Wound my first pickups

Zhangliqun

Questionologist
Started on single coils to keep it simple. I made two.

I bought the Stew Mac single coil kit and a couple of their neodymium boride mags for magnet charging (the A5 rod magnets come un-magnetized).

THE FIRST ONE was literally hand-wound, meaning without the help of any machine, about 4 hours to get about 8,000 turns on it. It came out at 7.7k, and I put a tap in it at 6.6k. This pickup was intended for the bridge of my Strat.

Because it was hand-wound, it was extremely scattered, looking like a ball of yarn. Plus I occasionally snagged the wire on a burr or on one of the lead eyelets and put on several hundred more turns before noticing the problem, meaning I either had to pull all the wire after the snag back off which meant the wire got bunched up in knots which meant I had to break the wire and splice it a few times.

Between these splices (taped off which took up some space) and the criss-cross scattering, the coil was, wide, fat and kinda loose and sponge-y. The tone was smooth and sweet but lacked the punch and bite I wanted. Almost like the supplied rod mags were Alnico 2 instead of the advertised A5.

THE SECOND ONE was wound using my variable speed drill. I had attempted to take the original stock bridge pu and add about 3,300 turns (for about 9.5k with a 7.2k tap) by hand but due to snags and knots, it didn't work out.

Frustrated and not being in the mood to spend another 4 hours hand-winding, I said screw it -- I cut all the original wire off this stock Fat 50's bridge pu, then ran a screw through the center holes in the flat work, then clamped the part of the screw extending below the bottom of the pickup in my drill. VOILA! Instant speed-winding. I'd seen the pickups being wound at UGD and was amazed at how fast those babies could turn without breaking or even putting any undue stress on the wire being wound onto the coil. Same with my drill. It seemed no amount of speed was capable of breaking the wire. It's apparently not quite as delicate and more forgiving than you would think.

I did learn the hard way, though, to tape off those lead eyelets and to sand down any burrs to avoid the wire snagging on them during winding.

So I ended up with a very neat, tight coil with plenty of room to spare for more wire, pretty close to the specs of 9.5k with a 7.2k tap that I wanted. The tone on this one was the dead opposite -- very bright with plenty of bite, but very hollow mids. Kind of cold, actually, even though it was almost 2k hotter. (P.S., I used #43 wire for both.)

My next trick will be to find the happy medium, and the following experiments will be employed:

1) Same wind but stopping occasionally to put some tape in to widen the coil some.

2) Start with #42 wire up to about 5.5k, then splice and wind it with #43 wire the rest of the way.

3) Wind slower with more of an effort to scatter the wind to create some of that "ball of yarn" effect/appearance. Or maybe stop the drill occasionally and hand-wind a few hundred turns.

I'll stop here before I hit the 4,000 limit.
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

I've thought about rewinding an old single coil I've got laying around. I've been kind of afraid to take on the task, but you make it sound pretty straightforward. I may have to give it a shot.

Sounds like you're well on your way to making very useable pickups.
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

Cool. Your mistakes will help those of us who want to try this. Also, it just goes to show, there's more to winding a pup than just wrapping some wire around a bobbin. ;)

btw - Give your new creations some time. I've noticed that even with Duncans, I sometimes have to "grow" into the sound.

Artie
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

The tricky part -- well, ONE of the trick parts, is taking care of the part of the coil wire that will be your lead, especially the ground lead which is at the start of the coil. If it breaks, you won't be able to find the end of it because it's lost somewhere under that haystack and you have to pull all the coil wire off and start all over again.

As for the kits, it's also a bit of a pain getting those magnets into the flatwork holes because they are intentionally a very tight fit.

I'm also seriously wondering if those rod mags really were Alnico 2.
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

ArtieToo said:
btw - Give your new creations some time. I've noticed that even with Duncans, I sometimes have to "grow" into the sound.

Artie

99% of the time true, but I'm definitely zeroed in on the sound I want and I know these two don't quite cut it, especially the brighter one.

