Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
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Erlend_G
Guest
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
That's me. But it's taken with a camera i borrowed a couple of months ago
.
Who's that in your avatar? :bigthumb:
ankalar said:
That's me. But it's taken with a camera i borrowed a couple of months ago
.Who's that in your avatar? :bigthumb:
The Golden Boy
Fleecy Sweaterologist
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
Building a cabinet isn't just making a box and cutting some holes to mount speakers. If you've done it a few times without figuring that all out and they actually, really sound good- you got really really lucky, or they really don't sound good.
So how did you calculate the volume for the interior of the cab and get that to match your drivers- or did you select the speakers first and then calculate the rest of it?Erlend_G said:
Building a cabinet isn't just making a box and cutting some holes to mount speakers. If you've done it a few times without figuring that all out and they actually, really sound good- you got really really lucky, or they really don't sound good.
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
What I find funny is that the first Marshall cabs were designed for looks, and miraculously turned out to be a great design.
I think Bogner just makes their cabs like the early Marshalls, using topnotch wood and either Vin 30's or Greenbacks. My ears are used to Vin 30's, but I may start mixing in H30's. I've been pretty satisfied with Vin 30's, so I've stuck with them for years.
Here's a description from Bogner's website, to give you an idea of how a great cab is put together.
"Our speaker cabinets have been developed to respond to your nuances as a player, we make cabinets that are alive with resonance, 3D note projection and that dance with every note played. Specs: special-select Birch multi-ply wood construction, including the back panels, no particle-board used. Tongue in Groove joinery is used for durability and tone. Over engineering something as organic as a wooden speaker cabinet can yield a dead, lifeless tone. Too stiff = killing the resonance. Durable tolex covering protects the cabinet. Heavy-duty, old school metal handles are used on the 4x12 and the large 2x12 cabinets, removable casters are standard for these two cabinets as well."
What I find funny is that the first Marshall cabs were designed for looks, and miraculously turned out to be a great design.
I think Bogner just makes their cabs like the early Marshalls, using topnotch wood and either Vin 30's or Greenbacks. My ears are used to Vin 30's, but I may start mixing in H30's. I've been pretty satisfied with Vin 30's, so I've stuck with them for years.
Here's a description from Bogner's website, to give you an idea of how a great cab is put together.
"Our speaker cabinets have been developed to respond to your nuances as a player, we make cabinets that are alive with resonance, 3D note projection and that dance with every note played. Specs: special-select Birch multi-ply wood construction, including the back panels, no particle-board used. Tongue in Groove joinery is used for durability and tone. Over engineering something as organic as a wooden speaker cabinet can yield a dead, lifeless tone. Too stiff = killing the resonance. Durable tolex covering protects the cabinet. Heavy-duty, old school metal handles are used on the 4x12 and the large 2x12 cabinets, removable casters are standard for these two cabinets as well."
the guy who invented fire
Fuzzy. Guitars
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
The truth is that most guys can't tell the cabs apart simply based on the cab...their are some exceptions to this but not many!
I think that the best sounding 4x12's are the classic Marshall, the older (60's) HiWatt/SOund City with the bass port and the Vintage Orange cabs...to my ears those 4 4x12's have got the best tones just based on the cabs.
As for speakers I like Celestions (Vintage 30's G12H30's, Greenbacks, "Blues" as well as the G12K-100 if I need a highpower speaker). I also really like Fane speakers, to my ears the Fane speakers sound a lot like the Celestions but a bit cleaner and more refined. The Fanes have a high bottom good strong mids and a nice treble that's never harsh.
My current 4x12 is loaded with Fanes. My next one will be loaded with Celestions and I will more than likeley either mismatch them or run 4 Greenbacks.
The truth is that most guys can't tell the cabs apart simply based on the cab...their are some exceptions to this but not many!
I think that the best sounding 4x12's are the classic Marshall, the older (60's) HiWatt/SOund City with the bass port and the Vintage Orange cabs...to my ears those 4 4x12's have got the best tones just based on the cabs.
