Zephyr Silver background

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

That's another benefit of pushing the envelope with R&D - you end up finding several individual things that can be worked into standard models, such as the aforementioned screws.

 

[fretburner]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

Your Aston Martin One-77, Bugatti Veyron, or your Formula 1 Car... A whole LOT of technologies we enjoy now in our "ordinary" cars, because of these cars. Kudos to Seymour Duncan!

 

[Phil Ressler]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

>>You wouldn't compare a Mark Levinson to a Krell with clips, and I don't think these Zephyrs will reveal themselves either. Nor will A/B guitar store demos. You'll just have to buy one and live with it awhile.<<

While it's our objective to provide online media that is actually revealing of pickup differences, I tend to agree with the view above. The sound differences are plainly apparent to us. But even recording them 24/96 or 24/192, the playback situation is out of our control. For me personally, so much of the value of Zephyr is in the interactive feel of the guitar's dynamic response to touch, and that will not be communicated via even well-recorded clips. The rich harmonics and the midrange tone density are distinctions readily heard. The frequency extension on both ends is heard more variably, individual to individual (how loud have you been playing all these years?) But I believe the feel of a guitar with Zephyr installed makes the dynamic aspect of their attributes apparent to nearly anyone in just about any electric guitar you try them in.

I'll emphasize again that while Zephyr can be inferred to have audiophile character, that's not why we developed them. The wideband, high-density, bursty character is consistent with our aim for superior expression. We did it to put a more expressive tool in the hands of guitar players who can afford them, and to let individual content improvements find their way into Custom Shop orders. It's possible that the market will value Zephyr more for recording (and even the scorned Cork Sniffer noodling) than for typical rock-oriented live performance. Sure, not likely a bar guitar pickup, but there's more to six string wrangling than that, right?

Phil

 

[crguti]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

Do not start with "the playback situation is out of our control" excuses Phil ... give us a demo of this top-notch pickup technology.

 

[PatrickGinnaty]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

Interesting read, Phil, thanks.

I'm sure that there was controversy when the first P-90s replaced CC pickups, and when humbuckers replaced P-90s in the Gibson line.

There was an ongoing thread about the benefits of wiring guitars with silver wire on one of the forums I read several years back... the silver wire pickup idea seems like a logical extension of that.

I'm kind of a fussy duddy, I guess. I love the sound of my old Antiquity sets.
But I like the sound of my 60s 335 better, and the sound of my 36 ES150 w/CC pickup even better. (I bet a custom shop CC pickup w/silver wire would be fantastic).

However, despite my traditionalist pov, as a longtime Duncan customer, I applaud your desire to advance pickup design, and sonic boundaries!

Thanks again, for telling us the story behind the Zephyr concept...

Pat

 

[PatrickGinnaty]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

"My only concern is now with silver pickups... would one need to change all the wires and or pots too silver too really benefit from all the 'better' qualities?"(xxxplorer)

I was wondering this, also.

(But I REALLY wanna hear a CC pu w/silver wire.)

 

[sosomething]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

Do not start with "the playback situation is out of our control" excuses Phil ... give us a demo of this top-notch pickup technology.

Oy.

They can't. There's no way they can do that.

Reason? Regardless of how good, bad, or in-between the demos sound, people will say that they suck. Not everyone, but a large enough and very vocal group will adopt it as their personal mission in life to "debunk" this product and post pages and pages of crap that could effectively sink them before they even leave the dock.

"Doesn't justify the price."

"Should have chosen a better player."

"My Burstbucker Pros sound just as good for $150 a set."

"I don't like new things."

"I resent anything that I can't afford."

Etc. Etc.

This is human nature. This is what people do. No, what will need to happen is for a few people to buy them on hype alone, and post their own vids. That maintains SD's plausible deniability, or rather, their ability to say "that was an uncontrolled test by one player not associated with SD and not indicative of the actual sound of the pickups."

Or, if the vid is tortally allsome:

"Here's a guy demoing our new Zephyr pickups!"

 

[Bones]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

Oy.

They can't. There's no way they can do that.

Reason? Regardless of how good, bad, or in-between the demos sound, people will say that they suck. Not everyone, but a large enough and very vocal group will adopt it as their personal mission in life to "debunk" this product and post pages and pages of crap that could effectively sink them before they even leave the dock.

"Doesn't justify the price."

"Should have chosen a better player."

"My Burstbucker Pros sound just as good for $150 a set."

"I don't like new things."

"I resent anything that I can't afford."

Etc. Etc.

This is human nature. This is what people do. No, what will need to happen is for a few people to buy them on hype alone, and post their own vids. That maintains SD's plausible deniability, or rather, their ability to say "that was an uncontrolled test by one player not associated with SD and not indicative of the actual sound of the pickups."

Or, if the vid is tortally allsome:

"Here's a guy demoing our new Zephyr pickups!"

So what you are saying is that haters are going to hate?

