alteredbeast
New member
i've googled it, but wanna hear what SD heads say. 6L6 vs. 6V6. Only speaking of dirty sounds. GO!
thanks.
thanks.
Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
- Thread starter alteredbeast
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Gearjoneser
Gear Ho
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
6L6 - Bigger sounding, tighter bottom end, clear highs.
6V6 - Breaks up faster, chewier midrange, highs are a little more ragged.
I've taken 6V6 amps and temporarily listened to 6L6's in them, and I prefer 6L6's.
6L6 - Bigger sounding, tighter bottom end, clear highs.
6V6 - Breaks up faster, chewier midrange, highs are a little more ragged.
I've taken 6V6 amps and temporarily listened to 6L6's in them, and I prefer 6L6's.
F
Funkfingers
Guest
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
+1 (Just as EL84s are wrongly likened to EL34s.)
+1 (Just as EL84s are wrongly likened to EL34s.)
alteredbeast
New member
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
i'm curious to hear what a 6L6 amp and a 6V6 amp on blast mode together would sound like?
i'm curious to hear what a 6L6 amp and a 6V6 amp on blast mode together would sound like?
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
It's been my experience that the circuit itself is far more important than the tubes used. Plenty of 6L6 amps with a flabby bottom and compressed highs out there, just as there are 6V6ers with tight bottoms and clear highs.
All things being equal circuit-wise, IMO it comes down to headroom before clipping and the 6L6s just plain stay cleaner longer.
It's been my experience that the circuit itself is far more important than the tubes used. Plenty of 6L6 amps with a flabby bottom and compressed highs out there, just as there are 6V6ers with tight bottoms and clear highs.
All things being equal circuit-wise, IMO it comes down to headroom before clipping and the 6L6s just plain stay cleaner longer.
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
I have a roomful of 6V6-based amps that would prove otherwise.
Again, it comes down to the circuit being used.
Perfect example is the '60s Blackface Fender Princeton vs. it's Princeton Reverb sibling.
The non-reverb Princeton barely breaks up at all even when it's cranked. The reverb-equipped model starts to give it up on 4, sooner with a hotter pickup and turns into a near fuzz box when cranked. Same tubes, same speakers, slightly different circuit - dramatically different sounding amps.
I have a roomful of 6V6-based amps that would prove otherwise.
Again, it comes down to the circuit being used.
Perfect example is the '60s Blackface Fender Princeton vs. it's Princeton Reverb sibling.
The non-reverb Princeton barely breaks up at all even when it's cranked. The reverb-equipped model starts to give it up on 4, sooner with a hotter pickup and turns into a near fuzz box when cranked. Same tubes, same speakers, slightly different circuit - dramatically different sounding amps.
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alteredbeast
New member
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
interesting. i was getting turned off for a sec from 6V6, by the comments. i ask because i have a mesa mark IV, and i have been eyeing several smaller heads to both play in the bedroom and add to the mark at live shows. i guess its all subjective. i'll be playing fast stuff, and won't need clean or grandpa tones.
interesting. i was getting turned off for a sec from 6V6, by the comments. i ask because i have a mesa mark IV, and i have been eyeing several smaller heads to both play in the bedroom and add to the mark at live shows. i guess its all subjective. i'll be playing fast stuff, and won't need clean or grandpa tones.
Edgecrusher
Well-known member
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
Dunno about the V but my MKIV can take 6v6's and ive tried it before and its really pretty lackluster compared to the 6L6's or 6L6+EL34 combo you can do with them. They do get flabby and loose in the bottom. Sure maybe you can design a circuit so they dont but in a Mark they do. If you were after softer clip blues tones they would be the way to go. If your buying a whole new amp buy it for the amps tones not for the tubes it has in it. If it meets your power requirements and has the tone you like do you really care what tubes are in it?
Dunno about the V but my MKIV can take 6v6's and ive tried it before and its really pretty lackluster compared to the 6L6's or 6L6+EL34 combo you can do with them. They do get flabby and loose in the bottom. Sure maybe you can design a circuit so they dont but in a Mark they do. If you were after softer clip blues tones they would be the way to go. If your buying a whole new amp buy it for the amps tones not for the tubes it has in it. If it meets your power requirements and has the tone you like do you really care what tubes are in it?
