Wiring questions on Fender Player Plus Nashville Telecaster Conversion...

[chuck3]

Hello; just joined, so first post here abouts! Just a bit of a back story personally; I am a pro player, (I guess semi-pro nowadays, what with Covid and all) and have been playing for about 50 years! So, I'm kinda old? And, I love Seymour Duncan pickups and have them in all of my guitars!

I recently acquired a new Fender Player Plus series, Nashville model Telecaster. (A great new series from Fender!) It comes with Fender 'noiseless' pickups; which I guess are 'stacked' or humbucking style pickups? All in all, they may not be too bad sounding, but they're just not my cup of tea!

I've decide to convert this guitar over to 'vintage' style pickups, (Seymour Duncan of course!). I've already got a Jerry Donahue for the bridge position and RWRP APS-2 for the middle position. Also, instead of the typical Telecaster style neck pickup that this guitar came with, (and I have never liked a Tele neck pickup personally), I've decided to go with a SH-2n Jazz neck Humbucker in this position! I already have a new pickgaurd ready to go, just waiting on a cover for the humbucker.

So finally to get to the heart of the matter; I may need some help with the wiring, (a diagram would be awesome)? Here's what I'm starting with: the guitar comes with a Fender 'superty-duperty' 5-way switch, and a push-pull tone knob! So you can actually get (7) seven different pickup switching combinations!!! The current (stock) switching is: (from the neck end of switch), 1) neck pickup alone, 2) neck and middle, (kind of out of phase, Strat quacky sound), 3) neck and bridge together, typical Tele combo, 4) middle and neck, (again sort of Strat quacky sound, but with a bit more treble), and 5) bridge pick up alone... As far as the 'push-pull' tone knob goes; it just adds the neck pickup to 5-way switch positions 4) & 5), so in 5-way switch position 4) for instance, when you pull up the tone knob you get all three pickups! Clever eh?

What I am hoping to to achieve with this pickup conversion is: keeping everything the same with the single coils, (bridge & middle) and adding (1) coil of the SH-2n Jazz pickup to the single coil positions where the regular Tele neck pickup would come into play. In position (1), I would want the entire SH-2n (both coils ) to play alone! Also if I could continue to utilize the push pull tone knob to engage one coil of the Humbucker that would be a plus!

My thinking is it should be straight forward to install the single coils, but since they are only (2) conductor wired, I might have to add (split-off) the connections for the 5-way switch and/or the push-pull tone pot? The SH-2n Jazz humbucker should be pretty straight forward since it comes with a (4) conductor harness?

What I'm thinking is; the main sounds I would use: (in no particular order) JD Tele bridge pickup, Jazz Humbucker neck pickup, Strat/middle plus JD/bridge, for quacky Strat sounds!

So folks, any helps with ideas/wiring diagram would be mucho appreciated!

Regards: Chuck3
PS: again much thanks for any help in advance! Also, I've included a photo of one of my favorite and most cherished guitars; a March/1997 Fender Custom Shop Jerry Donahue Telecaster model guitar! I'm the original/only owner, and this guitar is finished in 027/Sapphire Blue Transparent Burst, and only (2) of these were made in this color! Interestingly Jerry Donahue has the other one! I don't know if anyone has a copy of the old Fender 'Players' catalog from this era, but these guitars are pictured in it, along with the other Helecasters, players Will Ray and John Jorgensen's, Custom Shop models etc...

 

[Teleplayer]

You have a cool idea for combining the SH-2n humbucker into the Nashville wiring. Did you have any thought about the choice of 250k or 500k controls? I would suggest to change to 500k tone and volume for best sound with a neck humbucker.

I also want to confirm the stock wiring on the guitar. Are you sure it has Neck + Bridge in position 3? The specs on the Fender site says it is only the middle p/u in pos 3. Not really a big issue if you have the push-pull control to add the neck pickup into positions 1 and 2.

