Pickups for metal?

[Demanic]

What's wrong with a guitar?

If it can be done with cellos, then an acoustic guitar should be a given.

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[dave74]

Thanks for the cred, Tulsa! I grew up in Stilly.

Thinking pretty seriously about a Dimebucker or Jupiter. Tone vids sound great, Dime is a monster. I just want to experience a gold standard pickup for metal so I know what it's like and learn how to backwards engineer it with other setups, like the banjo.

Do you know yet which guitar this will be loaded in?
I've had my Dime in a few different guitars just to try new things. It sounded very good in a full-mahogany neck-thru Carvin, but eventually found it's true home in my rg1570 with the basic maple/rosewood/basswood combo. Duncan's old site even correctly said it was a great match for basswood bodies.

The Jupiter was voiced for WH's Ibanez which is probably the same standard Ibby woods.

[risingforce]

I am still using my Distortion or Custom, depending on which amp. But I am dying to get a set of Black Winters and try them out.

I have Black Winter set on my Fender Stratocaster and this set is crazy.

[alex1fly]

Do you know yet which guitar this will be loaded in?
I've had my Dime in a few different guitars just to try new things. It sounded very good in a full-mahogany neck-thru Carvin, but eventually found it's true home in my rg1570 with the basic maple/rosewood/basswood combo. Duncan's old site even correctly said it was a great match for basswood bodies.

The Jupiter was voiced for WH's Ibanez which is probably the same standard Ibby woods.

The destination guitar is a set neck mahogany/maple/rosewood axe with punchy mids and snappy highs. It's less mid heavy than my Gibson SG for comparison. From the various comparison clips, the Jupiter has less high end fizz and the mids are a little more prominent than the Dimebucker. Both sound absolutely fantastic though. Heck, all of Duncan's metal pickups sound great in the clips/vids. There's just something about the Dimebucker and Jupiter that makes me go "yeah!"

[alex1fly]

I have Black Winter set on my Fender Stratocaster and this set is crazy.

Crazy how? Crazy good? Makes you play exactly like Ola?

[Benjy_26]

The destination guitar is a set neck mahogany/maple/rosewood axe with punchy mids and snappy highs. It's less mid heavy than my Gibson SG for comparison. From the various comparison clips, the Jupiter has less high end fizz and the mids are a little more prominent than the Dimebucker. Both sound absolutely fantastic though. Heck, all of Duncan's metal pickups sound great in the clips/vids. There's just something about the Dimebucker and Jupiter that makes me go "yeah!"

Keep in mind that the Dime is HELLA scooped. I love it, especially the cleans, but it's very bright and scooped.

[dave74]

The destination guitar is a set neck mahogany/maple/rosewood axe with punchy mids and snappy highs. It's less mid heavy than my Gibson SG for comparison. From the various comparison clips, the Jupiter has less high end fizz and the mids are a little more prominent than the Dimebucker. Both sound absolutely fantastic though. Heck, all of Duncan's metal pickups sound great in the clips/vids. There's just something about the Dimebucker and Jupiter that makes me go "yeah!"

I would guess the Jupiter is the better fit. Probably a great fit.
The Dime is just a hair too bright for some guitars IMO. It does it's thing best in a darker-toned guitar with softer highs.

[Rex_Rocker]

FWIW, I had a phase where I was using vintage-output pickups for metal thinking they were better.

Honestly, they aren't. They are just different.

Right now, I dig higher output pickups a lot better. They're EQ curve tends to lend itself more to high-gain riffing. They tend to be less twangy, and more chunky. The feel is also better, and they tend to lend themselves to super aggressive more machine-like fast palm-mutes.

Each to his own. I can make both the '59B or the Black Winter work for me for high gain. But I honestly don't see the "objective" benefit of a '59B. What you gain in clarity and dynamics is usually negated to an extent by having to raise the gain on your amp which compresses and muddies things up.

Then again, I'm the kind of guy that likes 90's and early 2000's metal tones better.

[Masta' C]

The OP listed prog-metal styles almost exclusively. 80% of the bands/players he mentioned don't rely on "high output" pickups. They get their aggression from their amps and their clarity from being technically skilled.

Do high output pickups have a place? Certainly.
Do they feel and respond differently than lower output pickups? Absolutely.
Do I own some of the hottest pickups ever made and love them? Yes, I do.

The thing is, the "heaviest" sounding songs, riffs, and solos that most of us know are rarely done with true fire-breathing, high-output monsters. Medium to medium-hot pickups are the sweet spot between dynamics, clarity, and punch. Still, the amp, signal chain, and precision fingering are the most important elements in achieving these styles.

