What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

[2ndhandband]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

The problem human perception is subjective and inconsistent. That's why metrics and tools were invented.

Yup... there are tons of alder/maple superstrats and stuff around with EMGs in them and they're fine. Why would it sound like crap just because it's an alder/maple explorer? That doesn't even make sense. I'd be more inclined to suspect inconsistencies in pickup manufacture before blaming the wood.

EDITED TO ADD: This puts me in mind of a show I mixed a couple of years ago where the guitar player was using EMGs. He'd been using... I wanna say it was Charvels, and he bought a couple of new EMG loaded ESPs. Identical pickups. He was all excited about the new guitars and he was telling me before the show how much better they sounded than his old ones, because different body wood of course (I have no idea what either was made of). He did have one of the old ones there as a backup, and used it for half a set when he broke a string. Now I'm sitting here at the mixing desk, I have his tone EQed into the mix all nicey-nice, and once he switched guitars it was exactly the same. Here I am, listening very critically because it's my job, and I can't hear a PARTICLE of difference when he changes. Then he bounces off the stage and hes all like sorry I had to switch to that crappy-sounding old one hope it didn't mess up your mix too bad but didn't the ESP sound AWESOME?!

I'm like oh man do I tell him? Couldn't do it...

[Ben Davella]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

??? Maybe having the knowledge to know what is an easy fix is a benefit to a Pro. But to assume a Pro musician has more money than anyone else seems kinda wrong. Sure there are guys who made it big playing music, but they are rare. In fact, music on AVERAGE is one of the lowest paying careers that exist. So not really getting what you are saying at all. Not saying I am rich by any means. Maybe you are and grats to you on that. But many in music are not

[Darg1911]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

On topic, that "Gibson" is definitely fake. The inlays on the headstoco are off.

Off topic, if you don't like Gibsons, then going into a thread about Gibsons and bashing them is a surefire way to let people know you're totally reasonable. I don't like ESP. I don't bash ESP threads when they show up.

Every forum has their share of "bashers" and the more others express their aggravation, the more the "basher" ramps it up. They all seem to be self-proclaimed experts too (legends in their own mind).

[2ndhandband]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

??? Maybe having the knowledge to know what is an easy fix is a benefit to a Pro. But to assume a Pro musician has more money than anyone else seems kinda wrong. Sure there are guys who made it big playing music, but they are rare. In fact, music on AVERAGE is one of the lowest paying careers that exist. So not really getting what you are saying at all. Not saying I am rich by any means. Maybe you are and grats to you on that. But many in music are not

Haha true story... that's why I started doing sound production when I had to stop touring... it pays better when you're working on a regional/local level and I am goddamned if I'm going to go get a regular job. Lots of the pro guys in the region are broke all the time to the point where if anything goes wrong with their rigs it can be a real emergency.

[beaubrummels]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

Yup... there are tons of alder/maple superstrats and stuff around with EMGs in them and they're fine. Why would it sound like crap just because it's an alder/maple explorer? That doesn't even make sense. I'd be more inclined to suspect inconsistencies in pickup manufacture before blaming the wood.

An alder/maple explorer would be unsatisfactory largely if you were trying to get a particular tone the original mahogany ones made and were unable to get close enough. A player with lots of experience, who knows a particular set of pickups well, can quickly identify issues with the rest of the guitar that are not related to the pickups, be it wood, hardware, strings, etc.

EDITED TO ADD: This puts me in mind of a show I mixed a couple of years ago where the guitar player was using EMGs. He'd been using... I wanna say it was Charvels, and he bought a couple of new EMG loaded ESPs. Identical pickups. He was all excited about the new guitars and he was telling me before the show how much better they sounded than his old ones, because different body wood of course (I have no idea what either was made of). He did have one of the old ones there as a backup, and used it for half a set when he broke a string. Now I'm sitting here at the mixing desk, I have his tone EQed into the mix all nicey-nice, and once he switched guitars it was exactly the same. Here I am, listening very critically because it's my job, and I can't hear a PARTICLE of difference when he changes. Then he bounces off the stage and hes all like sorry I had to switch to that crappy-sounding old one hope it didn't mess up your mix too bad but didn't the ESP sound AWESOME?!

