peter

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

The only DiMarzio I think Lew would care for is the PAF '59, but they get square feet as well. I get it though, once you know what you like, one is reluctant to go on the pickup hunt again.

Lew, tell me more about the A2 in the '59. I am very familiar with the Ants and love them of course, so how different (good or bad) is the tweaked '59 set? You mentioned a polished magnet, so what is in there stock? How do the two compare to the rough cast A2?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Will a 59 set with Alnico 2 magnets sound more like Seth Lovers?

The only DiMarzio I think Lew would care for is the PAF '59, but they get square feet as well. I get it though, once you know what you like, one is reluctant to go on the pickup hunt again.

Lew, tell me more about the A2 in the '59. I am very familiar with the Ants and love them of course, so how different (good or bad) is the tweaked '59 set? You mentioned a polished magnet, so what is in there stock? How do the two compare to the rough cast A2?

Busy day yesterday. Didn’t spend much time online. Haven’t mentioned that my cancer returned last summer and I’ve been doing chemo again and dealing with all of the side effects. No hair loss but plenty of weakness and nausea. But last month was hopefully the last. I have to do a cat scan to verify, but my doctor thinks I’m back in remission. So I’m feeling so much better again that Valerie and I headed for the mountains and hiked and played all day...then came home, watched Shawn White win the gold and went to bed. Life is good again.

So...

The regular magnets in the 59 are polished A5. The treble is a little sharp, the mids are there but a little thinner than A2, and some find the bass a little strong. I like them, but some describe that sound as scooped.

I wanted to see if I could get closer to Clapton’s Cream sound so I put Roughcast A5 in them and they seemed to round and warm the treble some, and fatten up the mids and get more of that slightly flatulent horn like sound I like.

But compared to my Uncovered Seth Lovers, they still sounded a bit thin and I didn’t play the PRS I had them in very often.

I knew I wanted to try A2 and went with Polished A2 rather than Roughcast A2 because I wanted them to sound like my Seth’s.

And they do. The 59’s seem to drive my amp just a little harder though. Especially the neck 59.

I really like them and truthfully, it’s going to be hard to pull them out of this PRS SE because that guitar has always been my least favorite and now it sounds killer!

But I want to replace the EVH approved Dimarzios (Too far from a PAF sound. Too strong for me. Not enough breath. Too thick and smooth for my tastes.) in my Ernie Ball Axis and didn’t want to carve up a set of Seth’s or Antiquitys.

I don’t know if I can bring myself to remove them from this test guitar right away tho. I’m having too much fun with it and it’s never sounded better. Even better than it did when I had a set of Seth Lovers in it.

I think the 59’s retained a little of the treble edge they’re known for compared to the uncovered Seths in my other SE, but the 59’s are still smoother and thicker sounding now then they were with either set of A5 magnets.

I got the sound I was looking for. They sound more like Seth’s than they do 59’s, but there’s still some of that 59 personality there.

Regarding Rough A2 vs. Polished A2...the polished version seems more articulate. Clearer. A little less warm and slightly more of a sizzle to the treble. I like the Roughcast A2 in my Antiquitys but in my Custom Shop PG’s I eventually wanted more clarity and edge from the neck pickup...more like a regular PG. The bridge pickup was fine.

Does that help?