As for speakers I like Celestions (Vintage 30's G12H30's, Greenbacks, "Blues" as well as the G12K-100 if I need a highpower speaker). I also really like Fane speakers, to my ears the Fane speakers sound a lot like the Celestions but a bit cleaner and more refined. The Fanes have a high bottom good strong mids and a nice treble that's never harsh.
My current 4x12 is loaded with Fanes. My next one will be loaded with Celestions and I will more than likeley either mismatch them or run 4 Greenbacks.
E
Erlend_G
Guest
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
Well, as far as i know, when building an open back cab, the size and\or shape doesn't have anything to say. Since the air passes straigth out the back, there won't be any resonances in the cab.
Yeah, i migth just have been lucky. But hey, building a PA\Guitar cab, especially a open back one, isn't rocket sience. You gotta agree with that
.
The Golden Boy said:
Well, as far as i know, when building an open back cab, the size and\or shape doesn't have anything to say. Since the air passes straigth out the back, there won't be any resonances in the cab
. Yeah, i migth just have been lucky. But hey, building a PA\Guitar cab, especially a open back one, isn't rocket sience. You gotta agree with that
.
E
Erlend_G
Guest
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
I love Fane's too!
the guy who invented fire said:
I love Fane's too!
Nightburst
New member
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
I swear by Modded Marshall cabs:
Get a cheap 1960 JCM cab, rip out the backpanel (particle board!
) and stereo/mono switch (do we ever use it? I bet 9 out of 10 guitarist don't).
Get a nice birch multi-ply cut to size, take off the old tolex from the old backpanel or get some new and install a good jack (I recommend Neutik or something similar), replace the thin ****ty wires on the inside with good isolated speaker wires and solder them to the speakers and jack.
Then glue in some isolation foam (I just used the grey type that is shaped like egg cardboard) on the backpanel (yeah that means on the INSIDE!) and on the sides, bottom and top(not the front). Screw the new backpanel back in and you're set.
You'll get more clarity, bottom end and note definition after this mod.
Resources consumed: a couple of hours, a few beers, $50 on wires, jack, glue, foam and wood... All in all you won't get past $500 for a good cab that says Marshall and sounds good to modern standards.
I'm still on the lookout for 2 more V30's so I can change out the speakers for all V30's.
I swear by Modded Marshall cabs:
Get a cheap 1960 JCM cab, rip out the backpanel (particle board!
) and stereo/mono switch (do we ever use it? I bet 9 out of 10 guitarist don't).Get a nice birch multi-ply cut to size, take off the old tolex from the old backpanel or get some new and install a good jack (I recommend Neutik or something similar), replace the thin ****ty wires on the inside with good isolated speaker wires and solder them to the speakers and jack.
Then glue in some isolation foam (I just used the grey type that is shaped like egg cardboard) on the backpanel (yeah that means on the INSIDE!) and on the sides, bottom and top(not the front). Screw the new backpanel back in and you're set.
You'll get more clarity, bottom end and note definition after this mod.
Resources consumed: a couple of hours, a few beers, $50 on wires, jack, glue, foam and wood... All in all you won't get past $500 for a good cab that says Marshall and sounds good to modern standards.
I'm still on the lookout for 2 more V30's so I can change out the speakers for all V30's.
Marcel
New member
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
I love my Framus Dragon Cab and they costs the half of a Mesa oversized and which I like the same. The Dragon is more focused. I hate 1960As and liked the ENGL Standard but the Dragon still kills these... I can't comment on more cabs coz I haven't played much more cabs with the same amp...
I love my Framus Dragon Cab and they costs the half of a Mesa oversized and which I like the same. The Dragon is more focused. I hate 1960As and liked the ENGL Standard but the Dragon still kills these... I can't comment on more cabs coz I haven't played much more cabs with the same amp...
The Golden Boy
Fleecy Sweaterologist
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
This is the only picture of the only 2x12 I have left:
It's made of 3/4" birch plywood, the baffle board is built into the cabinet, I don't know how the joins are done because they're covered- but it's a well constructed box, made with good materials. I've had several different pairs of speakers in this box and they all sound like crap. I love my 4x12 and I love the blackbacks that are in there, but they sound like crap in the 2x12. The cab is designed so that 1/3 of the back removes so you can access the speakers or use it as a semi-open back. If you really don't think the design, size or shape of the cab doesn't make a difference, try putting some insulation of some sort- foam, fiberglass whatever... try it. See if that changes the character of the tone.
