Hey guys. I'm in the market for an older Fender and I am looking at 3 amps right now, all Silver Face amps...a 73 Deluxe, a 74 Vibrolux, and a 68 Super. The super is the best deal at only 900 bucks. My question is, with the Deluxe and the Vibrolux, which is going to have a bigger, fuller low end? I haven't had a chance to turn these amps up yet so I am not sure what to expect. Both sounded great at low volumes. I don't think I have ever had an amp with 10's so my concern is a lack of a full, fat deep low end. I assume the Super will deliver a nice full low end with 4 10's...am I wrong? I haven't played that amp yet and my concerns with the super are it will be heavy and loud. I do have a DR Z attenuator so I could use that to shave off some DB's if needed. I appreciate any feedback I can get from you guys, thanks in advance.
10" vs 12" speakers in SF Fender amps ?
- Thread starter nedcronin
- Start date
Chickenwings
Alnico 6/8
Re: 10" vs 12" speakers in SF Fender amps ?
Deluxe.
No matter the wattage, in my experience no matter how great the 10's sound (ive gigged and owned a 2x10 musicman and a 1x10 sf princeton and ive started playing in a blues 3 piece with a harpist that uses a super) 12's always give a fatter and more satisfying low end than 10's. That of course is excluding the sound of 4x10s in purpose built tuned and ported cabinets that bass players use - but thats a whole other job entirely.
My jazz guitar duo partner has been using a sf princeton since the 70s but i just had a cab built for him and installed a 12 - he loves it.
My main amps these days are a twin and a princeton reverb II. The twin (69sf) blows the low end off the super (also a non master sf), and my PRII (stock with a 12) is the reason my friend wanted a 12 in his princeton. For 10's to give that low end thump, an open backed cabinet is not going to deliver it. Supers do sound great, but i wanted to address your question directly re: satisfying low end at band volumes.
I sold my 2x10 musicman to the same guy who uses the princeton...he uses that for a lot of work including lead slide and to keep the low end tight on a 18 inch seven string archtop. It always sounds great both recorded and when playing with a full band, but he always says he'd like a "touch" more headroom....but at 65 watts im pretty sure thats not the isssue...its the physical feeling of bump that only 12's can deliver.
Deluxe.
No matter the wattage, in my experience no matter how great the 10's sound (ive gigged and owned a 2x10 musicman and a 1x10 sf princeton and ive started playing in a blues 3 piece with a harpist that uses a super) 12's always give a fatter and more satisfying low end than 10's. That of course is excluding the sound of 4x10s in purpose built tuned and ported cabinets that bass players use - but thats a whole other job entirely.
My jazz guitar duo partner has been using a sf princeton since the 70s but i just had a cab built for him and installed a 12 - he loves it.
My main amps these days are a twin and a princeton reverb II. The twin (69sf) blows the low end off the super (also a non master sf), and my PRII (stock with a 12) is the reason my friend wanted a 12 in his princeton. For 10's to give that low end thump, an open backed cabinet is not going to deliver it. Supers do sound great, but i wanted to address your question directly re: satisfying low end at band volumes.
I sold my 2x10 musicman to the same guy who uses the princeton...he uses that for a lot of work including lead slide and to keep the low end tight on a 18 inch seven string archtop. It always sounds great both recorded and when playing with a full band, but he always says he'd like a "touch" more headroom....but at 65 watts im pretty sure thats not the isssue...its the physical feeling of bump that only 12's can deliver.
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zenmindbeginner
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Re: 10" vs 12" speakers in SF Fender amps ?
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Bludave
New member
Re: 10" vs 12" speakers in SF Fender amps ?
I have a super and a deluxe reverb. Both sf. The super is moving more air then the deluxe. It has 40 total inches as the dr has 12". The wattage also adds a lot more headroom. They are very different amps. The super really has to get the volume up before they really come into their own. The problem I have with a deluxe is the lack of headroom. The dr volume works from 4 to 6 over 6 they tend to get muddy and it is really hard to keep them clean. They are the perfect small venue amp IMHO. The super has a lot more headroom and you have to drive them harder to get them to growl but they growl beautifully. SRV used a SR for most of his dirty sound early on and a Marshall for his cleans.
I have a super and a deluxe reverb. Both sf. The super is moving more air then the deluxe. It has 40 total inches as the dr has 12". The wattage also adds a lot more headroom. They are very different amps. The super really has to get the volume up before they really come into their own. The problem I have with a deluxe is the lack of headroom. The dr volume works from 4 to 6 over 6 they tend to get muddy and it is really hard to keep them clean. They are the perfect small venue amp IMHO. The super has a lot more headroom and you have to drive them harder to get them to growl but they growl beautifully. SRV used a SR for most of his dirty sound early on and a Marshall for his cleans.
Re: 10" vs 12" speakers in SF Fender amps ?
as much as i love my bf deluxe reverb, with those options id jump on the '68 super reverb. they are loudish and heavy but thats a great amp. in a single speaker amp i gotta have a 12" but if there are two or more then 10's, at least the right ones can sound very full.
i have a 1x12 with a tone tubby and a 2x10 with a p10q/lil buddy and the 2x10 sounds thicker. it has a lot to do with the lil buddy
as much as i love my bf deluxe reverb, with those options id jump on the '68 super reverb. they are loudish and heavy but thats a great amp. in a single speaker amp i gotta have a 12" but if there are two or more then 10's, at least the right ones can sound very full.
i have a 1x12 with a tone tubby and a 2x10 with a p10q/lil buddy and the 2x10 sounds thicker. it has a lot to do with the lil buddy
Lewguitar
New member
Re: 10" vs 12" speakers in SF Fender amps ?