If keeping a standard 5 way blade, I had an idea for a wiring scheme:

Push Pull - DOWN.
1. Bridge.
2. Bridge + Middle
3. Middle
4. Neck(Screw coil) + Middle
5. Neck Humbucker

Push Pull - UP.
1. Bridge.
2. Bridge + Neck(Slug Coil)
3. Neck (Slug Coil)
4. Neck(Parrallel)
5 Neck (Screw Coil)

The idea of this scheme is positions 2 and 4 are hum cancelling in both cases. The Slug coil of the SH-2n has north magnetic polarity, which is the same a RW/RP single coil.

Let me know if you prefer something else, as there are a number of ways to tackle it.

 

[Teleplayer]

Alternative scheme, which is a simpler version.

Push Pull - DOWN.
1. Bridge.
2. Bridge + Middle
3. Middle
4. Neck(Screw coil) + Middle
5. Neck Humbucker

Push Pull - UP.
1. Bridge + Neck Humbucker
2. Bridge + Middle + Neck Humbucker
3. Neck Humbucker + Middle
4. Neck(Screw coil) + Middle
5. Neck Humbucker

 

[beaubrummels]

Welcome to the forum.

Beautiful guitar. I don't see a middle pickup?

 

[jeremy]

thats a jd tele, not the nashville

 

[chuck3]

You have a cool idea for combining the SH-2n humbucker into the Nashville wiring. Did you have any thought about the choice of 250k or 500k controls? I would suggest to change to 500k tone and volume for best sound with a neck humbucker.

I also want to confirm the stock wiring on the guitar. Are you sure it has Neck + Bridge in position 3? The specs on the Fender site says it is only the middle p/u in pos 3. Not really a big issue if you have the push-pull control to add the neck pickup into positions 1 and 2.

If keeping a standard 5 way blade, I had an idea for a wiring scheme:

Push Pull - DOWN.
1. Bridge.
2. Bridge + Middle
3. Middle
4. Neck(Screw coil) + Middle
5. Neck Humbucker

Push Pull - UP.
1. Bridge.
2. Bridge + Neck(Slug Coil)
3. Neck (Slug Coil)
4. Neck(Parrallel)
5 Neck (Screw Coil)

The idea of this scheme is positions 2 and 4 are hum cancelling in both cases. The Slug coil of the SH-2n has north magnetic polarity, which is the same a RW/RP single coil.

Let me know if you prefer something else, as there are a number of ways to tackle it.

Mucho thanks my friend! Sorry for the rambling description by the way, much simpler to understand with your style! So, I will try again:

Stock wiring/switching, (with push-pull down): 1) Bridge, 2) Bridge + Middle, 3) Middle, 4) Middle + Neck, 5) Neck...

With push-pull switch up, (engaged), the Neck pickup is added to positions 1) and 2).

Almost sure the guitar comes stock with 500K pots, I believe on most of the Fender's with noiseless pickups they have done this?

I like your ideas about the hum-cancelling possibilities! Would definitely want the polarities of all the pickups to work together!

In summary; my priorites are for the following switch options (if possible): 1) Bridge, 2) Bridge + Middle, 5) Neck Humbucker (both coils). I'm open for offers/suggestions for the rest of the switching options? What do you think? As far as the push-pull goes, I guess it would be cool if it just engages one of the Neck-Humbucker coils?

I would like to just continue with the stock 5-way switch and the push-pull control!

Thanks in advance for your help, and if you can do a wiring diagram that would be very helpful!

Regards: Chuck3

 

[chuck3]

Welcome to the forum.

Beautiful guitar. I don't see a middle pickup?

Here you go:

Regards: Chuck3

 

[chuck3]

Welcome to the forum.

Beautiful guitar. I don't see a middle pickup?

Many thanks by the way! Regards: Chuck3

 

[jeremy]

that jd tele is sweeeet!

 

[Teleplayer]

Thanks for the pics of your Telecasters and wiring. I noticed you have the Push-Pull switch on your Tone control.
Although my diagram shows the switch on the volume control it does not make any difference.