I completely disagree with you. The design, size, shape and materials definately have a lot to say of what the cab will sound like, open or closed back.Erlend_G said:Well, as far as i know, when building an open back cab, the size and\or shape doesn't have anything to say. Since the air passes straigth out the back, there won't be any resonances in the cab
Yeah, i migth just have been lucky. But hey, building a PA\Guitar cab, especially a open back one, isn't rocket sience. You gotta agree with that
This is the only picture of the only 2x12 I have left:
It's made of 3/4" birch plywood, the baffle board is built into the cabinet, I don't know how the joins are done because they're covered- but it's a well constructed box, made with good materials. I've had several different pairs of speakers in this box and they all sound like crap. I love my 4x12 and I love the blackbacks that are in there, but they sound like crap in the 2x12. The cab is designed so that 1/3 of the back removes so you can access the speakers or use it as a semi-open back. If you really don't think the design, size or shape of the cab doesn't make a difference, try putting some insulation of some sort- foam, fiberglass whatever... try it. See if that changes the character of the tone.
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
Agreed.....ANY cabinet will have resonances, even an open back, unless you want to spend a ton of money and build a totally dead cab out of 1 or 2 inch thick Corian or something like that......works great fro stereo, but you WANT some cabinet sound in a guitar setup.
Agreed.....ANY cabinet will have resonances, even an open back, unless you want to spend a ton of money and build a totally dead cab out of 1 or 2 inch thick Corian or something like that......works great fro stereo, but you WANT some cabinet sound in a guitar setup.
Marcel
New member
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
and
There is much research behind cabs....
I bought my cab used for 440€ incl shipping 4 V30 speakers cost 500€Erlend_G said:Well, have you ever thougth of what a brand cab costs?
If you spent the same money on parts, and bulit a cab yourself, you'd almost be able to gold plate it
Anyway, i've bulit some cabs myself, that sounds and looks great. Building a cab is no problem, you just need an electric drill, screws, one of those "steichensaws" (err.... those hand hold mf'ers with the blade coming out underneath), and some tolex.
No problem really.
and There is much research behind cabs....
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
hmmm well I like the Recto cabs though the most classic tone I have ever gotten is my MOJAVE 4x12 with G12H30s in it. AMAZING cab.
For my Dragon though my recto 2x12 sounds AMAZING with it.
Hmmmm maybe I should get the DRAGON cab or a RECTO oversize.
hmmm well I like the Recto cabs though the most classic tone I have ever gotten is my MOJAVE 4x12 with G12H30s in it. AMAZING cab.
For my Dragon though my recto 2x12 sounds AMAZING with it.
Hmmmm maybe I should get the DRAGON cab or a RECTO oversize.
Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
You're very right about that! Years ago, I had a regular Marshall 1960A, and I did the same thing. It had Vin 30/G75T in an X pattern, new back panel/jack, and Corning insulation inside. It made the cabinet really sound better. Marshall should create a new series of cabinets that are basically upgraded 1960's, doing what we're talking about.
Nightburst said:I swear by Modded Marshall cabs:
Get a cheap 1960 JCM cab, rip out the backpanel (particle board!
Get a nice birch multi-ply cut to size, take off the old tolex from the old backpanel or get some new and install a good jack (I recommend Neutik or something similar), replace the thin ****ty wires on the inside with good isolated speaker wires and solder them to the speakers and jack.
Then glue in some isolation foam (I just used the grey type that is shaped like egg cardboard) on the backpanel (yeah that means on the INSIDE!) and on the sides, bottom and top(not the front). Screw the new backpanel back in and you're set.
You'll get more clarity, bottom end and note definition after this mod.
Resources consumed: a couple of hours, a few beers, $50 on wires, jack, glue, foam and wood... All in all you won't get past $500 for a good cab that says Marshall and sounds good to modern standards.
I'm still on the lookout for 2 more V30's so I can change out the speakers for all V30's.
