A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

[super rad stuff]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

I checked the specks on a CC and man-o-mam they have huge output. Too hot for me I think. I want the tubes and amp to drive the tone so I want low output.

I am afraid p-90 will be trebely in the bridge and PG too. Any other options, or a I wrong about this?

the CC isn't very much higher output than a paf-level pickup, it just has a higher resistance rating because it's wound with a thinner wire. for a growly sound though, i'd definitely not go CC. it's very fat and somewhat smooth, and would probably be a better tonal match with an a2pro neck. phat cats on the other hand are very cool too, but i wouldn't exactly call them growly or smooth. they're very unique in that they behave like a humbucker, they just have more high end clarity and hum. you could get them to growl, but not with their a2/a2 magnets in each one. also they're not really matched output wise, with the neck sometimes overpowering the bridge. if you want a bit more grit and output in the bridge, i'd say a8/a5 and for the neck maybe a4/a3.

 

[Christopher Caruana]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

yes what rad ska said. the CC is a hod rodded PAF. Not super hot, but with the A2 magnet, it has vintage characteristics. Its VERY fat and smooth sounding. Sounds a lot like Van Halen "fair warning" through "1984"

 

[LPClassic]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

So this leaves PG's?? In both positions??

 

[super rad stuff]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

yes.
btw i've heard that system of a down recorded some stuff with pearly gates, and i'm not totally sure but it sounds like they used it alot on the first 2 albums. you may want to check that out, but like i said i'm not totally sure that they did use them.

 

[Christopher Caruana]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

So this leaves PG's?? In both positions??

you could do that. Or if you want a little more out of the bridge you could do CC bridge, PG neck

either way, it'll rock

 

[The Usual]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

Gibson p-94s or APH into a tube screamer type pedal, lower powered alnico speakes like a weber 12a150. Greenbacks may work too. And detune your cab if you want growl.

Personally, I wouldn't put a PG in a les paul bridge. More little dog yap than big dog growl.

 

[Micah]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

+1, or some other humbucker sized P-90.

+ a million. There is no pickup out there that Ive ever heard that growls more than a nice P90. That is the basis of the tone your looking for in my opinion.

Additionally, if you're looking to upgrade speakers and dont mind dropping 500 for 2-Get the Celestian Alnico Golds in there. The sweetest midrangy (growly) breakup known to man, and they handle enough wattage for your 50 watt amp.

 

[blueman335]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

For a nice growl, I put a couple Phat Cats in a LP; an A5/A3 magnet pair in the neck PC (for better clarity, less mud, and some bite), and a A8/A4 in the bridge (for stronger output, midrange punch, and rawness). To me, these growl better than any A2 PAF HB's. You have a lot more flexibility with P-90 type PU's with their twin magnets. If a HB doesn't quite do what you want in your wood, you have a few options, but with a P-90/Phat Cat, you can really dial it in. You can use an A2 paired with 5 other magnets (A2, A3, A4, A5, A8).

 

[LPClassic]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

If I went with Alnico pros and a tube screamer (which I have), would I get a better growl with ANTS, Seth Lovers or Pros?
:jester:

 

[Aceman]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

You want growl? BOSS HM-2 set for low gain....I'm tellin' ya. You'll be surprised....

 

[LPClassic]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

Ok, I am getting different info here. I have 2 folks saying the P-90's wont growl as well as PG's, and another person saying Pg's won't growl as well as PROS with a tube screamer.

What shall it be?

P-90
PG's
Pros, seth lovers, ANTS with a tube screamer?

I have decided that I can't take a PG in the bridge for the treble of it.

:eyecrazy:

 

[Micah]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

Ok, I am getting different info here. I have 2 folks saying the P-90's wont growl as well as PG's, and another person saying Pg's won't growl as well as PROS with a tube screamer.

What shall it be?

P-90
PG's
Pros, seth lovers, ANTS with a tube screamer?

I have decided that I can't take a PG in the bridge for the treble of it.

:eyecrazy:

IMO-None of these other pickups compete in the same league as the P90 when were talking about growl.

I know its a big leap to spend your hard earned money on a set of fat single coils. Afterall, some think of single coils as weak pickups; beautiful clean but the trade off is in gain. I was stuck in this cycle for many years trying to get this sound in my head out of a humbucker. TONS of Growl, Crunchy mids-pure Rock and Roll and a nice tight, jangly clean. I never even considered P90's because I had it stuck in my head that single coild and crunchy rock and roll didnt mix. I am now a believer!

Do yourself a favor and go out to You Tube and look up P90 or Phat Cat or P94. Listen to them and see what Im talking about. Or better yet, go down to the local music store if you can and pickup a guitar with P90's in it. I mean to tell you that I think you will have found everything you are looking for and more. Hot, crunchy rock and roll. Do yourself a favor and check them out- you wont be dissapointed.