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
ive not really heard too many 6l6's breaking up. Ive heard them in my old mesa mesas and the distortion all seemed to come from the preamp while the power tubes just kept grooving along without losing their cool. Same goes for the hotrod i had. I've turned my twin up past 5 to get distortion but it was so loud my entire house was shaking - and even then it was not really "overdrive" it was more like the edges were just getting a bit ragged.
Ive driven my princeton into power tube saturation and its pretty cool. Old skool cranked fender action. The bass is loose but its definitely a groovy sound.
So for me, 6l6's hold together so well at pretty much any volume required that they are a good "blank canvas" to swallow up any dirt source you like (whether its a casading gain preamp, od pedal or big sounding fuzz that pumps out low end) and then throw it back at you more loud and huge without really breaking a sweat.
6v6's seem to be much more part of the overdrive texture itself at band volumes, so they really tend to lend themselves much more to the old skool concept of "power tube breakup". Stick a fuzz face into a 6v6 amp and the sound will be a combination of the fuzz trannies cracking up and the power tubes of the amp. Stick a fuzz face into a 6L6 amp and the power tubes will be cool as cucumbers allowing all the massive bottom end from the fuzz thru. Crank a 6v6 amp so its loud enough in a band with a rock drummer and the amp will be really humming. Put a 6l6 amp next to the same drummer and youll still have plenty of headroom.
They are both way cool but in different ways.
ive not really heard too many 6l6's breaking up. Ive heard them in my old mesa mesas and the distortion all seemed to come from the preamp while the power tubes just kept grooving along without losing their cool. Same goes for the hotrod i had. I've turned my twin up past 5 to get distortion but it was so loud my entire house was shaking - and even then it was not really "overdrive" it was more like the edges were just getting a bit ragged.
Ive driven my princeton into power tube saturation and its pretty cool. Old skool cranked fender action. The bass is loose but its definitely a groovy sound.
So for me, 6l6's hold together so well at pretty much any volume required that they are a good "blank canvas" to swallow up any dirt source you like (whether its a casading gain preamp, od pedal or big sounding fuzz that pumps out low end) and then throw it back at you more loud and huge without really breaking a sweat.
6v6's seem to be much more part of the overdrive texture itself at band volumes, so they really tend to lend themselves much more to the old skool concept of "power tube breakup". Stick a fuzz face into a 6v6 amp and the sound will be a combination of the fuzz trannies cracking up and the power tubes of the amp. Stick a fuzz face into a 6L6 amp and the power tubes will be cool as cucumbers allowing all the massive bottom end from the fuzz thru. Crank a 6v6 amp so its loud enough in a band with a rock drummer and the amp will be really humming. Put a 6l6 amp next to the same drummer and youll still have plenty of headroom.
They are both way cool but in different ways.
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
Yep, I agree. But for the most part, the circuit is still playing a huge role in determining that 'old skool power tube break-up' - especially the transformers used. Lots of guys have modded Deluxe Reverbs to take 6L6s to have a more portable version of a Pro Reverb for example and the only way to get close is to also swap out the transformer to provide that additional punch and headroom. Speakers are important obviously too.
EQ-wise, I hear most 6V6s as having a much warmer midrange tone whereas 6L6s tend to be more flat across the EQ spectrum.
Yep, I agree. But for the most part, the circuit is still playing a huge role in determining that 'old skool power tube break-up' - especially the transformers used. Lots of guys have modded Deluxe Reverbs to take 6L6s to have a more portable version of a Pro Reverb for example and the only way to get close is to also swap out the transformer to provide that additional punch and headroom. Speakers are important obviously too.
