59/custom hybrid mag swapping

[LtKojak]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

Mag swapping on the 59/Custom Hybrid is almost ridiculous.

How so?

It's already tweaked and sounds great as-is.

I beg to differ...

If anything, A2 might be cool or UOA5 would give it some vintage velvety softness, but all of the qualities it has going for it in stock form are what makes it great. If you want to put an A8 then why bother with the hybrid?

I beg your pardon? I just can't follow your reasoning.

You might as well get an Alt 8, PATB-2, or Crunch Lab or something.

What are you saying here? That any of the p'ups aforementioned sound the same as the Hybrid? If that what you think, then I can tell you that's NOT so.

The Jazz MIGHT benefit from an A8,but it's such a powerful magnet that I doubt it will balance properly with any bridge. You would have to lower it so much that it will become almost useless. Then you would lose all that high end detail and balanced low end that makes the Jazz a great neck pickup.

Who is talking about an A8 in a neck p'up????? You lost me here.

Honestly, I think magnet swapping is becoming ridiculous.

You know what they say: one man's trash is another man's treasure"

It's a nice option if you have a SPECIFIC, minor change in mind, but if you don't know exactly what you want to achieve, it equates to just time spent experimenting.

I think this phrase says a lot more about yourself than the opinion on the subject itself.

The qualities of each pickup are already posted out there. I just imagine how a minor variance in output and tone matches with the tonal qualities of the magnet type and it always gives me pretty much an accurate idea of what I find when I do the swap. I haven't really been surprised yet.

That's because you're all about EXPECTANCY, so you BIAS yourself and don't use your EARS to judge the outcome. It happens to many, and it's not a crime. However, it doesn't add to the credibility, mind you.

These days, it's the amp + speakers mostly. Most pickups are essentially a matter of output, feel and basic underlying EQ. Some pickups, like certain Dimarzios, have rather unique sounds, but most pickups sound similar except with minor EQ differences. I look at pickups is kind of the link between me and the amp rather than a major part of the tone. You can swap magnets and tweak all you like, and you might just get lucky, but most of the time you have to have a specific purpose in mind or your pickups need to be designed with that certain magnet in mind perhaps.

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to one.

I, however, beg to differ to certain aspects of this part of the post.

I'm just being honest here because I think mag swapping on the 59/Custom Hybrid is pretty much a waste of time.

Yeah, for the third time, you've already said that. And I, for the third time, still beg to differ.

Get yourself one of those roughcast A2 magnets and you will have a little more thickness, a little less top end brightness, but you are going to lose a little output. A polished A2 will be slightly more powerful and give you the same effect but not exactly the same vintage softness. UOA5 will probably work perfect tonally, but he 59/Custom already feels loose to me and wouldn't feel right with UOA5. Plus, you will lose a little power.

How many Hybrids did you actually mag swapped with the mags you're talking about? I have to ask, as your descriptions are not quite in line with my experiences, so I'd like to know the context of use that led to your opinion.

Ceramic will definitely be thicker and more powerful, but I don't think it will tame the high end or add any mids.

Comparing it to what, exactly? If you're talking about the stock Hybrid, then I may have to beg to differ again.

A8 will be thick and warm, but you will lose a lot of things that make it a cool pickup. It's too powerful and you won't have the dynamics and all that.

Again, I beg to differ.

You might as well get one of those Liberators and turn it into an active pickup or something.

Sorry, but an A8 Hybrid doesn NOT sound like an active p'up.

Looks like we both hear things quite differently... maybe we both talk about completely different contexts, but even then... don't know.

Bottom Line: if you think mag swap is a waste of time, fine. We, that think differently, are quite happy doing it with many excellent results, not to mention the enjoyment of the journey into the discovery of what uncharted territories may have to offer.

HTH,

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

You're right, mag swapping should be banned, or at least heavily regulated! It's gotten out of control and politicians need to step in. After all, PU makers already design their PU's to sound perfect in every wood & model of guitar, thru every amp (tube and solid state) and every possible speaker combination, and for every genre. How on earth could anyone have the nerve to think they could tailor a PU to fit their specific situation better than a one-size-fits-all PU? It's an affrontery to decent civilized people. These magnet-happy guys have a lot of gall, I'm telling you. And even worse, some of them are just wasting their time 'experimenting', like that's ever produced anything of value throughout human history! Heretics! Freethinkers! Burn them at the stake I say!