 

[Despair]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

I don't know where this "need to replace all your wiring thing" is coming from. It's not logical. The amount of wire in your guitar outside the pickups is tiny. Yes, bad quality wire or [more likely] a poor job on the wiring will hurt tone. Outside that, you're comparing maybe 8,000' of wire in 2 pickups, vs a handful in 2 guitar cavities.

5.73% difference in resistivity is dwarfed by the difference in resistance you get by varying wire diameter. If you have corrosion concerns, silver might have some benefit, but if you aren't playing your guitar underwater regularly, the difference is more likely to be in the soldering job than in the difference between copper and silver control wiring.

 

[crguti]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

Would this pickup become as unnecessary as the vacuum tube with gold pins?

 

[frankfalbo]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

Update: We didn't put this in the press release but these pickups are available individually, for those who want one, or need to make a mixed set between single coils and humbuckers. The retail prices are as follows:

Zephyr Silver Humbucker: $595.95
Zephyr Silver for Strat: $395.95
Zephyr Silver for Tele Lead: $595.95
Zephyr Silver for Tele Rhythm: 395.95

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

I think I'd need to beta test it first. :bigthumb:

 

[Fikealox]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

Reason? Regardless of how good, bad, or in-between the demos sound, people will say that they suck.

Plus, demos aren't likely do much to increase sales. Most of the people who're going to be paying that sort of money for pickups are probably going to do so relying on the veracity of manufacturer's claims, along with the obvious, undeniable and inherent betterness and prestige of more expensive materials and manufacturing.

 

[Miggyman]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

First let me state that I am not a pickup maker. I am a musician/guitarist/sound engineer of over 35 years experience.

I have to say that I am have been intrigued by the Zephyr pickups and the whole discussion on the topic. Not because of the all the technology behind it, though I respect and applaud that, but I want to hear and feel the uniqueness of expression and results I could obtain through them. What will my instrument sound and feel like is the initial question? The next one is how can I better express myself? the final one i think is what can i create?

It's about the creation process and end product for me. What can be conveyed to me and my audience. The word "ARTIST" has a lot of weight to it of my perception of of how I view the area of music. It is a creation process and an exchange between the creator and listener. Pickup are tools like brushes are to paint. The brush itself may allow the paint to be drawn, held and delivered in a manner that will produce consistent results but it's ultimately up to the Artist to apply (and appreciate) those qualities. Paint is like an unplayed instrument. until it's applied it is not given life. Of course some pickups are perceived better than others because they consistently allow for the Artist to express themselves in a matter that is perceived by them, and the listener, as enjoyable and even extraordinary in combination with the instrument. An expression of the the instrument, when truly great, it's just not sonic but also an exchange of mind, body, and spirit. What missing in my scenario? The canvas of course!!! The instrument's materials, qualities, strings, preamp, amps, speakers, cables, etc. all have interaction with each other including the pickup. The pickup is definitely key to the foundation of the initial signal sent in the chain. I wish I could test more of them but it's an expense I and most musicians can't handle.

However, that said, I don't understand the big debate with the price (though I lament it because I can't afford it at this time..:-(). I would love to own some very expensive instruments for their beauty, sound qualities, and playability, and imagine the possibilities of the experience. There may be disappointment, but I understand the expense. I have improved the level of "perceived " quality and results of few guitars just by changing the pickups and ultimately enjoyed them more. I always seen to come back to Duncans BTW. As an example (very broad one at that), I think it is totally possible to surpass the current sonic capabilities demonstrated by an instrument costing say $3000 by one costing $1000 by changing the pickups and electronics package and still invest far less than the $3000 instrument price. Those are arbitrary figures, but adding 1200 pickups to a guitar you are able to play to the best of your capabilities because you love the feel of it may exponentially increase it's expressive and sonic capabilities beyond investing in an instrument that cost much more than with the new pickups added.

I thank all designers, engineers and manufacturers for pushing the limits of technology. But I especially thank those who allow the "artist" in them to explore the possibilities of creating something different for the sake of extracting beauty from an instrument for the musician's expression of the heart, soul and spirit. Isn't it the end goal?

 

[Stratman]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

Moose,

"Wideband" in guitar amps, short of an acoustic amp with a tweeter, is a relative thing. We found the clean channel of the Mesa Mark V to be exceptionally revealing for our repeatable tests, with some sonic attributes further magnified in the high-gain channels. That was a Mark V head played through Boogie 12" wide baffle cabs. Additionally, I've been playing Zephyr Silver and copper pickup guitars through a Mark V combo, a Mesa Blue Angel combo, Mesa Mark IV EV12L combo, a Fender Deluxe Reverb, a Carvin Sweet 16 (surprisingly revealing), plus all of these amps directly driving a Zu Druid Mark 4-08 wideband hi-fi speaker both with the supertweeter masked off and unmasked. The Zu FRD (full range driver) is in a Griewe load cabinet with pretty flat response from 36Hz - 12.5 kHz. Unmasking the supertweeter extends response to 25kHz. The Zu FRD has beautiful, truly exceptional guitar tone. Listening with the supertweeter unmasked is mostly for purposes of spotlighting assets and liabilities obscured by a normal guitar amp speaker.

