2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

[glassman]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

I don't think they are actually out of phase? If they were and you jumped them it would cause problems in the amp, and people jump these things on the daily. IIRC the only fenders like this where the channels are out of phase are the ones with reverb or tremolo, which... is pretty much the rest of them.

They are out of phase. Notice that there are three (inverting) stages in the bass preamp and two in the normal.

View attachment 23068

The different voicing of the two makes it work when jumpered.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

They are out of phase. Notice that there are three (inverting) stages in the bass preamp and two in the normal.

View attachment 23068

The different voicing of the two makes it work when jumpered.

Forgive my amp noobishness if I'm wrong about this, but when I jumpered the channels, it could get a kind of nasally tone, like how a guitar would sound with two pickups wired out of phase. Does it work like that, or is there something more I don't know?

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

I'd take 6L6's any day of the week over EL84's.

Great score.

I personally like the black face cosmetics better than the silver face, and since it sounds like it really IS a BF, I'd be tempted to replace the faceplate and grillcloth and piping. Just my opinion.

That's what I want to do. Is there a good place to get either repro (preferably, as they're probably cheaper) or NOS faceplates? How about grillcloth and piping?

Just sold my old amp for $150 a few minutes ago. Since I traded my SG (which was my backup) for the Bassman, I'm getting a new guitar! Hopefully it'll be here next week.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

That's what I want to do. Is there a good place to get either repro (preferably, as they're probably cheaper) or NOS faceplates? How about grillcloth and piping?

Just sold my old amp for $150 a few minutes ago. Since I traded my SG (which was my backup) for the Bassman, I'm getting a new guitar! Hopefully it'll be here next week.

Oh man, no way! Leave it stock! With all the reissues and such, everyone and their dog has BF cosmetics. The SF look will grow on you. It looks way more unique to have a SF - especially with the BF circuit under the hood. It's like the sleeper hot rod that no one sees coming. If you really want to clean it up, take some Armour All cleaning wipes to it.

I wish I'd have had the brains to get an amp like that when I was 19.

 

[Reload in 5]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

Just sold my old amp for $150 a few minutes ago. Since I traded my SG (which was my backup) for the Bassman, I'm getting a new guitar! Hopefully it'll be here next week.

Hopefully!
I am jealous though, with you getting the bassman and all.......

It will all be better if I have a taylor in my hands though!

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

I wish I'd have had the brains to get an amp like that when I was 19.

I'm sure he'll take the piss out of me for this to no end, but EP actually inspired me to get one. He said he got it when he was 14 instead of getting whatever modeler they were hyping back then, and hasn't had major problems since. I should have done more research back when I bought the Palomino and got this instead, but I think that getting the Crate actually helped me. Because of the assballs distortion, it forced me to use dirt pedals to pump up the ample clean channel. And since that's what most everyone playing rock with a Bassman does to it anyway, it seemed like a natural choice.

Plus, that amp's got more ass than a liposuction facility

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

It makes me wish I'd kept my 68 Dual Showman head (100W).

I bought it in 1994 from a Hollywood pawn shop for a measly $150 because the pawn shop owner thought it needed servicing. I didn't tell him that one of the power tubes was plugged in wrong because it's pin guide was missing. lol

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

It makes me wish I'd kept my 68 Dual Showman head (100W).

I bought it in 1994 from a Hollywood pawn shop for a measly $150 because the pawn shop owner thought it needed servicing. I didn't tell him that one of the power tubes was plugged in wrong because it's pin guide was missing. lol

:doh:

I bet that amp was amazing. I'm finally able to appreciate the 6L6 cleans. Even my Bassman, which is I'm sure nowhere near as pristine as a Twin/Dual Showman - even at low volumes - has wonderful cleans. God, I love it. And I have the peace of mind that comes with buying a vintage fender - it'll probably outlast me. That's worth not being able to crank it up all the time like I could with the 30W Crate.

In short, I love it. Can't wait until tomorrow when everyone GTFO's the house so I can crank this bad motha

 

[astrozombie]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

I almost got one of em. whats it like, really?

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

I almost got one of em. whats it like, really?

Kind of hard to describe since I haven't had much time to fully open it up - or even play it. I'm gonna be able to open it up for a solid two hours tomorrow afternoon though, so I'll give a more detailed impression then.
Initial impression - low volume cleans are great. Very full-bodied when you turn the bass up. The bass knob has an extremely wide range. I got about as much bass response full up on my old amp as the Bassman has around 4 or 5. I haven't had too much hands-on time with blackface reissues - although the music department has four or five DRRI's for guitarists to use, so I'll use that as my reference point.
Compared to the DRRI, the bassman has much more bass and less high-end shimmer. The amp breaks up really well, and it's got a lot of low end grunt when it does. Playing my Parker PM20 with a coil-split JB gave convincingly strat-like tones - impressive, considering it's a set neck TOM/thru strung. Boosting it with the BoR or the Keeley TS9 was heaven. No other word but heaven. Nice thing about boosting it is that it can really tighten up the enormous ass of this amp. More of a vintage-modern kind of bass response, if that makes any sense.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

Plus, I think you got one that was serviced to sound as good as possible.
Morons don't buy Heyboer transformers.