The next step is learning how to pot the pickups. I prefer them unpotted but if I get around to making stuff good enough to sell, I'll need to know how to do that.
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

Wwo, sounds pretty interesting... would be nice to know what SD does to make a pup warmer or something...
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

This is cool stuff. I've been thinking about having someone rewind the stock singles in my Strat. They're a bit weak.

As for wax potting, singles don't really need it. Humbuckers may depending on how they're done. The Seth's are pretty good under high gain apparently until you face the speaker cab too closely. There's an article on www.guitarnuts.com on how to wax pot pickups. It's pretty straightforward.
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

amazing how good they sound too-- aint it?

I have some pups here I wind that the Blues Nazi's would start world war three to own.. its just some 50's patterns I backtraced ( unwound and discovered)

but what most folks do not know is the winding is the secret -- long as you have good magnets that are aged a little.. the rest is all in the wind and wire type..

to find some cool paterns unwind those old dead 50's pickups and memorize those patterns and use them.

and remember a fast scatter will be brighter sounding then a slow overlapping scatter even though both pickups may measure 6K-- slow overlapping scatter will be darker.

coil shapes change tone too (flat wall) ( center hump) etc..

even though I can wind what myself and my golden ear friends dubbed as better then any booteak they ever owned..

still-- when I'm onstage-- its the Seymour Duncan Broadcaster and 5-2 Nashville neck -- or I'm suc-kin-- tomatoes!
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

Zhangliqun said:
Started on single coils to keep it simple. I made two.

I bought the Stew Mac single coil kit and a couple of their neodymium boride mags for magnet charging (the A5 rod magnets come un-magnetized).

THE FIRST ONE was literally hand-wound, meaning without the help of any machine, about 4 hours to get about 8,000 turns on it. It came out at 7.7k, and I put a tap in it at 6.6k. This pickup was intended for the bridge of my Strat.

Because it was hand-wound, it was extremely scattered, looking like a ball of yarn. Plus I occasionally snagged the wire on a burr or on one of the lead eyelets and put on several hundred more turns before noticing the problem, meaning I either had to pull all the wire after the snag back off which meant the wire got bunched up in knots which meant I had to break the wire and splice it a few times.

Between these splices (taped off which took up some space) and the criss-cross scattering, the coil was, wide, fat and kinda loose and sponge-y. The tone was smooth and sweet but lacked the punch and bite I wanted. Almost like the supplied rod mags were Alnico 2 instead of the advertised A5.

THE SECOND ONE was wound using my variable speed drill. I had attempted to take the original stock bridge pu and add about 3,300 turns (for about 9.5k with a 7.2k tap) by hand but due to snags and knots, it didn't work out.

Frustrated and not being in the mood to spend another 4 hours hand-winding, I said screw it -- I cut all the original wire off this stock Fat 50's bridge pu, then ran a screw through the center holes in the flat work, then clamped the part of the screw extending below the bottom of the pickup in my drill. VOILA! Instant speed-winding. I'd seen the pickups being wound at UGD and was amazed at how fast those babies could turn without breaking or even putting any undue stress on the wire being wound onto the coil. Same with my drill. It seemed no amount of speed was capable of breaking the wire. It's apparently not quite as delicate and more forgiving than you would think.

I did learn the hard way, though, to tape off those lead eyelets and to sand down any burrs to avoid the wire snagging on them during winding.

So I ended up with a very neat, tight coil with plenty of room to spare for more wire, pretty close to the specs of 9.5k with a 7.2k tap that I wanted. The tone on this one was the dead opposite -- very bright with plenty of bite, but very hollow mids. Kind of cold, actually, even though it was almost 2k hotter. (P.S., I used #43 wire for both.)

My next trick will be to find the happy medium, and the following experiments will be employed:

1) Same wind but stopping occasionally to put some tape in to widen the coil some.

2) Start with #42 wire up to about 5.5k, then splice and wind it with #43 wire the rest of the way.

3) Wind slower with more of an effort to scatter the wind to create some of that "ball of yarn" effect/appearance. Or maybe stop the drill occasionally and hand-wind a few hundred turns.

