Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
They are not.
They are very similar, but not the same. If you swap mags JB to Double Ceramic, or Distortion to A5, you get very (extremely) close, but not the same. Close enough that I practically do not care.
A dumb question - JB/Distortion hybrid?
- Thread starter Seashore
- Start date
They are not.
They are very similar, but not the same. If you swap mags JB to Double Ceramic, or Distortion to A5, you get very (extremely) close, but not the same. Close enough that I practically do not care.
Nobody has actually made a JB/Distortion bridge hybrid by using one coil from each, so nobody's talking about how amazeballs it is. Reading through all of this I suspect that you (and a few other people) are right that any difference would be extremely subtle. Since you've actually gotten to talk to people at Duncan about coil mismatch, how different would you say is different enough to make a meaningful difference?
Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
It would sound like a distinct pickup if you were to make it. Although the 2 pickups have similar eqs, the Distortion has an overall more modern sound, more solid bass, a bit more defined top, and rings out cleaner without a mid clog. You'd hear this contribution in a hybrid.
User Blueman used to talk about using hybrids between a Jazz neck and Jazz bridge or 59 neck and 59 bridge just because of the slight heat mismatch while being the same recipe.
User Blueman used to talk about using hybrids between a Jazz neck and Jazz bridge or 59 neck and 59 bridge just because of the slight heat mismatch while being the same recipe.
Gabrielinconfident
New member
As I said in other messages, if you take 50 JBs or 50 DDs, you'll get "very extremely close" tones, but not exactly the same, because if the copper ore came from Chile or China, it'll be slightly different. You're being obnoxious for no reason; 10 years ago in this very forum everyone already knew DD and JB have the same coils, I have no idea why it has since become a debate.
Gabrielinconfident
New member
Yes, 100%, because the DD uses ceramic magnets, which are brighter and more scooped than A5 :smack:
beaubrummels
Well-known member
I'm curious how they did A2 under just the treble poles using bar magnets? They cut a ceramic bar and an A2 bar in half width-wise then assembled them end to end? Kind of surprised the Custom Shop would go that far. Usually they only make variants using stock parts available.
Another thing to note, which was in the thread in the first link I posted, is that it appears on occasion rumors like this even get some internal Duncan employees confused and they'll even repeat it. But whoever designed the pickup or actually winds it and has to set up the machine would know for sure, so unless someone is talking to them and they are willing to confirm or deny as fact (not just consensus post confusion), it likely won't be resolved on an internet forum.
beaubrummels
Well-known member
Gabrielinconfident
New member
Yes. MJ made the pickup for me. See the attachments for the recently taken high res pictures (I'm actually selling this).
As I mentioned, I did speak directly to them when I ordered the hybrid custom, both by email and on the phone, and they did confirm it back then. Also, note that the stated DC res on my pup is 16.2kΩ, which is again consistent with the material tolerance.
Attachments
Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Comparing both pickups with A5. :smack:
Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Seriously cut the bull shit. The JB and Distortion with alnico in it are 2 of my favorite bridge pickups. I've not only tested both pickups with the same magnet, I've spent hours and hours with them. I know for a fact they're separate pickups. If you actually stfu, get off the forum, clean the wax out of ur ear, turn off the distortion box, and compare the 2 pickups with the same mag, you'd see how obvious it is. Stfu with the you heard a rumor so it must be true.
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Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
#1 I am stating a fact - as presented by multiple people we know and trust, as well as from multiple people with multiple encounters with Duncan employees who really do know.
- You are arguing against facts that people know to be true.
- Read what Beaubrummels posted, the three links. Tell me that is wrong.
#2 10 years ago in this very forum people were wrong, and you can see they have changed their tune because of what was presented by the people in Beaubrummels post(s)
#3 I'm not even going to get into the whole Chinese vs Chilean copper. Variance? Yes. Detectable by human ears? Doubtful. I guess Dogs and Eric Johnson might be able to tell the difference, but as a scientist, I'd gladly design that experiment and bet big money they can't.
