Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

[58Mike]

I would like to be able to record a guitar and make my pickup selections during the mix phase, *after* the guitar has been recorded. In other words, I would record the guitar with separate sends from all four coils (two coils from each pickup) running out of the guitar to four channels of ProTools. So then during the mix, I'd have the option or whether I'd want the neck or bridge pickup, or even if I'd want single coil or humbucker for each.

My thinking is that I'd put in two humbuckers. I assume there are two leads plus a ground for each. I'd join the two grounds and connect those to the shield of a four-conductor cable (two conductors for each pickup) that I'd route out of my guitar and into my mixer. I'd record four channels for guitar, one for each coil. Then I'd have the option afterwards where I could combine coils for a humbucker sound, or run one or two single coils or flip phase or whatever.

I know this sounds crazy that anyone would want this possibility and I'm sure the idea of not getting your tone set during the recording process is sacrilege, but I record music for TV that has to be done really fast. (Sadly, "fast" is more important than "good.") With software like Guitar Rig, where I no longer have to commit to amp settings until the mix, it would also speed things up a bit to not have to commit to a Strat or Les Paul either. Just one guitar, play the part and move on. The "tone" all comes later.

Does this sound like a workable idea? Would combining coils after the fact still sound like a humbucker? Or is there some magic that has to happen within the pickup itself?

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

A big problem I see right away is that the humbuckers aren't going to cancel hum. You're basically recording four single coils in each take, and they will probably make noise. There's software that can help cancel it, though, and maybe you've already thought of it.

The other thing is that the sounds of the two coils in a humbucker don't simply get superimposed on one another, the way a mixer does. Combine them the way a guitar's circuitry normally does, either series or parallel, and for practical purposes you are making a third pickup with a new sound.

Have you looked at Line 6 Variax? It might do what you're wanting.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

I had the pickup wires stick out of a Strat pickguard and uses crocodile clips on them. Shielding is the issue but can be done.


ETA: the hum canceling should still work if you mix the two tracks later. However, the missing volume and tone pots from the guitar will hurt and cannot easily be emulated.

 

[Amplifuzz]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

If speed is a concern I'd say it's quicker to commit to a pickup while tracking rather than 'keeping your options open'. Use versatile enough pickups that fall between HB and SC and your only choice becomes 'neck' or 'bridge'. I thought about a similar scenario though, but I got stumped on how to recreate the 'series' wiring in a DAW, as running the two coils' audio tracks the usual way would be parallel (I think).

Edit: as a compromise, you could track the bridge and neck pickup simultaneously and decide at mixdown whether to use one, the other or both together in varying proportions, going as far as using Guitar Rig's EQs first in the chain to thin or fatten the pickup's sound before hitting the virtual amp.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

ETA: the hum canceling should still work if you mix the two tracks later. However, the missing volume and tone pots from the guitar will hurt and cannot easily be emulated.

You mean if you mix two coils that would cancel hum together in a normally wired guitar? Yeah, you're right. You'd have to keep their levels the same relative to each other and make sure polarity doesn't get flipped on one of them. Wouldn't you also have to treat the tracks as one for the purposes of processing? Would you want to mix them down to a single track once you decide to use them as a humbucker?

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

You can do it, but not while retaining your humbuckers; a humbucker would simply become two single coils, incapable of being run in series. To do it, you'd just need to wire each coil straight to its own output jack, and make sure that each circuit within the guitar is self contained. As opposed to going for the complex option of separating coils from a humbucker, why not just install a single coil somewhere on the guitar...or better yet, one of those midi pickups.

Personally, I don't think it will help you in any way, shape, or form to do that. It will give you options, but options do not necessarily make the process or the end result any better, and they certainly don't make it faster. The main reason is that as a musician, you always play to the tone and response you are getting from the instrument at any given time. Because of this, practically speaking, it will probably not often be likely that using a different pickup orientation than you were hearing at the time you were playing the track will actually sound any better.