I'm a little surprised by your overreaction Blueman. That's not at all even in the vicinity of what I was saying but you apparently have a problem or a problem with me so you can take whatever problem it is and shove it.

How so?


I beg to differ...


I beg your pardon? I just can't follow your reasoning.


What are so saying here? That any of the p'ups aforementioned sound the same as the Hybrid? If that what you think, then I can tell you that's NOT so.



Who is talking about an A8 in a neck p'up????? You lost me here.


You know what they say: one man's trash is another man's treasure"


I think this phrase says a lot more about yourself than the opinion on the subject itself.



That's because you're all about EXPECTANCY, so you BIAS yourself and don't use your EARS to judge the outcome. It happens to many, and it's not a crime. However, it doesn't add to the credibility, mind you.



That's your opinion, and you're entitled to one.

I, however, beg to differ to certain aspects of this part of the post.


Yeah, for the third time, you've already said that. And I, for the third time, still beg to differ.


How many Hybrids did you actually mag swapped with the mags you're talking about? I have to ask, as your descriptions are not quite in line with my experiences, so I'd like to know the context of use that led to your opinion.

Comparing it to what, exactly? If you're talking about the stock Hybrid, then I may have to beg to differ again.


Again, I beg to differ.


Sorry, but an A8 Hybrid doesn NOT sound like an active p'up.

Looks like we both hear things quite differently... maybe we both talk about completely different contexts, but even then... don't know.

Bottom Line: if you think mag swap is a waste of time, fine. We, that think differently, are quite happy doing it with many excellent results, not to mention the enjoyment of the journey into the discovery of what uncharted territories may have to offer.

HTH,

I'm also a little surprised with you LTKojack. As someone I recently started to acquire some respect for, you sure did overreact and misunderstand everything I said. Like I told Blueman, I'm not hurting for friends so you can take whatever problem it is you have with me and shove it. I've already stated things clearly enough and if you require a dissertation to understand it then no amount of explanation will help you.

 

[blueman335]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

I'm a little surprised by your overreaction Blueman. That's not at all even in the vicinity of what I was saying but you apparently have a problem or a problem with me so you can take whatever problem it is and shove it.

I'm also a little surprised with you LTKojack. As someone I recently started to acquire some respect for, you sure did overreact and misunderstand everything I said. Like I told Blueman, I'm not hurting for friends so you can take whatever problem it is you have with me and shove it. I've already stated things clearly enough and if you require a dissertation to understand it then no amount of explanation will help you.

Always nice to see mature adults on this forum. If multiple people are misunderstanding you, obviously the problem is them, not you.

 

[gripweed]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

Always nice to see mature adults on this forum. If multiple people are misunderstanding you, obviously the problem is them, not you.

You'd better look where you're pointing. I didn't misunderstand him at all and I noticed you were overreacting.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

You know what would be awesome Ubermetaldude? Instead of getting indignant every time someone disagrees with your assertions, you could engage them and their points and try and create a discourse that serves the purpose of the forum.

 

[LtKojak]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

I'm also a little surprised with you LTKojack.

Really..?

As someone I recently started to acquire some respect for, you sure did overreact and misunderstand everything I said.

*I* don't think so.

I'm not hurting for friends so you can take whatever problem it is you have with me and shove it.

You're the one with the problem. And the problem is have your opinion challenged with reason. That's why you chose to add the insult.

I've already stated things clearly enough and if you require a dissertation to understand it then no amount of explanation will help you.

I don't take your word as the word of God and I don't worship everything you say; specially when it's about my particular area of expertise, which I happen to care about, being filled with inaccuracies and fallacies. Sorry mate, some things I just can't let go!

If you really think so, then we agree: there's no help for your lack of reasoning behind the argument, or the misconceptions and/or misinformation they're based on. Plus, there's no insult added.

See? It's NOT personal. Just Business.

 

[blueman335]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

You'd better look where you're pointing. I didn't misunderstand him at all and I noticed you were overreacting.

But he didn't overract by telling two members, in the same thread, to 'shove it?' Bizarre.

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

Really..?


*I* don't think so.


You're the one with the problem. And the problem is have your opinion challenged with reason. That's why you chose to add the insult.



I don't take your word as the word of God and I don't worship everything you say; specially when it's about my particular area of expertise, which I happen to care about, being filled with inaccuracies and fallacies. Sorry mate, some things I just can't let go!