Again - you are entitled to your opinion - but a lot of people presenting a lot of factual information.
I'm sticking with they are different, but so similar that it may or may not make an audible difference, but the magnet used with explain the majority of it, and if you use an A5 it would be identified as a JB and if you used a Double Thick Ceramic it would be identified as a Distortion, extremely minor differences aside.
Gabrielinconfident
New member
Nice ad hominem you got there. And language. Very mature.
Gabrielinconfident
New member
Here's what you said in the message I to which I was replying:
"If you swap mags JB to Double Ceramic, or Distortion to A5, you get very (extremely) close"
So it's so close that you don't care about the minimal difference, but different enough that it negates material tolerances? You're saying they're "too similar to tell apart", but also too different to just say it's the same design? Pick one.
Anyway, I don't care what you guys think. The only reason I commented on this post is because OP was thinking of going through a lot of work and time for a project that I think wouldn't be worth the result, and I think there are better alternatives to achieving a middle-ground between those two models. I was only trying to be helpful and save the guy some time and effort. If you yourself think the end result of swapping coils is too close to the original pickups, I hope you agree. But this polemic is pointless; I talked to people at SD and they said it was the same coils, you talked to people at SD and they said they're different coils. Who knows, maybe someone lied, maybe they were mistaken, maybe the design was slightly changed over the years without it being publicised. Regardless, people are getting needlessly angry, attacking me, and now I'm wasting my time defending a position that has no consequence in anyone's life.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
Well then we all agree.
Let's be civil to each other here. They may be the same, they may be so close that it doesn't matter.
Does it really matter? People can research past threads on this and there is truth in there. But don't cling to your beliefs so much that you can't be cool to other members here.
Does it really matter? People can research past threads on this and there is truth in there. But don't cling to your beliefs so much that you can't be cool to other members here.
Clint 55
OH THE DOUBLE THICK GLAZE!
Here's the thing, I'm entitled to determine what is factual from my dedicated observations. If someone denies me that, they're being uncivil. That's like if I said I found my strat to sound jangly and someone told me that's only a belief of mine. That's absurd. I've spent hours with an A5 Distortion and it is plain old a different pickup. There are not 1 but several qualities which differentiate it from a JB. Only 1 different quality would prove they're different but there are several. A5 DD compared to JB: 1. Overall modern character compared to JB's more natural character. 2. Rings clean bottom to top without JB's mid clog. 3. Fizzy mids. 4. Firmer more solid bass not cut up like JB's. 5. More of a true top end.
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beaubrummels
Well-known member
I think part of the problem lies in people relying on resistance as the sole measure of similarity. There are other characteristics in the construction that define a particular pickup.
Aceman
I am your doctor of love!
It no doubt has some things beyond the engineering "stats"
And what is real vs what we believe are of course, two different things.
But is is clear that the magnets of a JB and a Distortion are quite different. And it is also quite clear that the winds are not the same. However, people who have done the experiment tend to believe that either they are the same or are practically the same, so as to the magnet being the primary differentiator.
And for someone going to the effort of making a Hybrid, it does make a difference.
I propose the OP record their JB, record their distortion, then record the hybrid. Set the pickups up the same, play the same music, and put a blind recording up with samples of each, and see if we can tell.
It is the only way to be sure!
How would this work. The Distortion's ceramic magnet is doublethick, and alnico is regular. Also, how would you split it?! It's a bar magnet afterall.
I concur with this analyses; I have made DDalnico5 as well, because at first I was under the impression that the DD=JB, but it is NOT. I noticed it to the extreme when I tried the jb/fullshred hybrid against the distortion/fullshred hybrid and the black winter/fullshred hybrid. The differences were just too great. All the same magnet, baseplate, and fullshred coil, but different 'other'. If the other coil was all the same, the pickups would sound the same but it didn't. By making the hybrid, the differences were exacerbated.
DD=/=JB coil. That's my analysis. Do with that what you will. DCR is a poor measurement and always has been.
