100 watt tube amps just too loud?

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

Many people don't understand that. It's not the same only not as loud. A MV amp turned way down sounds lazy to me. It still needs to be so loud.

1/2 power switches work much better on 50 watt amps, than on 100 watt amps. The difference in loudness between 50 watts and 25 watts is much more noticable, than between 100 watts and 50 watts.

 

[WhoFan]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

pushing the speakers harder also is part of the Marshall sound... turned down they are not moving as freely...

 

[Copperhead]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

1) THD Hotplate

2) KRANK Chadwick

3) KRANK Rev JR

 

[lex666]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

What about the Marshall TSL series?

They offer a 60 watt head and combo... its got 3 channels, 1 clean, and 2 overdrive...

I have the 60 watt 2x12 combo with a 2 x12 ext cab, so i've basically got a half stack thats pretty easy, (although heavy) to move around. It gets a really good overdrive without being too loud. Amp distortion sounds great and the volume is only at 1:00 or 2:00.

 

[Davey]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

it's not too loud... you need better earplugs





thing is, it's totally NOT about loudness (as perceived volume, can be nearly doubled, just by adding another speaker, or cab) it's about the tone.

 

[papersoul]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

What about the Marshall TSL series?

They offer a 60 watt head and combo... its got 3 channels, 1 clean, and 2 overdrive...

I have the 60 watt 2x12 combo with a 2 x12 ext cab, so i've basically got a half stack thats pretty easy, (although heavy) to move around. It gets a really good overdrive without being too loud. Amp distortion sounds great and the volume is only at 1:00 or 2:00.

I keep hearing the gain on the newer Marshalls is too thin and buzzy...no?

 

[Mephis]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

Now take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt because it probably isn't helpful to you.

I've never played any gigs but I feel that every ounce of my peavey's 100watts is getting used, and often.(Only at home for recording) I do realise though that there's almost no suitation when playing out that you could use that much volume. Unless you're outdoors, but you'd have PA in that suitation any way.

My guitar teacher discovered this with his 100watt randall RM100 rack.
He is now buying 30watt 1x12 amps to replace it. Easy to mic, each to haul, and can be cranked in a small place. Which is probably the best solution for anyone who finds a 100watter to be too much. There's hardly any difference from 50watt and 100watt in my experence... Other than I prefer the tone of 100watt amps. Though there is a decent difference between a 100watter and a 30 watter, especially when you start using less speakers.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

There have been major improvements since the birth of attenuators.

This is a great start (these are two alternatives):

http://www.londonpower.com/pscaling.htm

http://www.mavenpeal.com/sag.html

 

[EveryMn]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

The new Reeves amps have power sclaing as an option on some and standard on others.

Sounds like a great idea.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

Sometimesl a 100W at half power turned up doesn't necessarily mean it's better than the full 100W turned down. Those are the two options you have with a 100/50 amp head.

Then, the quality of the preamp tone has a lot to do with how you'll sound. With a cheezy sounding preamp tone, a loud amp turned down won't sound good. On a higher end amp, you can tweak it better at normal volumes, not to mention some sort of attenuator like a Weber Mass.

 

[Skarekrough]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

Now take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt because it probably isn't helpful to you.

I've never played any gigs but I feel that every ounce of my peavey's 100watts is getting used, and often.(Only at home for recording) I do realise though that there's almost no suitation when playing out that you could use that much volume. Unless you're outdoors, but you'd have PA in that suitation any way.

Outdoor gigs are a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

Overwhelmingly the problem with playing outside is that there's usually nothing to bounce back at you. Getting a reasonable stage volume with a small amp can be almost impossible unless you're using a really good set of monitors and aren't inclined to move out of range of them.

Add to it that the stages are usually MUCH larger and it can get disorienting at times and you find yourself having to actually walk to certain spots to get cues or hear certain things.

For my three-set bar band Classic Rock and Blues stuff I can use the smaller amps. No problem. But when that band books an outdoor gig I'll gladly take the time and track down a Fender Twin to use for the show because I know horsepower is what it's going to take to get the job done.

 

[papersoul]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

There have been major improvements since the birth of attenuators.

This is a great start (these are two alternatives):

http://www.londonpower.com/pscaling.htm

http://www.mavenpeal.com/sag.html

What is that Maven Peal....something they build into your amp? A custom job? I couldn't find the actual hardware on the site.

I think a high quality 100 watt head turned down is the way to go. I hope my old Rivera does the trick.
If not, I may be looking at a Mes Mark IV. With those you have a 15 watt mode and apparently can get great low volume tones with all the buttons and switches.

 

[lex666]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

I keep hearing the gain on the newer Marshalls is too thin and buzzy...no?