I'll stop here before I hit the 4,000 limit.

There was a thread here

http://www.ampge.com/forum/


that discussed the quality of the Stew Mac pickup parts. They said that the quality was pretty low. Maybe that is also true of the magnets?

I'm sure there are others here who have experience winding. I'd bet Rev Donzo would be happy to give a forum brother some advice.
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

b
Zhangliqun said:
Started on single coils to keep it simple. I made two.

I bought the Stew Mac single coil kit and a couple of their neodymium boride mags for magnet charging (the A5 rod magnets come un-magnetized).

THE FIRST ONE was literally hand-wound, meaning without the help of any machine, about 4 hours to get about 8,000 turns on it. It came out at 7.7k, and I put a tap in it at 6.6k. This pickup was intended for the bridge of my Strat.

Because it was hand-wound, it was extremely scattered, looking like a ball of yarn. Plus I occasionally snagged the wire on a burr or on one of the lead eyelets and put on several hundred more turns before noticing the problem, meaning I either had to pull all the wire after the snag back off which meant the wire got bunched up in knots which meant I had to break the wire and splice it a few times.

Between these splices (taped off which took up some space) and the criss-cross scattering, the coil was, wide, fat and kinda loose and sponge-y. The tone was smooth and sweet but lacked the punch and bite I wanted. Almost like the supplied rod mags were Alnico 2 instead of the advertised A5.

THE SECOND ONE was wound using my variable speed drill. I had attempted to take the original stock bridge pu and add about 3,300 turns (for about 9.5k with a 7.2k tap) by hand but due to snags and knots, it didn't work out.

Frustrated and not being in the mood to spend another 4 hours hand-winding, I said screw it -- I cut all the original wire off this stock Fat 50's bridge pu, then ran a screw through the center holes in the flat work, then clamped the part of the screw extending below the bottom of the pickup in my drill. VOILA! Instant speed-winding. I'd seen the pickups being wound at UGD and was amazed at how fast those babies could turn without breaking or even putting any undue stress on the wire being wound onto the coil. Same with my drill. It seemed no amount of speed was capable of breaking the wire. It's apparently not quite as delicate and more forgiving than you would think.

I did learn the hard way, though, to tape off those lead eyelets and to sand down any burrs to avoid the wire snagging on them during winding.

So I ended up with a very neat, tight coil with plenty of room to spare for more wire, pretty close to the specs of 9.5k with a 7.2k tap that I wanted. The tone on this one was the dead opposite -- very bright with plenty of bite, but very hollow mids. Kind of cold, actually, even though it was almost 2k hotter. (P.S., I used #43 wire for both.)

My next trick will be to find the happy medium, and the following experiments will be employed:

1) Same wind but stopping occasionally to put some tape in to widen the coil some.

2) Start with #42 wire up to about 5.5k, then splice and wind it with #43 wire the rest of the way.

3) Wind slower with more of an effort to scatter the wind to create some of that "ball of yarn" effect/appearance. Or maybe stop the drill occasionally and hand-wind a few hundred turns.

I'll stop here before I hit the 4,000 limit.

I've been winding my own pickups for about 4 months now. Just bought a winder a couple months ago.

Its a great skill to learn...and it is REALLY satisfying to make your own pickups. I currently have my own pickups in the bridge and neck of one Les Paul, bridge of another Les Paul and in the neck and middle of my strat. Pretty nice sounding I think. With some time Duncan may have competition.

Funny cause most of the specs that are used in the brobucker are what my bridge humbuckers are like.

Everyone should give it a shot with a pickup they dont mind killing. VERY enjoyable.
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

Rev Donzo said:
amazing how good they sound too-- aint it?

I have some pups here I wind that the Blues Nazi's would start world war three to own.. its just some 50's patterns I backtraced ( unwound and discovered)

but what most folks do not know is the winding is the secret -- long as you have good magnets that are aged a little.. the rest is all in the wind and wire type..

to find some cool paterns unwind those old dead 50's pickups and memorize those patterns and use them.

and remember a fast scatter will be brighter sounding then a slow overlapping scatter even though both pickups may measure 6K-- slow overlapping scatter will be darker.

coil shapes change tone too (flat wall) ( center hump) etc..

even though I can wind what myself and my golden ear friends dubbed as better then any booteak they ever owned..

still-- when I'm onstage-- its the Seymour Duncan Broadcaster and 5-2 Nashville neck -- or I'm suc-kin-- tomatoes!