I'm like oh man do I tell him? Couldn't do it...

Unless you are working FOH for Live Nation stadium gigs, I've never (repeat, never, in 35+ years) seen a local venue where the sound desk position and the room itself was designed and set up for critical listening. I'm not doubting anyone's experience or skills, but I do strongly doubt that even the best of ears can hear the differences between two slightly different guitars in a local live venue, particularly if it's in a band mix during a show on top of the other issues mentioned.

IME an electric guitar has things in common with an acoustic guitar with a microphone. In an electric, the pickup will impart a more significant influence on the resulting sound than a microphone, but the source instrument with it's wood and hardware has to be generating a particular vibration for the pickup to pick up. From my critical listening experiments, I'm convinced the body and the hardware can counter the string vibration with dampening effects, even at particular frequencies; same reason some guitars have more sustain than others or some strings or fret positions have dead spots (a Hofner bass is a great example - you have to play each note differently to get the same output level); some guitars feedback, others don't. Construction matters also. The degree of influence on the final sound is much less in an electric than with an acoustic instrument, but it does matter and does make an audible, perceptible difference. I would bet my entire next paycheck if you take those two guitars into a properly set up studio and A/B them, you will hear the differences.

[2ndhandband]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

An alder/maple explorer would be unsatisfactory largely if you were trying to get a particular tone the original mahogany ones made and were unable to get close enough. A player with lots of experience, who knows a particular set of pickups well, can quickly identify issues with the rest of the guitar that are not related to the pickups, be it wood, hardware, strings, etc.



Unless you are working FOH for Live Nation stadium gigs, I've never (repeat, never, in 35+ years) seen a local venue where the sound desk position and the room itself was designed and set up for critical listening. I'm not doubting anyone's experience or skills, but I do strongly doubt that even the best of ears can hear the differences between two slightly different guitars in a local live venue, particularly if it's in a band mix during a show on top of the other issues mentioned.

IME an electric guitar has things in common with an acoustic guitar with a microphone. In an electric, the pickup will impart a more significant influence on the resulting sound than a microphone, but the source instrument with it's wood and hardware has to be generating a particular vibration for the pickup to pick up. From my critical listening experiments, I'm convinced the body and the hardware can counter the string vibration with dampening effects, even at particular frequencies; same reason some guitars have more sustain than others or some strings or fret positions have dead spots (a Hofner bass is a great example - you have to play each note differently to get the same output level); some guitars feedback, others don't. Construction matters also. The degree of influence on the final sound is much less in an electric than with an acoustic instrument, but it does matter and does make an audible, perceptible difference. I would bet my entire next paycheck if you take those two guitars into a properly set up studio and A/B them, you will hear the differences.

I do have the ability to solo stuff out... and a set of $400 mixing phones. Until I got my house paid off last year I WAS in a venue that did national touring acts... I was house engineer for a mid-sized venue that was honestly a much better sounding room than any stadium will ever be and had a million dollar Nexo rig in it. Hell, even for bar gigs I'm bringing a small EV line array that would have cost about 10,000 had I bought it new (and a console that cost about $5k). I'm not running junk here.

I still maintain that wood is minimal at most. Hardware has a much more profound effect.

[Aceman]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

I got about three pages in and will add the following:

#1 - That is either a totally fake fake, or it is a really custom custom. I vote fake. A true custom would be verified lickity split.

#2 As for Gibson vs Epiphone:

Some people here need to get their heads out of their @$$es. The AVERAGE Gibson pulled off the wall is a damn fine and solid guitar. Some of the pickups are excellent (496/500T, BB1/2, P90's, IMO...).

