New PAF Variant from Dimarzio

[beaubrummels]

Not an invention. And they copied what Gibson had already done and called it on their own. Not legitimate.

Actually, it is legitimate. Gibson was using white butyrate bobbins. When those aged, they turned yellow - not something Gibson did intentionally nor controlled or made to happen. You can trademark a color and/or shape if it identifies your brand to the average consumer of your product. That's what they did. DiMarzio formulated a plastic color to match that aged butyrate color and fairly claimed that (at the time they claimed it) the dual creme bobbin humbucker was a recognizable brand characteristic of their product.

I thought the dual rows of hexes were part of the claim originally, which would be legitimate, but then DMz started making "PAF"s with normal humbucker bobbins (which is not exclusive to DMz) and tried to claim now all normal humbuckers in creme is their brand. It should have been challenged harder at the start, but there were so few aftermarket winders then to bother.

I think where it really goes off the rails is when DiMarzio started making other colors, so there isn't a single color representing their brand, and they attack all other vendors making other variations that are not confused with DiMarzio's products.

[Aceman]

You can trademark a color and/or shape if it identifies your brand to the average consumer of your product.

Which in the 70's, made sense. In the 80's, not so much. Today - total BS.

And I could easily prove it with SCIENCE!

[marcello252]

imagine if someone someday discovered it was actually dimarzio infriging the gibson average image

[donaldr]

Not an invention. And they copied what Gibson had already done and called it on their own. Not legitimate.

You are mixing patents and trademarks.
Just like John Deere didn't invent the green color but they trademarked that green for a tractor.

[donaldr]

Can we get back to OP thread now and speak of Dimarzio PAF 57 please?

[Archer250]

It's amazing.

Company that hitherto didn't believe in A2s (and until recently, A4s) because "A5 is more reliable and you can just use technology" goes full A2 + maple spacers.

"We don't answer to board of directors, we answer to musicians!" Unless said musician is Jeff Shepherd, who dared to sell double cream pickups made in his own workshop. How dare he violate this patent we obtained in the 80s, for a product we began selling as a replacement part in the mid 70s

[AZ Picker]

I know everyone has their opinion on the double cream issue, going back the the 70s and looking at the situation of trying to stand out in a new market ( replacement pickups) it makes sense. Agree that once all the other products and colors came about, it was probably less impactful. I actually think it was a relatively “ Rock and Roll “ move to throw out their Version of the 57 classic and even put 57 in the name. I’d rather not see Gibson continue the “Corporate Overlord” lawsuits they keep coming up with, which one day could affect some other favorite brand or product you enjoy. This is Larry’s middle finger to that, which I think is funny. I’ve had some good products from DiMarzio over the years, and they are very responsive and helpful when you have a question and call or email them. As far as the pickups, I ordered a set as I’m curious to hear them, Dimarzios if nothing else are usually tuned with rock in mind, will be interesting to see how they compare to the Burstbuckers, 57 Classics and Seth, Pearly and APH variants we are all used to.

[Wound_Up]

I know everyone has their opinion on the double cream issue, going back the the 70s and looking at the situation of trying to stand out in a new market ( replacement pickups) it makes sense. Agree that once all the other products and colors came about, it was probably less impactful. I actually think it was a relatively “ Rock and Roll “ move to throw out their Version of the 57 classic and even put 57 in the name. I’d rather not see Gibson continue the “Corporate Overlord” lawsuits they keep coming up with, which one day could affect some other favorite brand or product you enjoy. This is Larry’s middle finger to that, which I think is funny. I’ve had some good products from DiMarzio over the years, and they are very responsive and helpful when you have a question and call or email them. As far as the pickups, I ordered a set as I’m curious to hear them, Dimarzios if nothing else are usually tuned with rock in mind, will be interesting to see how they compare to the Burstbuckers, 57 Classics and Seth, Pearly and APH variants we are all used to.

That's how Gibson, and every other business with trademarks, protects their own trademarks. It's part of owning a trademark. You have to protect it. There is no "corporate overlord" anything. They're doing what every other business does.