Also – grumpy rant coming up – but anyone who would rely on such a thing probably has **** for ears and production skills in the first place. How hard is it to just pick the right pickup for the job in the first place? Having a billion options after the fact is almost never better than simply choosing the one right option before the fact. In the digital age, this whole "we'll do it in post" mentality has pervaded and weakened both the product itself, and the raw technical ability of the practitioners of, every formerly-analog practice/art. Don't get me wrong; it isn't the technology itself that causes this; it's the way it is used. People accept things as standard operating procedure solely because the technology allows it, not because it actually benefits the product or the process. It sucks. Personally, I'd be horribly embarrassed to do such a thing. I am not some musician to bow down to, but I do have pride and confidence in my ability to finish a job that I accept, without needing some technical crutch to do it.

But whatever. There are pluses and minuses to everything. I'm all for trying new, home-made things too, so why not see what happens? I'm sure it would be a fun time-wasting experiment, but of little real-world value (i.e. it would not increase your income vs time, or make your process any easier). As long as you approach it like that, I don't think you could be disappointed in the end.

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

The issue isn't the mechanics. It is easy enough to manage and the idea is creative. IMO, the reality (and you did not ask this so forgive my input) is that it isn't a natural way to play. We all play differently, different touch, different location, different feel when on the neck pickup versus bridge etc. We interact 'on the spot and in the moment' with the dynamics of each differently. It is the soul and heart of the guitar players expression. If you lose that during tracking, you lose a great deal IMO.

From a production standpoint, I suggest both options. Wire a guitar or a breakout box to manage the splitting and track to your hearts content. Then re-track with your main axe. Re-track with the guitar you most likely wrote the parts on to begin with. The idea seems like fun. Tedious and with little genuine or usable end result or reward, but fun. If you do it, snap some photos and share your progress. Enjoy!

Much Respect,

Rodney Gene, Austin Texas

 

[jumble jumble]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

I don't see any problem recreating the series humbucker sound. Just sum the two tracks in ProTools.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

To me, it doesn't sound like a process that will enhance the tone of the guitar or the expression of the player. I can't see how it is even going to save any time (in fact it sounds like it would take more time in the recording process and a great deal more time in the mixing). You're going to lose the soul and character of the guitar. Might as well just use a keyboard with a synthesized guitar setting.

IMO, the best solution is to pick the right guitar/pickups/player for the job in the outset.

But what do I know, I'm not an engineer.

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

I don't see any problem recreating the series humbucker sound. Just sum the two tracks in ProTools.

Come to think of it, the OP can never have a series sound this way only hum-cancelling parallel. Audio tracks don't sum in series, only parallel in the most literal sense. The point is mute. 2 single coils, RW/RP recorded separately and summed will never be in series...on tape.

Much Respect,

Rodney Gene, Austin Texas

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

Can somebody with recording capabilities and humbuckers with a coil splitter, post two tracks? (RW/RP) I only have STK single coils or my Gretsch Filtertrons right now. Even though these two coils will be in 'parallel' literally, they will not sound like a humbucker wired in parallel. This is where it gets interesting IMO.

Much Respect,

Rodney Gene, Austin Texas

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

I don't see any problem recreating the series humbucker sound. Just sum the two tracks in ProTools.

That will still just give you two single coils stacked, not a humbucker. To make a humbucker sound like a humbucker, one coil needs to go right into the other coil. You can't just add the two singles after the fact and expect to get the same sound as a real humbucker in the guitar.

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

Also – grumpy rant coming up – but anyone who would rely on such a thing probably has **** for ears and production skills in the first place. How hard is it to just pick the right pickup for the job in the first place? Having a billion options after the fact is almost never better than simply choosing the one right option before the fact. In the digital age, this whole "we'll do it in post" mentality has pervaded and weakened both the product itself, and the raw technical ability of the practitioners of, every formerly-analog practice/art. Don't get me wrong; it isn't the technology itself that causes this; it's the way it is used. People accept things as standard operating procedure solely because the technology allows it, not because it actually benefits the product or the process. It sucks. Personally, I'd be horribly embarrassed to do such a thing. I am not some musician to bow down to, but I do have pride and confidence in my ability to finish a job that I accept, without needing some technical crutch to do it.

But whatever. There are pluses and minuses to everything. I'm all for trying new, home-made things too, so why not see what happens? I'm sure it would be a fun time-wasting experiment, but of little real-world value (i.e. it would not increase your income vs time, or make your process any easier). As long as you approach it like that, I don't think you could be disappointed in the end.

