Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

[dr0]

Re: Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

I tried all of the speaker sizes and only a 12" works best with guitars IMHO. Smaller speakers cut out a lot of useful low end that a 12" offers.

I think there are too many variations to say that only a 12" works best with guitars. First off you have the type of speaker. 10" speakers are extremely popular with bass players, so you can obviously make very bassy 10"'s. Of course those are long throw speakers especially made for bass. Then you have the type of enclosure: I've found that sealed cabs generally have more bass than open backed cabs. Then you have the number of speakers. I own 1x12, 2x12, 4x10 in open backed config and a 4x12 Orange cab. I find the Orange too boomy and bassy for most applications. It goes on top of the sound the bass player is putting out, and makes for a more muddy mix than a little lighter toned bass. (I'm talking basic blues/ rock here)

I think the classic 2x12 and 4x10 are pretty close in terms of overall output and sound quality, but I think the 4x10 probably has a little nicer lows (the Fender Bassman - well the name says it all really). Or take SRV's classic Super Reverb tone, for instance.

But again, this is the 1x12 combo thread, and even a lot of Princeton die-hards prefer the 1x12 and swap out the standard 10", and of course Fender has done a bunch of special edition Princetons and all of them have a 12" speaker, I believe. So, for the 1X* yeah, I think the 12" is better for bass.

Now which has better bass response, a 2x10 like a Fender Super or a similar power 1x12? For whatever reason the 2x10 is not a very popular configuration anymore. I have heard that the Super was Leo's personal favorite amp (at some point, sorry I don't have a ref. for that claim). It would be fun to A/B test s Deluxe Reverb RI vs. a Custom Vibrolux Reverb (to pick two current production similar powered amps) and see how the bass response is on both. I haven't done that, but I wouldn't say for sure the 12" is going to rule. You actually have more total speaker area w/ 2x10. (2x10 = 78x2 = 156 sq.in. of surface, 1x12= 113 sq.in) 38% more speaker! The 2x10's are almost the same size as the 1x12 too (unless you are cramming it into a Princeton size cab.) Pretty size efficient.



Mesa 10" Powerhouse Bass Enclosure It would be fun to try one of these. After all Leo Fender presumably built the Bassman for Bass players, but it's been a Guitar amp since introduction. Why not try some of these modern base enclosures. (Not sure what the frequency response and stuff is like on them.)

[Blille]

Re: Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

Supersonic 22! Half deluxe reverb with a *good sounding* fat switch (foot switchable), half gain channel that sounds right fender with the mid knob low or more modern with the gain 2 and the mids up.
Foot switchable fx loop.
Reverb is not as strong as a drri, works better for gain I feel like.
Decent stock speaker (fender lightning bolt I think), not as mismatched as I feel the C12k is with the Drri.

They started out with QC issues but i think they ironed out.. mine works ^_^
Anyways set it up and it's like having a drri and a blues Jr "plus" in one combo. I got the blonde/oxblood, looks great to me.
Sounds killer cranked up! No mods, no pedals.

I was interested in this one but heard a couple of QC horror stories and forgot about it. They obviously fixed it which is great.

The half gain channel is like a cranked DR, a tweed or something completely different?

It feels like two amps in one


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[FuseG4]

Re: Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

I was interested in this one but heard a couple of QC horror stories and forgot about it. They obviously fixed it which is great.

The half gain channel is like a cranked DR, a tweed or something completely different?

It feels like two amps in one


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I think "half" is a typo, should just say gain channel,
But yeah I used to own a deluxe reverb ri and you can make the gain channel of the supersonic sound very much like a cranked DR, and the mid knob adds a lot of fatness, but not the complex Tweed sound.

[Wattage]

Re: Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

My amp tech threatened to stop doing repairs for me if I bought a Supersonic lol, sound great though

I love the Bassbreaker 15 and I love Deluxes of near any kind

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

Fender doesn't really make any amps nowadays that interest me in the slightest. I've owned several BF and SF amps over the years, and Fender 75 and a Super Champ with the EV 10". I'd love to have the Super Champ and my '64 BF blonde Tremolux rig back, but other than that I'm totally happy with the Mesa amps I have now. I suppose a ProSonic or a Concert would work if I had to, but in the direct comparisons I've done, there's nothing Fender has that I would choose over a Mesa.

For the price you're talking, you could easily obtain a fully-loaded Mark III combo with EQ, reverb, Simul-Class power and EVM speaker. Mark IVs sell for not much more, and give you a more versatile R2 channel, a programable efx loop, and more power amp and tube options. Whether for stage use or recording studio, Mesa's are far better made and more versatile than what Fender has to offer. I'd much rather use the amp's natural tube distortion than spend my life (and my money) in the never-ending, eternal search for the dirt box(es) of the month.

Fender, and Marshall, have made some great amps over the years, and I've owned quite a few. I just got tired of being frustrated with them.