 

[The Usual]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

Good advice. You gotta search youtube or hear first hand. A believe A2Ps have the potential to growl more than others, just because they are more spongy than other A2 buckers, and if you run that into the right gain/eq you can get there.

P-90s are an obvious choice for growl as well. Phat cats, I'm not too sure of. I have heard 1 set in a LP that did not have any potential for growl at all, yet that same set in an SG sure did. Wood is a key thing here also. P94s are a very different kind of vibe. Search up a band called Big Sugar and Gordie Johnson (Singer, guitarist). Or go to his new bands site Grady. He uses P94s, and no one growls like him. His rig has a lot to do with it, but those pups definately have that vibe.

 

[Micah]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

The AIIPros are a pretty warm(but bright) scooped mid-range sounding pickup. For "growl" what your hearing is a breaking up mid-range. It all starts with the pickup/guitar. With my setup, I believe I could plug into about any amp and get the growl I want with my Les Paul Special Double Cutaway with Stock Gibson P90's and have absolute GROWL CITY (although I prefer my cranked AC-30). I believe the tone your talking about it more pickup than anything. Now, dont get me wrong, there are amps, speakers, cabinets etc... That accentuate that mid-range more, thus making it more aparent, but the tone really has to start @ the guitar and be picked up by the pickup to start that effect. You'll have no problems getting that mid-range frequenct to come out of a Les Paul-what your missing is that sound being picked up by the microphone (pickup) in the guitar. The P90 happens to hear those frequencies better than a vintage flavored humbucker (which likes to hear more of the highs and lows particularly). The P90 does almost the opposite, but because it doesnt cancel freuencies out that come across as "hum" when you stop playing, it caries through a crunchier, chimier tone that holds up under gain and doesnt mush out. Because it doesnt mush out it breaks up. To your ear this comes across to your ear as what we call "Growl".

Now, you can get growl out of a vintage humbucker, but it requires tweeking on the part of the amp to bring the midrange out and the bass down (of course finding the right balance). Where as the P90's want to do this naturally.

This is the best You Tube video Ive found of the Phat Cats in a Les Paul. Absolute tone to die for!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U44pf7j1EE0

What else could you want??

 

[LPClassic]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

I listened to the p-90's, really like the growl, but they do have a 1950's old school flavor to them without much ability to get away from that feel. I may want to go to alnico 2 humbuckers to have more variability. If I had 2 guitars I would DEFINITELY get the P-90's, then have another guitar for variation, but right now I should probably get variability do I can gig and make enough for the 2nd guitar!!

With that said, the toss up is between these:

Alnico Pro (which The Usual feels have a more adult growl)

Seth Lovers

Anitquities

PG's (with something else in the bridge)

Of these, only the PG's and Alnico Pros are potted if this makes a difference

 

[muttznmongrelz]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

IMHO...my personal favorites...but you have to find them on eBay pretty much...

Gibson/Bill Lawrence "The Original" HB-R & HB-L Pickups that I have. Bill designed them when he worked for Gibson in the late 80s...circuit board on back and a rather unusual pickup that is described as a cross between a Gibson PAF but w/the bottom end and drive of a XL500...and I think they're just about the best humbuckers Gibson made.


*** Gibson "The Original" HB-R & HB-L Info...

My all time favorite pickups!!! They've sold for $200.00-299.99 in price recently on eBay.

Bill Lawrence Designed for Gibson and only available in 1988/1989 Gibsons. If you don't know about these...here's some links...under Harmony Central Electric Pickup Reviews and in the Gibson Forum Pickup Section...

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/r...inal+HB-R/10/1

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/r...inal+HB-L/10/1

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/r...bson/HB-L/10/1

Gibson Forum...

http://forums.gibson.com/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=2016

 

[Thunder]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

1-25 Watt Greenbacks

2-Pearly Gates

 

[LPClassic]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

On those speakers I guess you mean G12M's not g12H's??? Or would either do?

I like the pearly gates neck but bridge is thin and twangy, right?

 

[blueman335]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

Afterall, some think of single coils as weak pickups; beautiful clean but the trade off is in gain. I was stuck in this cycle for many years trying to get this sound in my head out of a humbucker. TONS of Growl, Crunchy mids-pure Rock and Roll.

+1. P-90's have something special in their tone. And as far as people thinking they're "weak", remember, they have two magnets per coil, whereas HB's have a 1/2 magnet per coil. That's 4 times the magnet force. Nothing puny about P-90's & Phat Cats.

 

[blueman335]

Re: A GROWLY Sound for a Les Paul

I listened to the p-90's, really like the growl, but they do have a 1950's old school flavor to them without much ability to get away from that feel.

Well, I don't like A2 HB's, because of the lack of growl. I think the output is too low, the top end too rounded, and the bottom too loose. Too compressed a sound for me. But P-90/Phat Cat's cure that. And you have a far wider tonal range to choose from with twin magnets. What's your Plan B if the A2 HB you select doesn't match the tone of your wood like you thought it would? Keep buying HB's until you stumble on to one you like?