Hey Donzo you beat me to the punch
:laugh2:
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

Archer_of_Fish said:
b

I've been winding my own pickups for about 4 months now. Just bought a winder a couple months ago.

Its a great skill to learn...and it is REALLY satisfying to make your own pickups. I currently have my own pickups in the bridge and neck of one Les Paul, bridge of another Les Paul and in the neck and middle of my strat. Pretty nice sounding I think. With some time Duncan may have competition.

Funny cause most of the specs that are used in the brobucker are what my bridge humbuckers are like.

Everyone should give it a shot with a pickup they dont mind killing. VERY enjoyable.

You're in Vancouver, aren't you? Any interest in winding a pickup or two for someone else? PM me.
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

By the way, who's a good supplier of copper wire that doesn't mind selling in smaller quantities?
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

Rev Donzo said:
amazing how good they sound too-- aint it?

I have some pups here I wind that the Blues Nazi's would start world war three to own.. its just some 50's patterns I backtraced ( unwound and discovered)

but what most folks do not know is the winding is the secret -- long as you have good magnets that are aged a little.. the rest is all in the wind and wire type..

to find some cool paterns unwind those old dead 50's pickups and memorize those patterns and use them.

and remember a fast scatter will be brighter sounding then a slow overlapping scatter even though both pickups may measure 6K-- slow overlapping scatter will be darker.

coil shapes change tone too (flat wall) ( center hump) etc..

even though I can wind what myself and my golden ear friends dubbed as better then any booteak they ever owned..

still-- when I'm onstage-- its the Seymour Duncan Broadcaster and 5-2 Nashville neck -- or I'm suc-kin-- tomatoes!

I don't know, even dead 50's pickups might be hard to come by, and I'd surely get shot if I got unwinding a live one!

The scatter thing I've already figured out just from these two pickups. The hand-wound one definitely had a center hump, bulging out past the top flatwork.

Plus the narrowness of the drill-wound coil I'm sure contributed a great deal to the brightness -- a wider coil will pickup more lows and mids.

So how come you don't prefer your own pickups on-stage?
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

Rev Donzo said:
5 pound min. at $26.00 a pound

good stuff! but its 5 pounds or nada!

That's roughly what MWS Wire quoted me, though at a 6 lb. minimum. Guess I'll have to stick with Stew Mac wire for now...
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

Rev Donzo said:
amazing how good they sound too-- aint it?

I have some pups here I wind that the Blues Nazi's would start world war three to own.. its just some 50's patterns I backtraced ( unwound and discovered)

but what most folks do not know is the winding is the secret -- long as you have good magnets that are aged a little.. the rest is all in the wind and wire type..

to find some cool paterns unwind those old dead 50's pickups and memorize those patterns and use them.

and remember a fast scatter will be brighter sounding then a slow overlapping scatter even though both pickups may measure 6K-- slow overlapping scatter will be darker.

coil shapes change tone too (flat wall) ( center hump) etc..

even though I can wind what myself and my golden ear friends dubbed as better then any booteak they ever owned..

still-- when I'm onstage-- its the Seymour Duncan Broadcaster and 5-2 Nashville neck -- or I'm suc-kin-- tomatoes!

Very interesting information you got there... if I ever try out winding my own, this could be useful...
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

UPDATE: Started another one last night with #42 wire up to 5.75. I alternated neat and tight with scatter though not as scattered as hand winding. Will finish tonight with #43 wire up to about 9k, and neat and tight to make sure it all fits.
 
Re: Wound my first pickups

problem with the stewmac wire is that its poly. most all the pups i like use plain enamel wire: p90s, broadcaster, buckers. old strats use formvar as far as i know
 
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