I usually agree with Jeremy but I don't like Super Reverb amps. To tall and heavy to carry easily, to loud and to clean for my tastes.
I do agree that if I'm only going to have one speaker onstage that a single 10" is not enough...it needs to be a 12". But two 10" speakers sound fine to me.
The two 10", 35-40 watt Vibrolux will be louder than the one 12", 22 watt Deluxe Reverb. I'd be more interested in either of those and I'd probably go for the Deluxe Reverb.
My favorite old Fender amp is the Princeton Reverb but only after changing the 10" baffle board to a one 12" speaker baffle board. I have a Celestion 12" in mine.
However, two Princeton Reverbs, each with a high quality and efficient 10" speaker, would be fine onstage.
I usually agree with Jeremy but I don't like Super Reverb amps. To tall and heavy to carry easily, to loud and to clean for my tastes.
I do agree that if I'm only going to have one speaker onstage that a single 10" is not enough...it needs to be a 12". But two 10" speakers sound fine to me.
The two 10", 35-40 watt Vibrolux will be louder than the one 12", 22 watt Deluxe Reverb. I'd be more interested in either of those and I'd probably go for the Deluxe Reverb.
My favorite old Fender amp is the Princeton Reverb but only after changing the 10" baffle board to a one 12" speaker baffle board. I have a Celestion 12" in mine.
However, two Princeton Reverbs, each with a high quality and efficient 10" speaker, would be fine onstage.
CapoFirstFret
New member
Re: 10" vs 12" speakers in SF Fender amps ?
I'm going with Jeremy here as well. My lifetime keeper amp is my 1970 AB763 circuit Super Reverb with the original CTS 10" speakers. That thing gives up the goods every single time. They can be super fat. Wes Montgomery even used one before he moved over to Polytone! My guess the move to Polytone was more an issue of weight than it was tone.
I'm going with Jeremy here as well. My lifetime keeper amp is my 1970 AB763 circuit Super Reverb with the original CTS 10" speakers. That thing gives up the goods every single time. They can be super fat. Wes Montgomery even used one before he moved over to Polytone! My guess the move to Polytone was more an issue of weight than it was tone.
Lewguitar
New member
Re: 10" vs 12" speakers in SF Fender amps ?
Never loved those speakers or Super Reverb Amps. So clean, so loud and so much treble! Plus, I'm only 5'7", and SR's are to tall and hard to carry with one hand. Just not for me. I like a Vibrolux Reverb much more.
And two Deluxe Reverbs or two Princeton Reverbs each with a Celestion 12" speaker even more.
Never loved those speakers or Super Reverb Amps. So clean, so loud and so much treble! Plus, I'm only 5'7", and SR's are to tall and hard to carry with one hand. Just not for me. I like a Vibrolux Reverb much more.
And two Deluxe Reverbs or two Princeton Reverbs each with a Celestion 12" speaker even more.
CapoFirstFret
New member
Re: 10" vs 12" speakers in SF Fender amps ?
I will definitely say they have some volume and they are quite heavy, but mine isn't overloaded with treble. I even crank the treble to get that bite for my blues gigs but just turning off the bright switch and boosting the lows to around 6 gets me that nice and thick jazz tone. Turn the mids up a bunch and I'm in classic horn-like territory.
I had a reissue though that was high on the treble. I still got great tone out of it, I just had to dial it back more.
I will definitely say they have some volume and they are quite heavy, but mine isn't overloaded with treble. I even crank the treble to get that bite for my blues gigs but just turning off the bright switch and boosting the lows to around 6 gets me that nice and thick jazz tone. Turn the mids up a bunch and I'm in classic horn-like territory.
I had a reissue though that was high on the treble. I still got great tone out of it, I just had to dial it back more.
Re: 10" vs 12" speakers in SF Fender amps ?
the super is the oldest and the cheapest of the things he is looking at. i love my old dr but im not paying stupid prices for another one.
with the airbrake he can knock down the db's and push the amp harder without the crushing volume youd typically get from a cranked super. i dont find them overly bright either. i dont use the bright switch on any fender.
the super is the oldest and the cheapest of the things he is looking at. i love my old dr but im not paying stupid prices for another one.
with the airbrake he can knock down the db's and push the amp harder without the crushing volume youd typically get from a cranked super. i dont find them overly bright either. i dont use the bright switch on any fender.
Lewguitar
New member
Re: 10" vs 12" speakers in SF Fender amps ?
One of my best friends and a great local guitarist Steve Magnano, plays through a Super Reverb and sounds great. When I play through one it always sounds to bright and clean and I can't turn it up enough to get it to break up. Just the opposite for Steve and he plays a Strat too. So it all comes down to what works for each of us.
You gotta try before you buy.
One of my best friends and a great local guitarist Steve Magnano, plays through a Super Reverb and sounds great. When I play through one it always sounds to bright and clean and I can't turn it up enough to get it to break up. Just the opposite for Steve and he plays a Strat too. So it all comes down to what works for each of us.
You gotta try before you buy.
CapoFirstFret
New member
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