You're very right about that! Years ago, I had a regular Marshall 1960A, and I did the same thing. It had Vin 30/G75T in an X pattern, new back panel/jack, and Corning insulation inside. It made the cabinet really sound better. Marshall should create a new series of cabinets that are basically upgraded 1960's, doing what we're talking about.
E
Erlend_G
Guest
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
:bigthumb: :bigthumb: :bigthumb:
saladin said:
:bigthumb: :bigthumb: :bigthumb:
E
Erlend_G
Guest
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
I just want to say, that i hope i haven't given people the wrong impression of myself in this thread.
I've bulit a few Hi-fi speakers too, and i greatly understand the various aspects with speaker building, sound reproduction, and the laws of fysics.
Though, in my opinion, a standard open back guitar cab is just a P.A speaker made to reproduce a guitar signal. 90% of all guitar speakers, particularily Celestions, are just ordinary P.A Bass\Mid speakers with a fancy name. Therefore, i don't see any need to try and "perfume a pig to make it a rose".
Though, there is always some things that are very important to get rigth, for excample the front baffle resonating frequency. Though, in an open back cab, i would NEVER think about a cab's internal volume. After all, a open back cab is just a "bracket" that the speaker sits in, not like a closed back cabinet, which must be fully tuned to work the best.
Anyway, i hope that you understand that this is just my knowlegde and opinions. I hope that i won't get flamed by a bunch of angry gearheads.
Thanks for reading,
-Erlend
I just want to say, that i hope i haven't given people the wrong impression of myself in this thread.
I've bulit a few Hi-fi speakers too, and i greatly understand the various aspects with speaker building, sound reproduction, and the laws of fysics.
Though, in my opinion, a standard open back guitar cab is just a P.A speaker made to reproduce a guitar signal. 90% of all guitar speakers, particularily Celestions, are just ordinary P.A Bass\Mid speakers with a fancy name. Therefore, i don't see any need to try and "perfume a pig to make it a rose".
Though, there is always some things that are very important to get rigth, for excample the front baffle resonating frequency. Though, in an open back cab, i would NEVER think about a cab's internal volume. After all, a open back cab is just a "bracket" that the speaker sits in, not like a closed back cabinet, which must be fully tuned to work the best.
Anyway, i hope that you understand that this is just my knowlegde and opinions. I hope that i won't get flamed by a bunch of angry gearheads
.Thanks for reading,
-Erlend
Brow
Active member
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
My favourite 4x12 cab is a 1970s Orange cab which I bought for £130, but during it's life, it's been painted black and had a Marshall badge stuck on it.
There's bits of Orange starting to show through the black paint, it looks quite cool actually
It has 2 30 year old Celestion 25w Greenbacks and 2 25w McKenzie speakers in it. These speakers break up quite early on, so this cab suits my Orange AD30 perfectly
My favourite 4x12 cab is a 1970s Orange cab which I bought for £130, but during it's life, it's been painted black and had a Marshall badge stuck on it.
There's bits of Orange starting to show through the black paint, it looks quite cool actually
It has 2 30 year old Celestion 25w Greenbacks and 2 25w McKenzie speakers in it. These speakers break up quite early on, so this cab suits my Orange AD30 perfectly
75lespaul
New member
Re: Your favorite 4x12 CAB and WHY?
I just got an Earcandy 2X12 Buzzbomb and it sounds just about as full as any 4X12. It's a deep cabinet and they make it completely to your specs as far as wood type, tolex color, grills, front colors--you name it. Here's a link to their website.
http://www.earcandycabs.com
I got mine and compared it to my three 4X12s and really couldn't hear a noticible difference. These were a Crate Blue Voodoo and Hughes & Kettner Triamp bottom and top.
I just got an Earcandy 2X12 Buzzbomb and it sounds just about as full as any 4X12. It's a deep cabinet and they make it completely to your specs as far as wood type, tolex color, grills, front colors--you name it. Here's a link to their website.
http://www.earcandycabs.com
I got mine and compared it to my three 4X12s and really couldn't hear a noticible difference. These were a Crate Blue Voodoo and Hughes & Kettner Triamp bottom and top.
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