But, you know, I can even appreciate the difference through my Big Industries Ronnie Montrose 9v portable amp.

Phil

WOW!

Make you guess that a Marshall stack is not a wide band amp….

These Zephyr pickups seem to put “A silver WINDING in the story”… lol

I guess that from all the high-end audiophile Zephyr pups need a break-in period, so that the guitarist’s ears can get use to the sonic differences. These effects are ameliorated rapidly in the first 60 - 80 hours of use. ROFL

But really, With the economy today, Phil your high end gear being used to justify these pups as a change in direction for SD just does not make sense for guitarist who play in clubs and bars, using the vast range of Marshall, Fenders, etc amps and not those you mentioned that just do not show up in bands play in main-stream clubs and bars.

 

[Hurricane]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

Hello Paul and yeah I dug your post to the max :

Anything that adds to a tonal pallet is my cup of tea . The approach with the audiofile/guitarist expertise is about time , makes total sense in approaching the task of advancing the state of the art in this case .

I worked on /serviced high end audio file esoteric stuff for 7 years , all the major dude brands from MacIntosh -Marantz and the rest like Empire - Dual - Sansui - Kenwood - Philips - Akai - Teac - Revox - Altec - JBL - Cerwin Vega - Denon - Rotel - Yamaha and many more . This is something that is/has

" come to time "

It comes at

" The Perfect Time "

With the net as The New Standard musical media cutting edge as well .

The way it hits the masses now too in the guitar buying market that uses and knows how to exploit the net with their music will see this as way cool .

With what's up and going down with cell phones / social networking , this type of product is one of many many new products that lend to this new phenomenon .

The end user , ( the non musician of which the % is 99.9 to .01 ) - has no guitar or tube amp - no 4X12" stack - X2/12" or single 12" , no keyboard no bass guitar or amp , no microphones - no drums and or percussion - Nada - niente - zippo .

But millions do have a computer with a nice speaker system with a sub woofer And from these systems they enjoy the great music from yesterday - today - and what's on the new horizon .

They hear Strats , LPs on Marshall - Vox - Fender and love each and everyone one of them . They do this with out ever being next to one on stage or in a night club or garage too . To them on their home system or Ipad/iphone or clone type player it is all good to them as they happily listen .

Musicians don't think at all like the end user , those with a 4X12 and 100 watts of power have no clue what the end user is all about in many and or most cases . Since they play next to their amp/cab - and have a drummer/ bass and other amplified sounds near - they have a " stage " perspective " .

This is good as far as hearing your sound and making sure it's recorded as :

" you hear it "

Every musician including myself is never really satisfied with the end recording as far as :

" Did it really catch all the sound "

So all of us in the end have to compromise that into the final equation to get an " even " sound .


So after reading this it made me think , what about GOLD since it's used in the p . c.'s ics and audio visual cables too for many really great reasons to I might add .

As Paul mentioned earlier of the research on phonograph cartridges and how they use silver there too going way back to the first magnetic cartridges .

That said Paul , have you done any in gold yet ? heh heh Inquiring minds need to know these things

Thanks for a great post too .

Sincerely :

Hurricane Ramon

 

[Miget Kotla]

The Martin guitar of pickups?

The Martin guitar of pickups?

Update: We didn't put this in the press release but these pickups are available individually, for those who want one, or need to make a mixed set between single coils and humbuckers. The retail prices are as follows:

Zephyr Silver Humbucker: $595.95
Zephyr Silver for Strat: $395.95
Zephyr Silver for Tele Lead: $595.95
Zephyr Silver for Tele Rhythm: 395.95

Anyone outside of SD hear all 3 sets yet?
A classic/heavy rock guitar player friend of mind described them again as "HD pickups that allow your audience to hear every note and finger movement." Pretty cool for rock he says... Allows each guitar effect to do more for the player. Haven't met anyone that has personally played the tele set. Likely the same effect but would like to hear from those who've heard/played the tele set. My guess is because of the High Definition-like clarity the humbucker set probably sells the most?

Like Martin's top shelf guitars the Zephs are unlikely designed for most bar gigs and will probably be heard much more in recording and the larger stages/venues. I would expect more and more video clips popping up as the months go by (convincing or not).

 

[LReese]

Re: The Martin guitar of pickups?

Re: The Martin guitar of pickups?

We were waiting on you to buy them and tell us what you think.

 

[Miget Kotla]

Re: The Martin guitar of pickups?

Re: The Martin guitar of pickups?

Reserved some time from a guitar tech around here to do the work. Waiting on the Warmoth body...then will see from there. Hopefully real soon....supposed to arrive any day now.

 

[GoldenVulture]

Re: Zephyr Silver background

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