YMMV

Bill

[rbc]

Re: Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

A 1x15 peavey is your favorite 1x12 Fender ? Lol


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I'm just contrary that way

[dr0]

Re: Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

Fender doesn't really make any amps nowadays that interest me in the slightest. I've owned several BF and SF amps over the years, and Fender 75 and a Super Champ with the EV 10". I'd love to have the Super Champ and my '64 BF blonde Tremolux rig back, but other than that I'm totally happy with the Mesa amps I have now. I suppose a ProSonic or a Concert would work if I had to, but in the direct comparisons I've done, there's nothing Fender has that I would choose over a Mesa.

For the price you're talking, you could easily obtain a fully-loaded Mark III combo with EQ, reverb, Simul-Class power and EVM speaker. Mark IVs sell for not much more, and give you a more versatile R2 channel, a programable efx loop, and more power amp and tube options. Whether for stage use or recording studio, Mesa's are far better made and more versatile than what Fender has to offer. I'd much rather use the amp's natural tube distortion than spend my life (and my money) in the never-ending, eternal search for the dirt box(es) of the month.

Fender, and Marshall, have made some great amps over the years, and I've owned quite a few. I just got tired of being frustrated with them.

YMMV

Bill

Thanks for this. With basic Fender 1x12's going for up to $2500, as we see, yeah, I'd go look at a Boogie! I've always considered them a bit expensive, but very well made.

And of course I tend to associate Mesa with shred-ready high-gain amps. I know they have always favored the 1x12, looking at their catalog they still do. It's still almost the only format of combo they offer! I found one twin!
I'm not a big fan of high gain, so I would probably not be that interested in these:

Rectifier Series: original shred 3 channel / 50/100 swithchable, classic hard rock amp
Triple Crown: "aimed at rock's high gain throne" per their catalog, 50 and 100 watt versions

Which leaves:
Express: basic two channel, power switchable: 5/15/25 watt and 5/25/50, A/AB modes - price leader? $1300
Lone Star: Class A, "botique amp" $1900 for the combo. Switchable power per channel: 30-15-5 EL 84s, 10-50-100 6L6 (Class AB for high outputs)
and
Mark Series: Original "Carlos" amps, incredible fancy wood enclosures. 3 channel, many modes.. lots of models $2000 and up.

I'd have to agree that their amps seem pretty exceptional in a couple of ways: flexibility (with all the multi-power level, multi-channel and multi-mode), fit and finish on the high end ones, and are not expensive anymore but actually right in there, especially their Express models.

I think a lot of Fender and old-school Marshall lovers appreciate the utter simplicity of single channel amps. And believe (right or wrong, I don't know) that they tend to offer better tone than a similar multi-channel. I noticed most of the people who have responded to the thread have picked single-channel amps, and most of the 15 or so models listed above are single channel. But then your point about "dirt box of the month" sort of addresses your feelings on that.

I read a review of the Express 5 50 combo just now and it said: "It's also got that modern Boogie characteristic of a slightly soft attack when compared to the fast response of many vintage-style hand-wired circuits, with a smoothness that almost feels like some light studio compression has been applied somewhere in the signal chain." That sort of odd sounding. Anyone else experience this?

Thanks for your thoughtful post.

[LLL]

Re: Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

My 100% bone-stock 66-67 Fender Blackface Deluxe with original glass (tubes) and cover:





RCA, Telefunken, Mullard, Bugle Boy, Amperex

Oxford speaker

$1300 at the time (2009 IIRC)

[Blille]

Re: Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

This thread got me thinking. I think my perfect amp would be a 1x12 with a Princeton BF channel and a tweed (champ/5e3) channel.

Anything like it out there? Fender or anywhere. I liked the supersonic 22 and will check it out.


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[dr0]

Re: Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

This thread got me thinking. I think my perfect amp would be a 1x12 with a Princeton BF channel and a tweed (champ/5e3) channel.

Anything like it out there? Fender or anywhere. I liked the supersonic 22 and will check it out.

Yeah, the '68 Custom Deluxe Reverb. It's a lot like the SuperSonic 22, that is a 22 watt amp based on the Deluxe Reverb. The CDR has one channel modded to be like the Bassman, a very tweedy sound. It has the Silverface look, but it's the "Custom" channel that makes it sing. The SuperSonic is DR + 5150 vs Custom DR is DR + Bassman. It's not a channel switcher, though, which I think the SS is.

This guy gives both the DR and CDR a pretty good workout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UPNGQQ_QRI

[Lewguitar]

Re: Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

I have a pair of 60’s blackface Deluxe Reverbs, each with a 75 Hz Celestion G12H30 12” speaker and gently modified (Reverb on both channels and a little more gain) by my brother Bruce Collins of Mission Amps in Denver.

Those would be my favorites.

I’ll never part with them.

[jeremy]

Re: Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

This thread got me thinking. I think my perfect amp would be a 1x12 with a Princeton BF channel and a tweed (champ/5e3) channel.

Anything like it out there? Fender or anywhere. I liked the supersonic 22 and will check it out.


