2-Hum 2-Vol 2-Tone 3-way toggle- coil split?

[sps1]

About to install a Jazz/neck and a JB in an older Gibson I have ('79 "The Paul" Walnut).

Quick question...

Beside the obvious locations of which pots you'd pull to split the pickup... is there any difference using the push-pull pots on the volume or tone pots. I was thinking they'd go on the tone pots ... there being 2 diagrams on the site placing them in either location has me wondering.?

 

[GuitarDoc]

There is no difference at all. It's all just a matter of preference and convenience. I personally find it more convenient to me to have the p/p on the tone pots, but others like them on the vol pots. Your choice.

 

[ErikH]

Yeah, it's preference. My 2009 LP Trad Pro came stock with push/pulls on the volume pots.

 

[sps1]

Cool... that's kind of what I thought. Thanks... I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Mincer]

Those walnut guitars were really cool. How do you like yours? Is it heavy?

 

[sps1]

I love the guitar... it was my first decent guitar purchased new in '79. I always liked the neck pickup but put a DiMarzio Super Distortion in the bridge mid 80's. I wish I knew where the old bridge pickup is, I'd probably like it now. I'll need to find a new home for the T-top neck PU I'll be swapping out here soon.
It's not as heavy as a standard LP... haven't weighed it but I'd say it's around 8lbs.
I'm putting new frets on it this weekend and wiring it up if all the parts show on Sat as scheduled.

I was going to start a new thread to ask the following... still may but maybe someone will catch this and point me in the right direction.

Wondering if it's possible to wire the two humbuckers where I could switch between 50's and Modern wiring...? Thinking the tone pots would need to both be a master tone for both pickups... one wired 50's the other modern?

*edit... I did just find a prewired harness that would do that but the switches are on the board in the control cavity. I think I'll just wire them up in a standard modern way with coil splits on two push-pull pots.

 

[Mincer]

I love the guitar... it was my first decent guitar purchased new in '79. I always liked the neck pickup but put a DiMarzio Super Distortion in the bridge mid 80's. I wish I knew where the old bridge pickup is, I'd probably like it now. I'll need to find a new home for the T-top neck PU I'll be swapping out here soon.
It's not as heavy as a standard LP... haven't weighed it but I'd say it's around 8lbs.
I'm putting new frets on it this weekend and wiring it up if all the parts show on Sat as scheduled.

I was going to start a new thread to ask the following... still may but maybe someone will catch this and point me in the right direction.

Wondering if it's possible to wire the two humbuckers where I could switch between 50's and Modern wiring...? Thinking the tone pots would need to both be a master tone for both pickups... one wired 50's the other modern?

*edit... I did just find a prewired harness that would do that but the switches are on the board in the control cavity. I think I'll just wire them up in a standard modern way with coil splits on two push-pull pots.

Interesting idea. I didn't know someone made a harness for that.

 

[sps1]

Obsidian Wire

Here are a couple links... the first is the switchable 50's-60's LP - second is Strat harnesses. I used their HSS custom harness earlier this year and love it.

https://obsidianwire.com/collections/pro-wire-your-les-paul®

https://obsidianwire.com/collections/pro-wire-your-strat®


A little expensive but high quality... the solderless system makes for a quick and somewhat easy (the first few connections are a PITA until you get the feel --- you need to press down a small plastic clip with a precision screwdriver while feeding the wire into a pretty small hole). Probably not something you'd do very often but once installed it would take about 15 minutes to swap in different pickups. I got a Custom HSS harness from them earlier this year for a SuperStrat remodel.

 

[beaubrummels]

There's no functional difference between whether the switches are on tones or volumes, but for consideration, there's a practical difference where my preference might be to have the switches on the tones because I keep those at 10 mostly and it's easy to pull and keep the knob rotated to 10, whereas I keep my volumes at different levels across different songs and pulling the knob can put my volume out of place from where I had it.

 

[Mincer]

Obsidian Wire

Here are a couple links... the first is the switchable 50's-60's LP - second is Strat harnesses. I used their HSS custom harness earlier this year and love it.

https://obsidianwire.com/collections/pro-wire-your-les-paul®

https://obsidianwire.com/collections/pro-wire-your-strat®


A little expensive but high quality... the solderless system makes for a quick and somewhat easy (the first few connections are a PITA until you get the feel --- you need to press down a small plastic clip with a precision screwdriver while feeding the wire into a pretty small hole). Probably not something you'd do very often but once installed it would take about 15 minutes to swap in different pickups. I got a Custom HSS harness from them earlier this year for a SuperStrat remodel.

Wow, great stuff! I've always liked the modular plug in approach. About time they start using it more in guitars.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Just to add, if you're just doing a simple coil split, you might want to use the "genuine Gibson" push-pulls.


https://www.sweetwater.com/store/de...dio-taper-potentiometer-push-pull-short-shaft


They're quite a bit more expensive than the non-branded / multi-branded six lug types, but they fit under the back covers much easier. They're simple SPST on/off switches too.

To wire for a coil split, just solder the red and white wires (SD colors) to one lug on the switch and ground the other lug to the side of the pot. In push you'll get full humbuckers, in pull you'll get coil splits.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Leave it to Gibson to make a simpler, less complicated, and less functional/versatile product and charge 5 times as much for it. Let's hear it for Gibson! Yea!