Just like when they destroyed all those worthless Firebird X's. Just, like Atari did their ET video game that bombed, they destroyed worthless product that was still shown as assets in their books. Millions in assets that were worth nothing. So, they did what every other business does with worthless product. They destroyed them. Exactly what they were legally supposed to do. Same principle. It's all standard business practices. Calling it corporate overlord stuff because you don't understand standard business practices ain't how it works lol.

[Oldmanmetalhead]

That's how Gibson, and every other business with trademarks, protects their own trademarks. It's part of owning a trademark. You have to protect it. There is no "corporate overlord" anything. They're doing what every other business does.

Just like when they destroyed all those worthless Firebird X's. Just, like Atari did their ET video game that bombed, they destroyed worthless product that was still shown as assets in their books. Millions in assets that were worth nothing. So, they did what every other business does with worthless product. They destroyed them. Exactly what they were legally supposed to do. Same principle. It's all standard business practices. Calling it corporate overlord stuff because you don't understand standard business practices ain't how it works lol.

You sound very wound up about this legal crap. I dont care either way, just wonder how they sound

[AZ Picker]

Both Gibson and DiMarzio have done their fair share of protecting their legal interests, I probably should have chosen my words more wisely. I personally think the jabs back and forth between them are entertaining, and yes, I guess I’m a hypocrite if I think DiMarzio is ok to defend their trademarks, intellectual property, etc, and Gibson wouldn’t be. No I’m not a corporate attorney, so I shouldn’t have weighed in. I’ve worked in commercial finance for almost 30 years now, so I have an “ok” understanding of business practices.

We shall see how they sound when they arrive.

[Anficht]

We shall see how they sound when they arrive.

Did they ever arrive?

Anyone else tested these?

[Anficht]

Ok, so I went ahead and took the plunge.

Let's see how they sound in my PRS Singlecut 245 (will install during weekend).

[ToneFiddler]

looking good. Are those buty rate bobbins? the really look kind of authentic with those dips in between the poles.
Please report back how they sound.
Did you also test the A5 59s PAFs from DMZ?

[Anficht]

looking good. Are those buty rate bobbins? the really look kind of authentic with those dips in between the poles.
Please report back how they sound.
Did you also test the A5 59s PAFs from DMZ?

Yes, those are definitely butyrate bobbins, so they look better than "regular" Dimarzios.
It's just that these are wax potted, while the A5 59s are unpotted.

I had the neck DiMarzio A5 '59 PAF in the neck position of a Partscaster a few years ago and I remember loving it. I preferred it much more to the old DP103 PAF (70s - 90s) and to the newer 36th anniversary PAF.
I'm curious to install the 57's over the weekend and will report back

[Anficht]

Ok, I put them in on Friday and I'm pretty impressed.
Sure, there are other manufacturers with great PAF clones and interpretations of the theme, and DiMarzio certainly did not re-invent the wheel.
But what they did is create a totally solid PAF style A2 humbucker, that is up there with the best of them.

I compared these to my A2Pro's-late80s-J's from Duncan. They are just a little less soft than the A2Pro, which is exactly what I was looking for.
I love Slash's tone and after trying all 3 Duncan versions, I settled on an original A2Pro set from the late 80s, wound by MJ, with the rough cast A2 and Maple spacer, single conductor and long legs. I preferred this set over all the other Duncan newer production versions.

The DiMarzio '57 PAF set is similar to the MJ production set, it's just a hair less "soft" - there's a bit more definition and upper midrange grit and a bit more pick attack. That's why it took the spot for my Slash-style LP and replaced the original A2Pro-MJ's. Not better or worse, just a different flavor that worked much better for me and gave me the last 5% I was looking for for this guitar.
These are not coming out.

These should also be pretty good to mod. I have a feeling these would do great with an A4 in them for yet another flavor. But for this guitar, they are perfect as is.

Pics attached (P.s. I always loved the Gary Moore Studio LP, so I went for a similar look in my 245 SE).