I don't think my TSL is thin or buzzy at all. the way I have it dailed in, it actually has some really nice low end chunk to it. I have channel 2 dialed in to a perfect AC/DC, LZ tone.

I've got channel 3 in a heavy OD setting. enuff to make the windows rattle and re-arrange the glasses in the kitchen...

...I must admit tho, it wasn't like that until I added the 2x12 ext cab...

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

What's wrong with your H&K Switchblade? I thought it'd be a good gigging amp, but you're saying it's too loud?

Somehow, I think we're all thinking too much about it. Like Jolly says "I just plug in and rock."

 

[Wattage]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

I kill soundmen for a living.

 

[That90'sGuy]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

What is that Maven Peal....something they build into your amp? A custom job? I couldn't find the actual hardware on the site.

I think a high quality 100 watt head turned down is the way to go. I hope my old Rivera does the trick.
If not, I may be looking at a Mes Mark IV. With those you have a 15 watt mode and apparently can get great low volume tones with all the buttons and switches.

I think Maven Peals circuitry is exclusive to their own amps (I posted it more to give some insight as to what companies are doing to try to rectify the issues with different sound perception at lower volumes). The London Power power scaling technology is however becoming more and more available for a lot of amps. I haven't tried it, but it's supposed to be great.

 

[dystrust]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

I've tried many different 2x12 cabs and many different combos to try to approximate that sound. I would love to not have to haul a 4x12- but it sounds better than any other configuration I've used.

I used to be a member of that camp until my brother ordered an Ear Candy Buzz Bomb last fall. Using both his JMP 2203 and my JCM 2555, the EC w/ V30s sounded every bit as good as my early 70s Marshall 4x12 w/ original G12Hs. It sounded so good that I ordered my own EC just so I don't have to carry that f***ing heavy Marshall box to play shows anymore.

Regarding the 50W vs 100W debate, I vastly prefer 100W heads but that's because I play older Marshalls and I like having the bit of extra low end from an amp that tends to be rather bright. Both the 2203 and 2555 are are about 80% preamp (tone-wise), so they don't need to be insanely loud to sound good. We turn ours up until the low end fills out and the highs become crisp. This is loud, but not unmanageably so. At the moment we're in an original band and we only play music venues instead of bars where the music is atmosphere instead of attraction. Were that to change, we may need to reevaluate our choices in amplification.

Last of all I wanted to offer a couple of suggestions for papersoul. If you're looking for a low wattage amp that sounds like a much larger, meaner amp, give the H&K Edition Tube 20 a try. A fried of mine recently acquired one and I was completely blown away. This little 20W amp sounded every bit as good as my old Triamp and weighed about half as much as the head alone. It has a great rather Vox-ish clean channel and the gain channel reminds me of channel 2B on the Triamp. I plan to pick one up myself for home / recording as soon as I have a spare $650.

For a Rectifier alternative I'd suggest a Soldano Hot Rod 50. Very similar tone with far better clarity and no fizz. If you need two channels, the 50+ is the way to go. I haven't priced them lately, but you used to be able to get them for about $1000 used, which is pretty similar in price to a Recto.

 

[papersoul]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

I actually had my first gig tonight with the H&K SB and it sounded great! I keep the channel volumes around 9:00 so I can have the clean channel volume at 3:00 and man the sound guy asked me to turn up till my master was at noon! It sounded awesome.......real thick and juicy, with a lot of punch. I had no problem hearing myself.

I wonder if my Rivera will arrive tomorrow.

I am also waiting for an Ear Candy Boa 212 and an Ear Candy Buzzbomb 212 with Sugar Cone speakers.

I didn't see any amps on the Maven Peal site...am I crazy? LOL! What amps use the London Power scaling tech???

H&K Edition Tube 20 was an amp I had thought of as well! Maybe someday. Also, I thought about Soldanos and Egnators but I am going to give my Rivera a try or maybe even another VHT like the 50ST.

 

[korovamilkdud]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

I've usually got my master on 2 or 3 for my 100 watter, and that works just fine. Doesn't sound bad at all. 100 watts, yeah. I also use a tube pedal for distortion so...:foot:

 

[dystrust]

Re: 100 watt tube amps just too loud?

...give the H&K Edition Tube 20 a try. A fried of mine recently acquired one and I was completely blown away. I plan to pick one up myself for home / recording as soon as I have a spare $650.

I guess I didn't have to wait too long... My friend sold me his Tube 20 for $350 on Saturday.
Not sure I'd recommend this for a gigging amp because it was getting lost in the mix at rehearsal tonight. The clean sounded awesome, but I could barely hear myself on the dirty channel.