What is the actual measurement of the depth? It looks to me to be no shorter than CTS p/p pots.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Off the top of my head, and bearing in mind I'm on vacation 6,500 miles from my own ones, I'd say they are about 1/4 inch shallower, the crucial point being both the other types are just a little too long, and the Gibson ones aren't.

 

[sps1]

Someone let me know if what I'm thinking is correct with this wiring. The Seymour Duncan diagram isn't real clear on the orientation of the p/p pots. Insert with the CTS pots has red&white going to c2 and 3 to ground for a basic coil split.. Their pic is upside-down because that's how I'm looking at it. If I flip the SD diagram they are the same and it makes sense... where for the neck red&white to c1 and 1 to ground.? Thanks

 

[eclecticsynergy]

The Paul was a cool model. All walnut - both body and neck. Ebony fretboard.
Today not many know, but they had long tenon necks too.

At the time it was the only guitar I knew of which could make T-tops sound huge.

 

[Mincer]

The Paul was a cool model. All walnut - both body and neck. Ebony fretboard.
Today not many know, but they had long tenon necks too.

At the time it was the only guitar I knew of which could make T-tops sound huge.

Were The Paul and The SG known as heavy instruments? How do they sound compared to normal ones?

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Someone let me know if what I'm thinking is correct with this wiring. The Seymour Duncan diagram isn't real clear on the orientation of the p/p pots. Insert with the CTS pots has red&white going to c2 and 3 to ground for a basic coil split.. Their pic is upside-down because that's how I'm looking at it. If I flip the SD diagram they are the same and it makes sense... where for the neck red&white to c1 and 1 to ground.? Thanks

SD draws its wiring diagrams so that the "pull" contacts are nearest, pictorially, to the pot bodies.

Just use a multimeter or circuit tester to verify which lug you ground to the pot casing. Generally speaking, the worst outcome if you don't could be you get coil splits in the "push positions" and full humbuckers in the "pull positions". Easily corrected too.

 

[GuitarDoc]

Off the top of my head, and bearing in mind I'm on vacation 6,500 miles from my own ones, I'd say they are about 1/4 inch shallower

,


Well, they most likely aren't 1/4" shorter. That's a huge amount. Looks can be deceiving. If they are shorter I could imagine possibly 1-2mm. But, when you get back, I'd appreciate it if you could measure from the base of the shaft/top of the pot (where the pot would touch the inside of the control cavity) and the tip of the lugs.

the crucial point being both the other types are just a little too long, and the Gibson ones aren't.

Well, the crucial point is the actual depth (measurement) of the p/p pot.
I don't know about "The Paul" model...is it thinner than other Les Paul's? I've never had a problem fitting ANY p/p pot in a LP. It can be difficult (but not impossible) in an SG, but there's plenty of room in a LP.

 

[ThreeChordWonder]

Im not in a position to whip out my micrometer right now,, but...

From what I can see over the internetodolopis sat here in a café on vacation in Greece, the standard CTS plastic cased push-pull measures 25.5 mm (just over 1 inch - 25.4 mm) from the bottom of the shaft to the bottom of the casing. The Bournes / Fleor type are 27.7 mm, but that includes the ground tab, which can be cut off.

The Gibson ones' casings appear to be about the same depth as the potentiometer part. That typically measures 11.3 mm or about 7/16" giving about 7/8" or so total depth. The lugs on the push-pull of the Gibson ones do extend further. Those can, of course, be bent over to increase clearance.

As it happens I just changed the original Gibson pickups on my 2015 Gibson SG to SD P-Rails. I removed all the original Gibson electronics and boxed the stuff up with the pickups, ready to convert back to 99.9% original - solder being the other 0.1% - if or when I want to. Naturally the back cover fitted perfectly well with the Gibson push-pulls, but not with either the plastic cased CTS or the Bournes / Fleor types. I cut the ground tabs off the Fleors but the back plate still doesn't fit without bulging slightly. I'm going to make a "gasket" when I get home, maybe 1/16" thick, that will cure the bulge but still mean the cover is inside the cutout .

 

[eclecticsynergy]

Were The Paul and The SG known as heavy instruments? How do they sound compared to normal ones?

I think walnut is pretty dense, probably a bit heavier than mahog.
I don't remember The Paul being any heavier than most regular LPs; it's a thinner body after all.
Wouldn't surprise me if they averaged a bit heftier than similarly-sized LP Specials though.
And The SG probably would've been a tad heavier than most regular SGs, being the same size (I think).

Of course that's speaking in general terms - wood can vary enough that there may have been exceptions.

Tonewise I think walnut likely did add some fullness & depth to the sound.
The Paul sounded pretty big even with T-tops which are bright and not especially fat or rich.
A long tenon likely helped its sustain & liveliness a bit too.
I don't believe tenons affect tone much, but IME long tenon necks tend to feel more alive.

I was in a band for four years with a guy who played a The Paul. Never played a The SG, at least not that I can remember.
By '79 or '80 when these models came out I already knew SGs just don't match up well with my body geometry.