If you really think so, then we agree: there's no help for your lack of reasoning behind the argument, or the misconceptions and/or misinformation they're based on. Plus, there's no insult added.

See? It's NOT personal. Just Business.

You lost my respect.

But he didn't overract by telling two members, in the same thread, to 'shove it?' Bizarre.

You also lost my respect.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

You also lost my respect.

Congratulations, you're now a true SDUGF member.

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

Congratulations, you can be a brown-nosed ass-kisser like me now!

Na. You are a far, far, far better ass-kisser than I am. Approval just doesn't appeal to me as much as it does to you. Therefore, I'm doomed to being a mildly neglected forum outcast forever.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

As much as I would love to continue this insult battle, I don't want to sully the OP's thread and get it locked, as seems to happen in far too many threads you post in.

 

[UberMetalDood]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

As much as I would love to continue this insult battle, I don't want to sully the OP's thread and get it locked, as seems to happen in far too many threads you post in.

You need to check your facts. Besides, I'm surprised you don't get a ton of threads locked from your brain-buster comments:

"So I tried a Silver Jubilee last week
To sum up my opinion of it in one word: Meh."

"I'm Looking for a Topic for an Academic Research Paper " - So you solicit ideas on a pickup forum? Your assignment wasn't that hard dude.

"So Fred Phelps Died
I thought there would be rejoicing throughout the nation. Or are we not supposed to talk about it and I just missed the memo?" - Cannibalizing your own?

"I'm High on Cocaine" - Ah, I thought it was methamphetamines... my bad.

"Is Wearing a Hitler 'Stache Really That Bad?"

"It was five years ago this month that I decided that I wanted Seymour Duncan pickups for my cool new Agile PRS clone (P-Rails, as I recall. I still miss that guitar on occasion, mostly for the pickups.) In the time since then, I've changed radically as a person. I've gone through many high points and even more low points, but I've come out a far better person for it. A lot of my musical improvements and even some of my personal ones I can attribute to this forum." - Oh God, please. Ass-kissery at its best.

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q6RZZf6HMzo" - Vaginal knitting really? Who knows that you are typing into the search box to come up with this stuff

"Wealth = Amorality" - Real genius here

ETC..............................


You can criticize me, but you obviously have flaws of your own.

 

[CTN]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

I like magnets.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

I like magnets.

Me too dude.

This thread has got me jonesing to swap the magnet in my 59/C. I'm loving the tone of my PG8 so I can't help but wonder how a 59/C8 would sound. I bet it would be fantastic, but it might be a bit too hot for my needs in that guitar. Is there a magnet that's like an A8 tonally but lower output? I'm only just starting to get really into mag swapping, even though I've done it at least half a dozen times.

 

[EET_FUK]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

I'm with Blueman, Kojak, and Agileguy on this one.

Also, I approve of the idea of putting an A8 in the hybrid because I want to try it as well.

Furthermore, Agileguy should try a PG/C hybrid with an A8. Mostly because I'm interested in that one as well.

 

[jimijames]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

Me too dude.

This thread has got me jonesing to swap the magnet in my 59/C. I'm loving the tone of my PG8 so I can't help but wonder how a 59/C8 would sound. I bet it would be fantastic, but it might be a bit too hot for my needs in that guitar. Is there a magnet that's like an A8 tonally but lower output? I'm only just starting to get really into mag swapping, even though I've done it at least half a dozen times.

I know, right? Magnet swapping can be addictive. I have a variant of the 59/custom - it's more like a double-screw evh/custom now that I think about it - that I've had A2, A4, A5, UOA5, and an A8 in. I've also cut one of those metal spacers in half, and used some nylon washers. The idea is that you want the magnetic field strongest towards the bridge on the low/wound strings, and towards the neck on the plain/high strings.

Now, it's my understanding, that the permanent magnet in the pickup magnetizes the strings, and when the strings vibrate, their 'borrowed' magnetic field oscillates. But! That to me doesn't explain why A8 (a very powerful magnet) can be so smooth on the top end, while ceramic and A5 both have harsher treble. IIRC, ceramic is more powerful, and A5 less so. To my ears, at least, A8 was as smooth as A2, but with higher output.

You also have to contemplate how the output of the pickup makes you play. A higher output pickup will be more compressed, just by virtue of smaller inputs having higher outputs - when the magnet is stronger, so will the oscillation giving rise to the output of the pickup.