Next move you should make is selling the Crate head and cab, then get it's matching cab. But keep your speakers for the Fender cab because they're better.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

Plus, I think you got one that was serviced to sound as good as possible.
Morons don't buy Heyboer transformers.

That's for sure. I'm not sure if the previous owner is the one that replaced the OT, but it would make sense. This guy sure knew his stuff. He said he'd been through two different Two Rocks, three different Komets, a Fuchs or two, all the expensive Fenders and Marshalls before settling on an Electrodyne. He still has some old 100W Hiwatt from 80-81 that he said is about 10 times louder than the bassman. That made me wince a bit.

Next move you should make is selling the Crate head and cab, then get it's matching cab. But keep your speakers for the Fender cab because they're better.

I couldn't agree more. I just sold the head to buy a new guitar. At some point this year when I have the money, I'll start looking for a SF Bassman 2x12. I could go for a 2x15, but I don't think that'd be necessary. The 2x12 has more bass than I imagined possible.

However, I could completely misunderstand the tonal differences of 15" speakers vs. 12" speakers. What are the differences? If they help focus the lows, I think that'd be a great purchase.
PS - what's the most you'd pay for a SF Bassman 2x12? What about a 2x15? There's some ****ing idiot on ebay trying to get about $3k for his 2x15, just cause it's got the original D140's in it. Those speakers aren't worth that much, are they?

EDIT: Just remembered that the Bassman has an 8ohm OT. Doesn't that mean that I couldn't use it with a SF cab? I'm pretty sure those are only wired for 4ohms.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

The Bassman is better with 15's for bass guitar, and better with 12's for guitar.

Eventually, you'll find a Fender SF 212 for a good price. I'm not sure which speakers they came with, but I'm pretty sure your Celestions are the way to go.

 

[Kam]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

I can't remember if I already posted in this thread but even if I did, that amp deserves two posts. Freakin' awesome, dude. Congratulations. Totally want.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

I can't say enough about this amp. I completely understand why so many people use them, and I can't help but wonder why they're not worth more. Although they have gone up in price in recent years - who knows, maybe the drip-edge Fenders will be worth a pretty penny someday.

One thing I'm noticing is that while the Bassman loves pedals, it is a bit picky about which pedals it takes. I'm rearranging most of my pedals for this amp, and upgrading the weak points, because they're much more obvious with this amp.

My idea is to kind of have a three channel pedalboard. What I want to do is get a AB/Y box and a two channel, true bypass looper. The signal path will look something like this:
Tuner-->Wah-->ABY box
Channel A of the box:-->Phase 45-->Bassman bass channel
Channel B of the box:-->True Bypass looper
Channel 1 of the looper: Vibe pedal--> BYOC DS-1 clone
Channel 2 of the looper: BYOC Triboost-->Zvex Box of Rock
Looper out--->Bassman Normal channel
While that looks much more complicated typed out than it does in my head, here's how I'm thinking it'd work:

Channel A of the ABY box would be by clean channel. I'd have the Phase 45 there if I ever wanted to add some depth to my cleans. I might add a chorus at some point.
Channel 1 of the looper would be crunch channel 1.
Channel 2 of the looper would be crunch channel 2/lead. The BoR is an awesome crunch tone, and pushing it with a treble booster would be a great way to get a different gain flavor. Plus, the Super Hard On built into the BoR would be like a solo boost. So this is almost like two channels with a boost, all in one.
Running the wah is great, because then I have it on all channels. It sounds best there anyway.

Does that seem like overkill to anyone? Any suggestions?

 

[Empty Pockets]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

that's the only amp i used for years until i got the Marshall Class 5 for small practice configuration

frankly i still think it's the only amp i need...if i had to sell the Marshall i could still use the Bassman for everything...

 

[guitfiddle]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

I dug mine while I had it. Only reason it went bye bye was because my Music Man is fully capable of all the tones the Bassman had in it, and it will also do tones the Bassman couldn't do.

Still, those are great, slightly under rated amps.

 

[AudioWonderland]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

It's a 68, possibly an early 69. You can tell by the "drip edge" which is the metal trim around the grill cloth.

Nice amp, especially with the upgraded Heyboer transformer and likely blackface circuit

Agreed. I have that exact Bassman head sans the upgraded transformer. Other than basic maintenance items mine is stock. Sounds fabulous. I have a 67 blackface Bassman head as well that sounds quite different but still really sweet.

I use a repro 2x12 fender cab loaded with Texas heats with both heads.

 

[AudioWonderland]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

that's the only amp i used for years until i got the Marshall Class 5 for small practice configuration

frankly i still think it's the only amp i need...if i had to sell the Marshall i could still use the Bassman for everything...

I agree. Overall its a lot quieter than a 50m Marshall which makes it useful for a lot more situations.

 

[Reload in 5]

Re: 2 tubes are better than 4 (NAD)

Does that seem like overkill to anyone? Any suggestions?

overkill? maybe
I would be more likely to do just the ABY, and pick one dirt pedal, use the boost for solos

But then again, I use a single channel amp with a OD and Chorus and thats it.