[alex1fly]

Do high output pickups have a place? Certainly.
Do they feel and respond differently than lower output pickups? Absolutely.
Do I own some of the hottest pickups ever made and love them? Yes, I do.

I'd love to hear more about these ideas. This perspective is what I'm so darn curious about. How do you use them in a way that makes you love them? Things like that.

[Masta' C]

I'd love to hear more about these ideas. This perspective is what I'm so darn curious about. How do you use them in a way that makes you love them? Things like that.

High output pickups (in general) have a little more inherent compression and more even response from string to string, note to note. In other words, they can still be very expressive, but the response is typically more direct feeling and the output of softer played notes is somewhat closer to that of stronger played notes. Things like tapping tend to be a little easier on "hotter" pickups and come across more even, for example.

There are other qualities that emerge as winds get "hotter". At a certain point, harmonics become more prominent and things like pinch harmonics have more body to them...less "twang" or thinness, if you will. Not that you can't easily achieve great harmonics with vintage or lower-output winds, it's just that there's a quality of the harmonic that feels and sounds a bit different. That said, some high output winds seem to squash harmonics, rather than enhance them.

The other difference is how hot pickups interact with your amp and effects. High output pickups "drive" things a lot differently than lower output winds. You often don't have to dig in nearly as much to get a strong response or added breakup. But, that can come at the cost of subtlety.

I think the love for lower output pickups in metal is simply the added nuance and openness that they provide. With modern amps, pedals, and multi-effects, it's easy to compensate for any shortcomings of a low-to-medium output wind. With a truly "hot" pickup, you generally can't "dial it back" as easily.

Now, there are exceptions to every rule and there are bound to be a myriad of anecdotal examples that differ from what I described above, but that's a quick n' dirty rundown.

[JB_From_Hell]

FWIW, I had a phase where I was using vintage-output pickups for metal thinking they were better.

Honestly, they aren't. They are just different.

Right now, I dig higher output pickups a lot better. They're EQ curve tends to lend itself more to high-gain riffing. They tend to be less twangy, and more chunky. The feel is also better, and they tend to lend themselves to super aggressive more machine-like fast palm-mutes.

Each to his own. I can make both the '59B or the Black Winter work for me for high gain. But I honestly don't see the "objective" benefit of a '59B. What you gain in clarity and dynamics is usually negated to an extent by having to raise the gain on your amp which compresses and muddies things up.

Then again, I'm the kind of guy that likes 90's and early 2000's metal tones better.

I think the people who say “boost a PAF” when the subject of metal tones comes up are visiting that world rather than living in it.

There are obviously exceptions, like Joe Duplantier, but the overwhelming majority of the metal tones I grew up on and use as a basis for my tone were EMG 81s, Distortions, JBs, XL500s, etc…

[Bogner]

I am a big fan of the Holcomb set. I love the articulation, feel and response of the pickup in a mahogany/maple body and rosewood board.

Another thing we have to remember is that there is less gain and bass on recorded tones than we may think. There is also no substitute for amp volume. The speed/response/clarity of a pickup is very important for metal. Just like you wouldn't want a saggy bottom end on your amp, you don't want a saggy responding pickup. You can get all the gain you need from amps now a days. The key is finding a pickup that responds well to your playing style and technique. A lot of the "heavy" dynamics these players get is picking technique and aggression.

For fun, palm mute your low E and downstroke only on it and increase your intensity and lighten up etc back and forth and listen to the difference. Now, alternate pick the same rhythm and hear how much softer it sounds. Granted, on real fast stuff you may have to alternate pick it but alternate picking will never sounds as heavy as downstroke only if both can be played on the part.

[Demanic]

Was just playing my V which came stock with a D-Activator set. Very powerful pickups, but they don't seem overly compressed. Or maybe they really are, but don't have a midrange hump so they don't seem to be. They sound great clean or with heavy distortion. I eventually swapped the bridge with an X2N, because I wanted bridge tone that is just over the top. The D-Activator bridge is definitely more articulate. Sweeps stand out much more clearly. Chug is tight and dry. The X2N cares much less about collateral sonic damage. Very old school in that respect.

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[alex1fly]

Clarity is an interesting feature. I was chugging along with my SG that has 57 Classics/Classic+, and playing with my 10 band EQ. Cutting 500 khz instantly cleaned up the sound - all of a sudden I could hear all the notes in complex chords, and my palm mute technique was so much cleaner. Sounded awesome, just with the single EQ cut. I do like to cut 125 khz and below for sure, and then listen as I adjust the remaining low mids up to like 500 khz. Bass is extra noise, low mids can be add mud... but both sound nice when you want a full and fat room-filling sound.