Because the distance from the magnetized strings is (essentially) infinitely adjustable vis a vis the pickup height screws, you can dial in precisely the output you want from any pickup, but again, if it were just a matter of how close the pickup were to the strings, theoretically you could make a ceramic magnet sound identical to an A5 if you backed the pickup off enough. But I never found that to be the case when I was swapping magnets - for reasons I don't understand, an A8 no matter the distance always had this very prominent midrange snarl that A5 lacked.

Likewise even though all these descriptors are qualitative and elude precise delineation, they're consistent! The guy in Greece, or Italy, that's swapping magnets hears the same things we're hearing here. The only other piece of information we have is that the orientation of the particles within the magnet (as is the case with unoriented alnico 5 vs. regular alinco 5) has some effect on the sound.

Which is weird, because we conceptualize a magnetic field, as this kind of unitary thing. But maybe it isn't? Just because treating it like one big thing works in practice, doesn't mean that's the case. Newtonian physics will tell you what your escape velocity is, more or less, but relativity tells us how long it takes.

There's a really great Isaac Asimov letter, that he wrote in response to an English major. Asimov said "I am glad to live near the zenith of human technological development." The English major replied, "we thought the world was flat; it is not. We thought the universe called its center the earth, but we have since learned that the earth revolves around the sun, and the sun around the center of a galaxy which is itself not remotely close to the center of the universe. How can you say we are near the zenith of our scientific knowledge?"

Asimov replied, "we thought the earth was flat until we could travel far enough to measure its curvature; Geocentricism died when Copernicus measured more accurately the paths of the stars. No such proposition has been rejected in its entirety, it has only been modified so as to make it more correct." So maybe that's the case with magnetic fields - who knows? That's what makes it fun.

I don't know the answer to that question. What I do know, is that (1) I f****** love semicolons, (2) magnet swapping in s 59/custom hybrid is all kinds of fun.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

Lots of good info in the above post!

It's funny, I'm actually pretty happy with the tone I get from my 59/C and I haven't considered swapping magnets in the near year I've had it until I put an A8 in my PG a week ago. I was extremely impressed with the results and I love the tone from that guitar even more now. I would go out and put an A8 in my 59/C based on the tone of the magnet in my PG, but I feel in the 59/C it would be too much output for what I use that guitar for. I think that an A2 would be a nice compromise between the tone of the A8 and the lower output of the A2.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

I think a lot of new members go through the magnet swapping phase. I know I did. I bought a Distortion set, and it just wasn't what I was looking for, despite everyone's love for it. Turns out the problem was more with my amp than the pickups. But I went through quite a few mags in the bridge and the neck, mainly because I didn't want to shell out for another set of pickups. But eventually I did. And then I went through the mag dance there also. It really is very low risk, and it's a cheap way to see if there's something better to be had with just a couple of bucks and a half hour's worth of time.

It may or may not be necessary, but the risk to reward ratio is something I think makes it a viable option in pickup swapping discussions.

 

[Natman]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

...if you don't know exactly what you want to achieve, it equates to just time spent experimenting.

This. The experimenting is great (GREAT!) fun, but ultimately there are enough options out there to satisfy the vast majority of anyone's discerning tonal desires. Now the main advantage is of course cost. It's cheaper to swap a magnet than to change a pickup. Also, hybrids are great for a similar reason -swap 2 coils instead of buying a new pickup. Personally I got tired of pulling my guitars apart and restringing because I was not always happy with the change in tone. I am quite surprised at how many different grades of alnico have come out in recent years however.

At some point, you should just learn to roll your own if you really have to have such a precise tone that is not available on the market.

These days, it's the amp + speakers mostly.

This also is a wise statement. I want to point out that changing amps is (by far) the most expensive of these suggestions, and I say pickups & speakers are the first things any guitarist should experiment with if they already have an axe (or many) they are happy with. IMO every player should have at least 2 different guitars and 2 different amps unless you have nailed the sound you want and have absolutely no interest in expanding beyond that. I couldn't do it myself, that would be like only eating the same meal every day for the rest of your life. Don't get me wrong, a good Les Paul and Marshall is an awfully good meal, but you get my point...

 

[Falloffthebonetone]

Re: 59/custom hybrid mag swapping

I think I'm gonna go with a polished a2 mag to start and flip the pickup around so the stronger custom coil is closer to the bridge. If it's not me then I'll flip it back around and if THAT doesn't work I'll do the same with an a8. I'll order them on thursday.