Originally posted by Obsessive Compulsive
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Tell me about each Jackson “level”...
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Originally posted by dave74 View PostIMO Jackson should have followed the esp/ltd model, keeping the Jackson logo for top-notch guitars only.Administrator of the SDUGF
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Originally posted by nexion218 View Post
Well that's not exactly true... The Japanese models also had a bunch of differently spec'd lines from JS to Professional Pro, the Grover Jackson and Jackson Stars line for Japanese market only etc. While I agree that they are tainting their reputation with some of the lower end stuff, it's not like they're the only ones doing it... Companies are trying to maximize their income and we , the buyers make their business strategies work.
Yeah, they still have some cool players on their roster besides those two: Ellefson, Friedman, Jeff Loomis, Dave Davidson, Christian Andreu, Adrian Smith, Mick Thomson, Gus G, Phil Demmel, Phil Collen, Brandon Ellis... I gues at least some of them can be considered major artist.
After Jackson ended a contract with a Japanese contract manufacturer, apparently on bad terms, that place decided to use some Japanese trademark loophole (or perhaps just judicial preference for locals and/or corruption) to trademark these two names and just keep making Jacksons anyway...without Jackson involved.Last edited by Adieu; 03-07-2021, 08:42 AM."New stuff always sucks" -Me
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Its easy to figure out your brand levels assuming things never change....but they do.
I don't like the LTD/ESP deal. LTD's are getting too good. Diffuses the ESP brand, IMO.
Your main brand goes down, you use the main name to boost, your low end brand goes up, you elevate your main brand, etc....
Fender has it right IMO: Squire, MIM, and Fender USA. Three clear levels. ~300, 600, 900+ price points roughly, and then stupid expensive. Definitively better stuff.
- A Squire works, for cheap, and may even work well at the high end
- A MIM is all the fender you need and highly variable + classic stuff
- The USA gets solid parts, reps, and can go as high as you want.
See Gibson for how to get it wrong:
- Epi stops ~4-500
- No 800-900 line, or it is lame crap from Gibson
- Decent Gibson stuff starts showing up around $2500
No idea what Jackson's MO is these days. Just know the JS32 necks are awesome.Originally posted by Bad City
He's got the crowd on his side and the blue jean lights in his eyes...
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Originally posted by Adieu View Post
AFAIK, Grover Jackson and Jackson Stars weren't "real" per se -- just made in the same factory that used to make official Jacksons.
After Jackson ended a contract with a Japanese contract manufacturer, apparently on bad terms, that place decided to use some Japanese trademark loophole (or perhaps just judicial preference for locals and/or corruption) to trademark these two names and just keep making Jacksons anyway...without Jackson involved.The Japanese trademark issue was there though: there was already a trademarked Jackson brand and for the models that were Asian market exclusives, they slapped on the Grover and Stars words not to get in legal trouble. They even made some Grover Jackson branded stuff in the CS in USA.
So those were definitely "real" Jacksons. The only Jackson not 8nvolved in those was Grover, the man himself.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grov...n_Asian_market
Last edited by nexion218; 03-07-2021, 11:29 AM.
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In my experience, if you buy brands with the proper QC -it doesn't matter where they are made -every area has decades of skilled labor and the right machines.
You would not be able to tell by feel, playability an Indonesian made G&L or Gretsch from an American made with the same appointments.
And if the same loading, not the sounds either.
It's all about the QC process.“For me, when everything goes wrong – that’s when adventure starts.” Yvonne Chouinard
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Originally posted by Aceman View PostIts easy to figure out your brand levels assuming things never change....but they do.
I don't like the LTD/ESP deal. LTD's are getting too good. Diffuses the ESP brand, IMO.
Your main brand goes down, you use the main name to boost, your low end brand goes up, you elevate your main brand, etc....
Fender has it right IMO: Squire, MIM, and Fender USA. Three clear levels. ~300, 600, 900+ price points roughly, and then stupid expensive. Definitively better stuff.
- A Squire works, for cheap, and may even work well at the high end
- A MIM is all the fender you need and highly variable + classic stuff
- The USA gets solid parts, reps, and can go as high as you want.
See Gibson for how to get it wrong:
- Epi stops ~4-500
- No 800-900 line, or it is lame crap from Gibson
- Decent Gibson stuff starts showing up around $2500
No idea what Jackson's MO is these days. Just know the JS32 necks are awesome.
Agreed on the MIM and Squier take, pretty happy with mine.Originally posted by crusty philtrumAnyone who *sings* at me through their teeth deserves to have a bus drive through their face
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Originally posted by PFDarkside View Post
Blonde or Orange? They do straight orange as well...
Originally posted by crusty philtrumAnyone who *sings* at me through their teeth deserves to have a bus drive through their face
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Considering Jackson's major qc issues, not just from imports, but from the actual custom shop, I'd steer clear. They have a terrible reputation right now and I do not believe they've done anything to fix the issue."On another day of the week I might have a 24th fret but this is a grown ups guitar" - Guthrie Govan
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Originally posted by jimzucco View PostConsidering Jackson's major qc issues, not just from imports, but from the actual custom shop, I'd steer clear. They have a terrible reputation right now and I do not believe they've done anything to fix the issue.
if Jackson, Fender and Gibson all build poor guitars, what does one buy? ESP and Ibanez? Send a check into the ether and hope a small luthier doesn’t disappear?
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Originally posted by PFDarkside View Post
Details?
if Jackson, Fender and Gibson all build poor guitars, what does one buy? ESP and Ibanez? Send a check into the ether and hope a small luthier doesn’t disappear?
Plenty of good brands out there. Schecter, Charvel (Fender's best line IMO), LTD, Dean, etc.
Also, I don't think Fender, Jackson, and Gibson build uniformly poor guitars. You just have to be careful about each brand at a particular price point.Last edited by weepingminotaur; 03-07-2021, 06:38 PM.
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Originally posted by PFDarkside View Post
Details?
if Jackson, Fender and Gibson all build poor guitars, what does one buy? ESP and Ibanez? Send a check into the ether and hope a small luthier doesn’t disappear?"On another day of the week I might have a 24th fret but this is a grown ups guitar" - Guthrie Govan
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Originally posted by PFDarkside View Post
ESP and Ibanez?Go to an ESP forum and be shocked at "how much worse their new lineup is compared to my 92 Custom Shop XY model" or at "how inferior the built in Tokyo E-II line is. In fact, those are not even real ESPs, just botched B-stock ESP, which were rebranded because ESP doesn't want ashame itself with that sh!tty quality" blablablablabla.... None of which is quite true of course. I bet Ibanez has the same stuff going, but I was never intereted in them, so havent read about them as much. That being said, CS gaffes are indeed a shame, no matter which brand.
@jimzucco: These things are mass produced. Even the USA ones. And I believe the most expensive part of production is the QC and setup. So the less you pay, the higher the chance for a lemon. It's kinda disturbing, but that's free trade and market economy I guess. Until we keep buying them, they'll keep selling them. And while they're at it, they will try to lower the production cost and raise the MSRP each year.
To me the best strategy is try before you buy, if no can do then chose a place with impeccable return policies and in general lower the expectations for non top of the line stuff. Learning to do good setups can go a long way too and save 2-3 grands. In my experience 1000+ USD guitars can perform just as well after some setup as something for triple it's price. Aesthetics and finishing touches will not be impeccable, but I take a great sounding and playing guitar any day over an impeccable looking one. Sure, both would be great, but I don't earn enough money for that.Last edited by nexion218; 03-08-2021, 12:16 AM.
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