In my brief history on the planet, this is said of all experimental techniques/technology etc. I personally use Teles and Fender amps primarily and stick to semi-traditional ways of recording as a producer, but I am grateful for all of those who tinker in the studio, garage, bench, lab etc. It is people who think like this (the OP) who are doing exactly as other path finders have done (including the Beatles and George Martin). 'Options' are never the problem, they are a godsend. It is only making up our minds about them that can be the learning curve. Sometimes the creative process is where we define or more greatly crystalize our vision for what we want. Sometime we are not sure what we want as artists and these experiments help us gain clarity. "Horribly embarrassed' doesn't cross my mind when considering creative ideas or planning. If any artisan has ideas, let them come forth and play out. (that's what Leo Fender did) Often times, the initial idea is just a stepping stone for something much greater. It opens our channel to think creatively about something. I think the idea is creative and can lead to many cool layering ideas at the end of the day. I for one am grateful that we as a society have not run the course with musical technology yet.

Much Respect,

Rodney Gene, Austin Texas

 

[tubecrunch]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

A+b does not equal c in this scenario. Part of what makes a typical 2 pickup sound is the fact that the output from both sources is being forced into the same out put, thereby by creating different peaks and dips in the frequency response. I would love to hear your results, but I highly doubt even the two pickup combo would respond the same as a traditional setup. I hope it gives you something totally unique.

 

[jumble jumble]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

That will still just give you two single coils stacked, not a humbucker. To make a humbucker sound like a humbucker, one coil needs to go right into the other coil. You can't just add the two singles after the fact and expect to get the same sound as a real humbucker in the guitar.

I think as long as you're recording the un-amped signal, direct, I think it should be OK. It might not sound exactly the same but I bet it'd be damn close.

EDIT: and as long as you're doing a true "sum" of the two signals - not just playing them both at the same time.

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

I think as long as you're recording the un-amped signal, direct, I think it should be OK. It might not sound exactly the same but I bet it'd be damn close.

EDIT: and as long as you're doing a true "sum" of the two signals - not just playing them both at the same time.

How do you define/perform a 'true' sum of two signals in recorded audio?

 

[GilmourD]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

Remember that a humbucker in series is electrically different, with a different impedance, inductance, etc. Thanks all reacts differently with whatever it's being input into, thus creating a different sound.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

You mean if you mix two coils that would cancel hum together in a normally wired guitar? Yeah, you're right. You'd have to keep their levels the same relative to each other and make sure polarity doesn't get flipped on one of them. Wouldn't you also have to treat the tracks as one for the purposes of processing? Would you want to mix them down to a single track once you decide to use them as a humbucker?

As people pointed out, I didn't realize we are talking about ripping apart a humbucker. That won't work as the electrical properties change.

But yes, the hum canceling would be there and you should probably not apply chorus, reverb, delay until you put them together.

 

[G0lden]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

The OP could have 4 outputs.

1. Bridge pickup screw coil.
2. Bridge pickup humbucker (both coils series).
3. Neck pickup screw coil.
4. Neck pickup humbucker (both coils series).

That should get him 4 different sounds that could be independently chosen later. You could, in theory, have a guitar sound like just about anything.


Isn't there modeling software out there that can make any guitar sound like something totally different. Like, for example, the software they stick inside that Gibson Firebird X thing. It has 3 single coils, but can sound like literally anything.

 

[Rodney Gene]

Re: Wiring a guitar so all coil leads are sent outside the guitar

The OP could have 4 outputs.

1. Bridge pickup screw coil.
2. Bridge pickup humbucker (both coils series).
3. Neck pickup screw coil.
4. Neck pickup humbucker (both coils series).

That should get him 4 different sounds that could be independently chosen later.

You wouldn't get two coils in series while shorting out one coil at the same time.
OP would have signal from 4 independent single coils to work with at the outputs.

Since his performances would be the same take for all 4 tracks, it would hardly even thicken up the tone much. It would increase volume when combined of course, but unless each track was treated in a unique way (similar to parallel compression), it would be a small reward.

Much Respect,

Rodney Gene, Austin Texas