EQ-wise, I hear most 6V6s as having a much warmer midrange tone whereas 6L6s tend to be more flat across the EQ spectrum.
alteredbeast
New member
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
I hear ya, just to be clear, I intend to keep the mark 4 all 6L6, using it with a recto 2x12, and POSSIBLY purchasing the randall rd20h to use with a Mesa thiele on the other side of the stage. The randall will double as a bedroom jammer. Only problem is, Idk where I can try the amp before purchasing it, and there are zero youtube clips on it at this moment. I am speculating that the Randall will have way more balls than a blackstar ht-5h, which has 1 small tube (I forgot which). The blackstar just doesn't have enough balls as a second amp live, but works for home. Maybe I'm looking into it too much? Only 1 way to find out I guess.
I hear ya, just to be clear, I intend to keep the mark 4 all 6L6, using it with a recto 2x12, and POSSIBLY purchasing the randall rd20h to use with a Mesa thiele on the other side of the stage. The randall will double as a bedroom jammer. Only problem is, Idk where I can try the amp before purchasing it, and there are zero youtube clips on it at this moment. I am speculating that the Randall will have way more balls than a blackstar ht-5h, which has 1 small tube (I forgot which). The blackstar just doesn't have enough balls as a second amp live, but works for home. Maybe I'm looking into it too much? Only 1 way to find out I guess.
UberMetalDood
New member
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
This is just my opinion, but I think the 6V6 sounds like a cross between a 6L6 and an EL84. It has a bit less mids than an EL84 but a bit more mids than a 6L6; slightly less congested or more open (however you want to describe it) than an EL84. It has a bit more girth than an EL84, but not as big and clear low to high as 6L6. More compressed than 6L6, slightly less compressed than EL84. More articulate and slightly less sweet than an EL84, but still some softness overall.
I have been warming up to the 6V6 tube a lot these days. When I first got a taste of them, it was in Budda and Fender amps. The Budda V20 (6V6), for instance, wasn't as appealing as the Superdrive 18 (same as V20 but with EL84's). The V20 wasn't as sweet, a bit sterile, and a bit less breakup than the Superdrive 18. It wasn't until I started playing with a Bogner Duende that I really liked a 6V6 amp. Then I got into the Badcat Judah and Greer Underdog, and those amps helped sell me on 6V6 amps. Then the Goldfinger 45 came out and that raised the bar for 6V6 amps in my opinion.
Mesa Boogie came out with a Mini Rectifier not too long ago which has an EL84 power section. My first thought was why they didn't go with 6V6's. I had a Mini Rect, and although it was a great amp, it was a bit congested and could have benefited from the girth and breakup of 6V6's. Since then, Bogner has come out with other 6V6 amps like the New Yorker which, in my opinion, puts a bit of shame on Fender.
This is just my opinion, but I think the 6V6 sounds like a cross between a 6L6 and an EL84. It has a bit less mids than an EL84 but a bit more mids than a 6L6; slightly less congested or more open (however you want to describe it) than an EL84. It has a bit more girth than an EL84, but not as big and clear low to high as 6L6. More compressed than 6L6, slightly less compressed than EL84. More articulate and slightly less sweet than an EL84, but still some softness overall.
I have been warming up to the 6V6 tube a lot these days. When I first got a taste of them, it was in Budda and Fender amps. The Budda V20 (6V6), for instance, wasn't as appealing as the Superdrive 18 (same as V20 but with EL84's). The V20 wasn't as sweet, a bit sterile, and a bit less breakup than the Superdrive 18. It wasn't until I started playing with a Bogner Duende that I really liked a 6V6 amp. Then I got into the Badcat Judah and Greer Underdog, and those amps helped sell me on 6V6 amps. Then the Goldfinger 45 came out and that raised the bar for 6V6 amps in my opinion.