 

[Teleplayer]

Option 3 - Always has the neck humbucker in position 5. Just let me know if you would like a diagram for this.

Push Pull = DOWN.
1. Bridge
2. Bridge + Middle
3. Middle
4. Neck(Screw coil) + Middle
5. Neck Humbucker

Push Pull = UP.
1. Bridge
2. Bridge + Neck(Slug coil)
3. Neck (Slug coil)
4. Neck (Slug coil)
5. Neck Humbucker

 

[chuck3]

Option 3 - Always has the neck humbucker in position 5. Just let me know if you would like a diagram for this.

Push Pull = DOWN.
1. Bridge
2. Bridge + Middle
3. Middle
4. Neck(Screw coil) + Middle
5. Neck Humbucker

Push Pull = UP.
1. Bridge
2. Bridge + Neck(Slug coil)
3. Neck (Slug coil)
4. Neck (Slug coil)
5. Neck Humbucker

WOW! Thanks so much! And yes since I would like the Neck Humbucker on switch position 5) at all times, another of your awesome diagrams would be much appreciated!

I had a couple of questions, if you'll humor me? 1) Your diagram has a 270k resistor on the bridge pickup; what's this for? And 2) the 0.022uF capacitor on the tone control, what's that doing? Not sure all what I've got on the stock control assembly, so I'll have to what until I tear into it, but I will just go ahead and order the resistor and capacitor above so I'm ready to go when my humbucker cover gets here!

Also, if it's an easy fix with the wiring diagram; can you show the push-pull pot on the tone control? If not no worries! I'm just getting old and I'm sure I'll just mess up the wires when I get to soldering etc!

Again, thanks so much for your help!

Regards: Chuck3

PS: I'm looking forward to watching the OZ F1 race now that it's back on finally!

 

[Teleplayer]

WOW! Thanks so much! And yes since I would like the Neck Humbucker on switch position 5) at all times, another of your awesome diagrams would be much appreciated!

I had a couple of questions, if you'll humor me? 1) Your diagram has a 270k resistor on the bridge pickup; what's this for? And 2) the 0.022uF capacitor on the tone control, what's that doing? Not sure all what I've got on the stock control assembly, so I'll have to what until I tear into it, but I will just go ahead and order the resistor and capacitor above so I'm ready to go when my humbucker cover gets here!

Hi Chuck, the 270k Resistor is an an idea from Fender they use on their older telecaster wiring diagram such as "American Telecaster HS 0118600" . When Fender install 500k controls for use with a neck humbucker, they also wire in a 270k load resistor on the bridge pickup. The intention is to make the tone from the bridge pickup equivalent to what you get on a stock telecaster using 250k controls. It may be a good idea to get other values, such as 270k, 330k, 390k, 470k if you are going to order them yourself. Changing the load resistor makes it possible to fine tune the brightness of the bridge pickup, to get a better tonal match when you flip the selector switch between bridge and neck. Its hard to guess which one is the best choice until you try it out. I selected 270k because its the same value that Fender put in their guitars, but it may be reasonable to start with 330k if you install a warmer sounding Alnico 2 lead pickup. It would really depend on the pickup choice and the way you use the neck and bridge pickups with your effects rig.

0.022uF is the tone capacitor value. My opinion is that 0.022uF is a good value for use with a neck humbucker. If you have a larger value, the tone control curve will cut into the mids more aggressively and loose clarity. Normally Fender use 0.022uF so I'd be surprised if you need to change it. If you see a numerical code on the tone cap of "223", then you have the right one.

 

[Teleplayer]

Diagram for Option 3.

 

[chuck3]

Hi Chuck, the 270k Resistor is an an idea from Fender they use on their older telecaster wiring diagram such as "American Telecaster HS 0118600" . When Fender install 500k controls for use with a neck humbucker, they also wire in a 270k load resistor on the bridge pickup. The intention is to make the tone from the bridge pickup equivalent to what you get on a stock telecaster using 250k controls. It may be a good idea to get other values, such as 270k, 330k, 390k, 470k if you are going to order them yourself. Changing the load resistor makes it possible to fine tune the brightness of the bridge pickup, to get a better tonal match when you flip the selector switch between bridge and neck. Its hard to guess which one is the best choice until you try it out. I selected 270k because its the same value that Fender put in their guitars, but it may be reasonable to start with 330k if you install a warmer sounding Alnico 2 lead pickup. It would really depend on the pickup choice and the way you use the neck and bridge pickups with your effects rig.