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ive modded my '66 deluxe reverb a fair amount over the years trying to get different things. at this point i basically have a mildly modified vibrato channel which does all the glorious bf fender reverb tones you want. the normal channel is gutted so there is just a volume control. the only eq is shelving up the bottom in the circuit so its not mushy. its not footswitchable but i use an a/b switch to switch between them. not quite a 5e3 tone but it does that type of thing well. lets me have a scooped sound with reverb and a fat non-reverb sound and that covers all the ground i need most of the time

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

I'm not a big fan of high gain...

Which leaves:
Express: basic two channel, power switchable: 5/15/25 watt and 5/25/50, A/AB modes - price leader? $1300
Lone Star: Class A, "botique amp" $1900 for the combo. Switchable power per channel: 30-15-5 EL 84s, 10-50-100 6L6 (Class AB for high outputs)

Mark Series: Original "Carlos" amps, incredible fancy wood enclosures. 3 channel, many modes.. lots of models $2000 and


I read a review of the Express 5 50 combo just now and it said: "It's also got that modern Boogie characteristic of a slightly soft attack when compared to the fast response of many vintage-style hand-wired circuits, with a smoothness that almost feels like some light studio compression has been applied somewhere in the signal chain." That sort of odd sounding. Anyone else experience this?

Random thoughts...

You don't need the exotic wood cabinet on a Mesa amp to have a great amp. They are beautiful, but you do pay for it. They also do custom vinyl.

The Triple Crown amps have a more "British" feel with their EL34s, but along with high-gain, they do clean and mid-gain very well. Channel Two is amazing on this amp! The Santana-esque soaring lead tone is there, and beyond. I'm a blues-classic rock-pop-country kind of guy...the TC-50 can handle anything.

Mesa has done several 212 combos in the past: the Nomads, Heartbreaker, Trem-O-Verb, F-100, Royal Atlantic, TA-30, Maverick...to name a few. But THE 212 rig to have is one of their 112s, like a Nomad 45, DC-3, Mark III, or Mark IV, et.al. on top of their 112 Theile cab. I prefer the EVM speaker. Two pieces, so it's more portable and a smaller stage footprint, and it elevates the knobs to a much more comfortable level. Mesa has really explored this for many years. I have the DC-3, Mark III, Mark IV and Mark V:35 combos, and use a 112 EVM Thiele when I gig with my band. For a local jam, I can take just the combo. They also make a 112 Wide-Body Closed Back cab that is Thiele-ported. My big Mark V combo has the Celestion C90, and the WBCB cab has a V30. I LOVE THIS RIG! It sounds huge, even on the 10-watt setting.

You should also include the Mark V:35 on your list of possibles. I love my big bottle amps, but there are not many gigs you could not do with this amp...especially with the Thiele. And the Cab-Clone lets you practice silently with headphones, or feed the board directly in a live situation.

Regarding the "simplicity' of single channel amps...

Is having a one trick pony amp and four distortion pedals simpler than a two-or three channel amp? Really now. And yes, those Deluxe Reverb amps sound great cranked. Until you want to use a delay...doesn't sound very good now...unnatural. Most of those amps don't have efx loops...unlike the Mesas, which have very good loops.

Funny you should mention that soft compression. In the late '70s, early '80s, I got a chance to demo two Dumble amps. Both the original Mesas and Dumble amps were based on BF Fender amps. That bit of compression and sustain is what I remember most about those Dumbles. Hard to describe it...very touch dynamic, yet liquid under my fingertips. A very seductive feel. I never felt that with any of my Fenders, but when I bought my first Mesa, a 180-watt Mark III head, there it was. Had to have the Master above 2.5, but once in the sweet spot it is glorious! That little bit of compression is not a bad thing.

Finally, if you're trying to compete against a guy with a 50 or 100-watt half-stack and your little Ampeg ain't cutting it...well, neither is a 15-22 watt open-back combo. Need a minimum of 35-50 watts.

With a Theile cab!

Bill

[Joey Voltage]

Re: Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

I don’t know if they ever made it in a 1x12 but the Prosonic would be my pick. I haven’t tried any of their newer more modern designs.

[Ascension]

Re: Which is your favorite Fender 1x12 tube combo amp?

I don’t know if they ever made it in a 1x12 but the Prosonic would be my pick. I haven’t tried any of their newer more modern designs.

Bruce Zinky wanted the Prosonic combo to be a 1/12 but Fender insisted on the 2/10's. Bruce built a handful of 1/12 Prosonics at the custom shop all in Red Lizard with Vintage 30's.I converted one of my Black Combos to a 1/12 and ran it for a number of years until Bruce built me the Velvet. Wicked good amps!
I miss the 120 watt Prosonic head with reverb I bought off Brad Whitford now that was a BEAST!!!
Used her in the studio for these tracks with my old band.

https://app.box.com/shared/3chz5vojtx

Here is the same song live running my 1/12 Black Prosonic combo.

https://app.box.com/shared/0l9jn5x5bd