Mesa Boogie came out with a Mini Rectifier not too long ago which has an EL84 power section. My first thought was why they didn't go with 6V6's. I had a Mini Rect, and although it was a great amp, it was a bit congested and could have benefited from the girth and breakup of 6V6's. Since then, Bogner has come out with other 6V6 amps like the New Yorker which, in my opinion, puts a bit of shame on Fender.
alteredbeast
New member
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
hmm thanks for the opinions UMD, and everyone else. All good things to consider. I'm still trying to narrow it down between Orange DT, Randall RD20H, or maybe a Krank Jr of sorts. i know the krank jr 20w has 5881's if im not mistaken. I have heard quite a few clips that were really nice sounding. War inside my head. The reason why im leaning towards randall is because i can get that on payment plan haha.
hmm thanks for the opinions UMD, and everyone else. All good things to consider. I'm still trying to narrow it down between Orange DT, Randall RD20H, or maybe a Krank Jr of sorts. i know the krank jr 20w has 5881's if im not mistaken. I have heard quite a few clips that were really nice sounding. War inside my head. The reason why im leaning towards randall is because i can get that on payment plan haha.
alteredbeast
New member
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
Humming like feed back, not desirable style? or hummin' like red hot "oh fvck yes" style?
Humming like feed back, not desirable style? or hummin' like red hot "oh fvck yes" style?
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alteredbeast
New member
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
i can dig, i plan to blend two amp live contaning both aforementioned tubes.
i can dig, i plan to blend two amp live contaning both aforementioned tubes.
zenmindbeginner
New member
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
I am crazy about 6V6 tubes personally. They squish and sag like nobody's business.
Gearjoneser mentioned the texture of the midrange and I can attest to it. They sound more harmonically rich than 6L6 tubes as well.
But yeah... the circuitry does make a lot of difference. The aforementioned example of Princeton vs Princeton Reverb is totally true. The "Princeton" is a thick and rich sounding amp with throaty mids and 3-D definition... but the "Princeton Reverb" is a snarling slice and dice factory with searing highs and loads of even order harmonics.
I think that the 6V6 is more musical to the more powerful 6L6.
The 6V6 has more character and personality compared to the rather stoic 6L6.
Two 6V6 will rattle the walls but two 6L6 tubes will rattle your dental fillings. What's weird is that you can get 6V6-like texture, harmonics, squish and sag out of a 6L6 but you have to drive it to the point where the whole neighborhood will be pounding on your door begging you to turn it down. Two completely different power capabilities.
I am crazy about 6V6 tubes personally. They squish and sag like nobody's business.
Gearjoneser mentioned the texture of the midrange and I can attest to it. They sound more harmonically rich than 6L6 tubes as well.
But yeah... the circuitry does make a lot of difference. The aforementioned example of Princeton vs Princeton Reverb is totally true. The "Princeton" is a thick and rich sounding amp with throaty mids and 3-D definition... but the "Princeton Reverb" is a snarling slice and dice factory with searing highs and loads of even order harmonics.
I think that the 6V6 is more musical to the more powerful 6L6.
The 6V6 has more character and personality compared to the rather stoic 6L6.
Two 6V6 will rattle the walls but two 6L6 tubes will rattle your dental fillings. What's weird is that you can get 6V6-like texture, harmonics, squish and sag out of a 6L6 but you have to drive it to the point where the whole neighborhood will be pounding on your door begging you to turn it down. Two completely different power capabilities.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Re: Your opinions of the differences, good sirs.
I've found that the 6V6 has some real sweet spots if you try different gain factor pre tubes and different rectifiers. Using a lower gain factor pre tube like a 12AT7 or a 5751 and a 5V4 rectifier I could get beautiful cleans and chime and a really beautiful break up and touch-responsive feel when dimed. I didn't analyze it enough to write a review here, but I would say don't discount a tube type until you try changing other things around it. Just swapping power tubes alone doesn't always keep things in balance to get a good tone out of the tubes and the amp. The specific tube manufacturer can certainly make a significant difference also.
I've found that the 6V6 has some real sweet spots if you try different gain factor pre tubes and different rectifiers. Using a lower gain factor pre tube like a 12AT7 or a 5751 and a 5V4 rectifier I could get beautiful cleans and chime and a really beautiful break up and touch-responsive feel when dimed. I didn't analyze it enough to write a review here, but I would say don't discount a tube type until you try changing other things around it. Just swapping power tubes alone doesn't always keep things in balance to get a good tone out of the tubes and the amp. The specific tube manufacturer can certainly make a significant difference also.
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