0.022uF is the tone capacitor value. My opinion is that 0.022uF is a good value for use with a neck humbucker. If you have a larger value, the tone control curve will cut into the mids more aggressively and loose clarity. Normally Fender use 0.022uF so I'd be surprised if you need to change it. If you see a numerical code on the tone cap of "223", then you have the right one.

Hello again; thanks so much! I figured that was what was going on with the resistor etc! Now I am confused about something here though: why wouldn't the Middle pickup (a single-coil Strat type) be also run through a resistor? Seems like the same issues concerning brightness would apply?

I have taken your advice and ordered all the resistor's you've suggested; makes a lot of sense!

As far as effects rigs etc go; while I do use a pedalboard, (sparingly) my goal first and foremost is starting with a good clean sound! Everything else comes afterwards, and is easy in my mind!

The (3) pickups I will be using are the ones I mentioned in my OP; 1) the Jerry Donahue bridge pickup, 2) a RWRP APS-2 middle pickup, and 3) a SH-2n/Jazz neck humbucker pickup. And my goal with all three pickups, would be to get 'Vintage' style sounds from each.

One other important question (in my mind) is: will I be able to use the tone control in all of these switching positions? Right now with the 'stock' guitar setup, the tone control works in ALL positions! I really like having this feature! I am asking this question because; on my Custom Shop JD Tele, in some switch positions the tone control does not work! Something I'm not exactly fond of!

I just want to be sure you know how much your help is appreciated; if I happen to make it to Sidney (on this go 'round) I'm going to be buying you a few rounds of your favorite cold (or warm) beverage!

Thanks again; Regards: Chuck3

 

[Teleplayer]

Thanks for your kind words. For me its a puzzle to solve when I have spare time. Even if the results are not perfect the first time, its possible to evaluate and change.

To answer your question: yes the tone control works in all positions. For the bridge pickup, using the tone control is an alternative to using a lower value load resistor, so the idea is to find a balance that gives good tone from each pickup position.

Ideally the A2P middle pickup should be run with some extra resistor as well. This issue always comes up when you mix humbuckers and single coils, but there is a limit to how many connections you can put on a standard 5-way blade switch. In the diagram the middle pickup is ONLY running with the resistor in Position 2. I wouldn't add a second resistor for the middle pickup because it will be doubling-up in position 2. You may not need the same value resistor for the middle pickup depending on how you use it.
There are some possible solutions:
1) Adjust the middle pickup height a bit closer to the strings to take some brightness away.
2) Use the tone control rolled off
3) Use a 5-way Superswitch, but only the narrow type that fits a Telecaster route. It allows more options, but be aware they do not have the same quality of action as a regular 5-way blade.

 

[chuck3]

Thanks for your kind words. For me its a puzzle to solve when I have spare time. Even if the results are not perfect the first time, its possible to evaluate and change.

To answer your question: yes the tone control works in all positions. For the bridge pickup, using the tone control is an alternative to using a lower value load resistor, so the idea is to find a balance that gives good tone from each pickup position.

Ideally the A2P middle pickup should be run with some extra resistor as well. This issue always comes up when you mix humbuckers and single coils, but there is a limit to how many connections you can put on a standard 5-way blade switch. In the diagram the middle pickup is ONLY running with the resistor in Position 2. I wouldn't add a second resistor for the middle pickup because it will be doubling-up in position 2. You may not need the same value resistor for the middle pickup depending on how you use it.
There are some possible solutions:
1) Adjust the middle pickup height a bit closer to the strings to take some brightness away.
2) Use the tone control rolled off
3) Use a 5-way Superswitch, but only the narrow type that fits a Telecaster route. It allows more options, but be aware they do not have the same quality of action as a regular 5-way blade.