Are they the amazeballs Broo-talz/Blews or whatever you dig? Maybe, maybe not. Are they way effing over priced? Helllllls YES! But if you would take an Epiphone made out of anything from Cheap Mahogany to Formica table top over a Gibson, you are retarded. (Elitist models excepted)

For the price - they should ALL be perfect - and they all are not. But vs Epiphone and crappy bridges, frets, wood (if it is wood) etc? No comparison. Gibson wins on wayyyyyy more than average. Not saying that an Epic can't be bad@$$ - I have owned one (that was that way after Duncan were added). And don't get me started on the company - which is a whole other issue.

Right now, I have a 1973, a 1979, a 1996, and a Custom Shop with a mother %$%$ number on it. I've been playing for about 40 years. So KISS my @$$ if you disagree because you are wrong....

[Johnny the Kid]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

Yup... there are tons of alder/maple superstrats and stuff around with EMGs in them and they're fine. Why would it sound like crap just because it's an alder/maple explorer? That doesn't even make sense. I'd be more inclined to suspect inconsistencies in pickup manufacture before blaming the wood.

EDITED TO ADD: This puts me in mind of a show I mixed a couple of years ago where the guitar player was using EMGs. He'd been using... I wanna say it was Charvels, and he bought a couple of new EMG loaded ESPs. Identical pickups. He was all excited about the new guitars and he was telling me before the show how much better they sounded than his old ones, because different body wood of course (I have no idea what either was made of). He did have one of the old ones there as a backup, and used it for half a set when he broke a string. Now I'm sitting here at the mixing desk, I have his tone EQed into the mix all nicey-nice, and once he switched guitars it was exactly the same. Here I am, listening very critically because it's my job, and I can't hear a PARTICLE of difference when he changes. Then he bounces off the stage and hes all like sorry I had to switch to that crappy-sounding old one hope it didn't mess up your mix too bad but didn't the ESP sound AWESOME?!

I'm like oh man do I tell him? Couldn't do it...

To me, EMG's are a different subject. Passives definitely do sound different based on the woods, EMGs are a little more hit and miss, particularly older ones. The preamp in them tends to make guitars sound similar. EMG has improved over the years and their pickups sound less identical between each other. Passives definitely do take on vastly different sounds between guitars (just as a fun experiment, I threw my new Bare Knuckles into my Epi LP and it sounded vastly different than the Schecter that currently reside).

Furthermore, if woods didn't matter, what smart guitar company wouldn't stop building all their guitars out of good, solid pieces of wood and instead save money by building everything out of plywood? You can buy brand new instruments out of plywood for less than $150. If I'm really only paying for the Gibson name, wood being negligent and build quality as subpar as you claim, then wouldn't the smart business decision be to take all of the $4000 Les Paul Customs and build them out of plywood? Even if you put top notch hardware on there, you'd still end up at less than $500. That's $3500 in profit right there.

[Swampy]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

I live in New England. I hate lobster.

WHAT?!

How about Steamers? Man, I could go for some littlenecks and drawn butter right about now.

[Securb]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

WHAT?!

How about Steamers? Man, I could go for some littlenecks and drawn butter right about now.

I got a bad cherrystone around 15 years ago and ended up in the hospital. I haven't touched seafood since. The upside was I lost 15 lbs from extreme food poisoning. Whatever bacteria was in my system triggered a letter from the CDC.

[Swampy]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

I got a bad cherrystone around 15 years ago and ended up in the hospital. I haven't touched seafood since. The upside was I lost 15 lbs from extreme food poisoning. Whatever bacteria was in my system triggered a letter from the CDC.

Ouch. Serious stuff from the CDC gets involved.

[cvansickle]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

[ehdwuld]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

I have heard of mail triggering sickness
But not sickness making mail

[Demanic]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

I have heard of mail triggering sickness
But not sickness making mail

It could be like the zombie virus, where it takes over your brain and make you send post.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

[ehdwuld]

Re: What's wrong with this picture? Gibson? Content

It could be like the zombie virus, where it takes over your brain and make you send post.

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

Like being drunk makes you text an ex