wmg 85 and blackouts, which blackout?

[Toner]

I have an emg 85 in the bridge and love it (hate the 81), but i'd like to try a blackout in the bridge, but which one? I can't find FULL specs on it here on the SD site (says n/a and haven't heard from support) and I want to compare the blackout neck and bridge pickups to the specs of the emg 85 (before purchasing), which are:

Logo Color Gold
Resonant Frequency (kHz) 2.55
RMS Output Voltage 1.25
Peak Output Voltage 1.75
Output Noise (dBV) -89
Output Impedance (Kohm) 10
Current @ 9V (Microamps) 80
Battery Life (Hours) 3000

I would appreciate any info! :naughty:

 

[Zerberus]

Re: wmg 85 and blackouts, which blackout?

The Blackout neck is the "improved 85", AFAIK

Publicly available specs can be found here: http://www.seymourduncan.com/compareTones/matrix.asp, but you´ve found those already.

But there aren´t as many specs as on the EMG site, partly not to let the cat out of the bag, and partly because specs alone don´t really mean anything from a tonal perspective (esp. ones such as Current draw and Battery life, and the DC resistance [which is marked with N/A on ALL SD Actives because it´s meaningless on any pickup with an internal preamp, as it´s the impedance of the preamp and not of the coils])

 

[Toner]

Re: wmg 85 and blackouts, which blackout?

Aren't those all specs that someone with the pickup could measure though? I'm not THAT electrically smart to test things like that, I can wire a guitar like mad though!

 

[Zerberus]

Re: wmg 85 and blackouts, which blackout?

Not really..

For ex. the output voltages will differ at even the minutest difference in setup (In other words, lilke Dimarzios mV values, they´re worthless when comparing to PUs of other manufacturers). This is because they may use a different string brand, model and guage; pickup height; pick brand, material and guage, attack strength or any number of factors in their test rig. I´ve gotten values between 100 and 500 millivolts from the same pickup, just by varying my attack.. now imagine how big the difference could be if we swapped picks or strings on top of that and set the PU higher or lower

The "Output Noise" (Most likely meaning what audiophiles call the Sound to Noise ratio the way I see it) is immeasurable outside of an electronics lab. But the Blackouts are supposed to have something like 18dB more then EMGs IIRC.

Impedance, again, could not be more irrelevant, becasue it´s an active pickup and therefore by design Low-Z. And again, it´s only the impedancce of the Preamp that can be measured without dissecting one.

Essentially the resonant peak is the only spec EMG provides that could actually be compared sensefully, even battery life is dependent on multiple factors (most notable for most would be how many pickups are in the guitar and are there any onboard doohickeys like an EXP or SPC suckling on the battery´s terminal as well)

I´m not trying to discourage you per se, but the specs listed are for the most part the ones that are the least relevant in this situation :beerchug:

 

[Toner]

Re: wmg 85 and blackouts, which blackout?

Thanks, it makes sense when put that way.

I just dont have a ton of cash right now, and the reason i like the 85, with the 18v mod by the way, is it's defined, clear, and not as harsh as the 81, it's like the 18v mod makes it like an emg 83 (for comparison examples).

For the blackouts, I guess I will just have to try them both out in the bridge position, because I may love the bridge blackout, guess I just have to suck up the cash and experiment on them for myself.

 

[Zerberus]

Re: wmg 85 and blackouts, which blackout?

Side note: I too much prefer the 85 to the 81, and I always run my EMGs with 18v for the additional openness and headroom.

Form all I´ve heard, I would try to get a single blackout Neck ("improved 85") and go from there... if you´re not a fan of the 81, the Blackout bridge may not be your cup of tea

 

[Toner]

Re: wmg 85 and blackouts, which blackout?

Thanks, I'll try out one of the neck blackouts first then, one more thing though, If I find the neck blackout needs a little "more" like the 85 did, can those be 18v modded too if needed?

 

[Zerberus]

Re: wmg 85 and blackouts, which blackout?

They can, but from what I understand the results are a bit different than with the EMGs, in the sense of there being a significant output increase making clean tones near impossible to get.

IIRC it was Darth Nihilus that had that issue because he left the 18V but swapped to the Blackouts, and returning to 9v put him in heaven. Apparently the preamp design is so different that it doesn´t need the extra push... But your mileage may vary in that application


I think It was this thread.. https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=103311

 

[Toner]

Re: wmg 85 and blackouts, which blackout?

cool, I like a little grit on my clean channel anyways, and the 85 naturally overdrives very nicely they way my amp is set up and the way dimebag voiced the clean chan on this amp anyways.

krankenstein, master on 7, clean on 7, low 4, mid 5, treb 8

I will definately buy a neck blackout and see what happens now. Thanks a lot for the help and info, I greatly appreciate it!!!!!!

 

[Toner]

comparisons - If anyone is curious

comparisons - If anyone is curious

I'm sure these duncans will rock!!!

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: wmg 85 and blackouts, which blackout?

Best of luck to you! Generally people like actives or they don't. So far everyone who experiences Blackouts sees them as a marked improvement, whether they loved or hated the old standards. Some "passive only" people have said we made an active they'd consider buying. Other "active lovers" tell us they'll never go back.

My most fun tests are not when I go from the oldies to the Blackouts, but rather when I switch BACK to the oldies after the Blackouts. That's when the improvements become far more apparent.

The biggest thing I can add to this thread is on the 18volts. If you are someone who already has discovered the benefits of running the old pickups on 18 volts, and you like the improvement that has been made, then you are definitely someone who will love the Blackouts. (at 9volts) You will see no need to run them at 18v.

 

[Toner]

Re: wmg 85 and blackouts, which blackout?

That's what I figured, that the blackouts at 9v would be like the emgs at 18v. Thanks for the info, I'll probably sell the jb/59 set in my schecter blackjack for a little cash.