Hello Mr Teleplayer; as before thank you for your help!

I've been thinking about your suggestions, and considering my options! And as luck would have it, I happened to have a look through my secret, hidden, and forgotten, (and well, who know's where I put that) stash, and lo and behold I have a brand new Fender 'superity-duperity' Superswitch!

So, I guess, additional possibilities have appeared? I've thought about your idea of using a resistor (as needed) for each pickup, (or would that only be needed on the single coils?), and that sounds like the right way to go! Also, as I mentioned before, I would like the tone control to work at all times.

I have been getting every thing ready for the transformation, just waiting on the resistor order to get in town, maybe another few days!

So, I was wondering if you could please make me one (1) more diagram with your ideas, using the 'Superswitch' and the resistor's (as needed/recommended) for my final effort at transforming this Hecho in Mexico Telecaster?



Just about ready to go! SH2-n Jazz neck, and RWRP Alnico Pro II middle pickups! A Jerry Donahue Tele p/u will go in the bridge.

Thanks in advance for all your help, Regards: Chuck3

PS: you're right about 'the action' on the 'Superswitch'!

 

[Teleplayer]

Hi Chuck, Nice to see your cool collection of parts. Unfortunately my free time disappeared recently. I'm not sure when I will be able to work on a diagram for you, but I think it may have to wait until the weekend. If you like to try the last version of the wiring, its up to you. I don't know for sure the APS-2 pickup is like with 500k, but I think it could be OK (?).
Otherwise the first step is to figure out what combinations you would like as the default with the push-pull in the down position, then I can look at the wiring design.

 

[chuck3]

Hi Chuck, Nice to see your cool collection of parts. Unfortunately my free time disappeared recently. I'm not sure when I will be able to work on a diagram for you, but I think it may have to wait until the weekend. If you like to try the last version of the wiring, its up to you. I don't know for sure the APS-2 pickup is like with 500k, but I think it could be OK (?).
Otherwise the first step is to figure out what combinations you would like as the default with the push-pull in the down position, then I can look at the wiring design.

Hello; thanks for your reply! Hey, no hurry, no worries... Sorry to hear your free time recently disappeared!

As far as an answer to your question about the default (with the push-pull down) pickups positions etc: 1) bridge, 2) bridge & middle, 3) middle, 4) middle & (1) of the neck humbucker coils, (I don't know which one, I guess whichever would be 'in phase' with the middle pickup? And, 5) the entire neck humbucker (both coils) only!

Also if you're too busy with life etc, don't worry about it, the last diagram you posted gets me close I guess, I will just have to figure out the differences when using the 'Superswitch' and the possible need for the deferent resistor's etc...

I will do some research and see if I can find a reference book on pickup wiring in general in the mean time!

Thanks again!

Regards: Chuck

 

[Teleplayer]

Hi Chuck, I've been thinking about the Super-switch wiring and hopefully came up with something to suit what you had in mind. The Push-Pull function only works in position 3, so you can select the combination of Neck(coil split) & Bridge. Its a variation on the version with the stock 5-way posted earlier. Just let me know if anything is unclear or missing.

Unfortunately its really tight for space to install this wiring into a Telecaster control cavity. There isn't much space for the wires, so they need to be roughly the correct length. Placing links across several of the lugs on the super-switch can be quite tricky to do depending on your experience with soldering. The final challenge is to place the load resistors from the correct lug on the superswitch, so they can be grounded at the volume control, without shorting out any other contact. (Its best if the resistor's leads are trimmed and bend to shape before installing). Overall I would rate it as 8/10 difficulty for installation. Its probably far from ideal as a project if you are learning to solder IMO. The previous version with the standard 5-way blade is a bit easier.

The load resistors connected for each switch position:

Position 1: 330k
Position 2: 330k
Position 3: 470k
Position 4: 470k
Position 5: None