A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

Pink Unicorn Horsey

Megä Pöny Rÿdr
I had what I consider to be a personally embarrassing experience just yesterday, and I want to relate it to y'all to get other perspectives and thoughts.

(NOTE: My particular situation deals with tweed amps, but the quandry relates to any amp, guitar or other piece of gear. Tune in.)

I'm starting to look into getting myself a tweed amp, because I love the tone of those amps so much -- so I think, based on my limited experience with them. So I decided to go to a local boutique shop with my Tele and try out a couple amps they had in stock: a Victoria Amps 20112 and what looked like a vintage tweed Fender Deluxe. This was great, because I wanted to do an apples-to-apples comparison and see if the Victoria amp held up to the real deal (i.e., the vintage Fender).

After playing through the Vic, the salesman hooks me up to the Fender. Two minutes into it, he walks by me and says, "Big difference, huh? They're like night and day. No comparison." I need to spend more time with both amps, so I bring 'em into their soundproof room and start doing a real A/B comparison. I don't have much time, so I only get to spend five or so minutes with each one. However, in that amount of time, I'm thinking to myself, "Yeah, the Fender sound a lot better. More crunch, fuller tone, etc." Then, as I'm unplugging the amps, I look at the Fender to figure out just what it is, and I see this brand-new metal plate with "Blues Junior" stamped on it. The amp itself looks like it's something straight from the sixties, so I'm a little confused now.

Not wanting to look like a fool, I ask the salesman on the way out, "How much are those two amps, by the way?" He tells me the Victoria is $1,500 and the "relic'd Blues Junior" is $500. Now I feel like a total loser because I liked the tone of the Blues Junior better than the Victoria. Maybe I'd like the Vic more if I had a chance to really get to know each of the amps -- I liked the Vic a lot -- but I came away feeling like I've got bad taste. Now I'm all down on myself about it. I think any other guitarist should be able to pick the Victoria over the Blues Junior in a Pepsi challenge. :(

Thoughts?

- Keith
 
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Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

Tone is subjective. You shouldn't "feel bad" that you thought the Blues Junior was a better amp. I've got one (not relic'd though, I still kick myself for not grabbing one) and I love it. If you can get the tone you want for $500 and not $1500, what do you think you should do?
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

consider yourself lucky. You don't have to deal with the boutique mumbo jumbo :D. In my opinion, boutique amps do sound very good and usually better than some production amps, but a $2000 better? no $1500 better? no $1000 better? still no, at least not to my ears. And thats the key, its all about what your ears like. Its all your own taste. When your talking about tube amps, unless its a very cheap junky tube amp, its probably going to sound good, and how much you like it just depends on your own taste
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

I don't care if other folks enjoy eating caviar. It IS disgusting, and I'll ALWAYS find it disgusting.

YOU liked it better? Cool then. If it's giving you that sound you have in your head, or if it's cose to it at least, why not settle on it? :)
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

No man, that's GOOD! The people who have to spend $1,500 to convince themselves they're getting a good amp are the ones who should be embarrassed.

PS: The Blues Junior is one of the best small combos you can buy IMO.
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

$$$ don't always equal tone. The only thing that matters is your ears.
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

No worries, it's not humbling so much as realistic.

I made a comment in a thread just the other day about my Relic'd Blues Junior saying paraphrase, "My relic'd Blues Junior used to get me a lot of compliments on my tone - which should answer all the BS people give you on HC about "oh, so many people complimented my tone blah blah blah."

I can't tell you how many people think those are vintage amps. The Jensen makes a huge difference.

Regarding the Victoria I can tell you something I say time and time again - A MUSICIAN RARELY KNOWS HIS/HER OWN TONE. It's like hearing youself on an answering machine - you say, that's what I sound like? Take those amps into a room and crank them and you might be shocked. A lot of boutique amps have speakers that need to be broken in. Also, it's easy to let feel, and labels, your eyes, etc to get in the way of judging an amp for it's tone. I played a Victoria Bassman against a REAL 59 Bassman, and I was shocked that it rivaled it quite well to say the least.

The first time I played a Bogner I thought it was overhyped compared to a regular Marshall. Same thing with Matchless. After really hearing them in a mix, I was blown away. I used to prefer Ibanez Super 58s to Duncan 59s and APH1s until I recorded with them and noticed a huge difference. Moreover, the trained ears of certain producers and friends of mine really pointed out the difference. So I wouldn't say it was humbling on your part. $4000 amps don't always make sense right then and there. The daunting price makes us scrutinize them too much. For $4k I expect that amp to write the songs for me AND front my band...lol
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

OlinMusic said:
For $4k I expect that amp to write the songs for me AND front my band...lol

True that! lol

But still, very nice insightful post, thanks! So I guess I will be saving up for a Matchless eventually lol....
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

As a player, enthusiast and listener, there's merits to both.

That said, the Blues Junior is a hell of an amp.
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

No one has pointed out that these are two completely different amps. The BJ uses EL84 tubes and has a reverb circuit. The Vicky uses 6V6 power tubes. The only thing in common is tweed, size and some black chicken head knobs. :)

Your ears might just prefer the EL84's over 6V6's.

The Vicky is pricey, but the resale on them is fairly good (glut of them on ebay last week though).
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

next time you go in, ask him (or someone with decent enough chops to put the amps thru their paces) to play thru both, with your guitar if possible .. step back and listen from a good 6'-10' ft or more ... have him talk you through the subtlties he is hearing and see if you a) can hear them, b) agree with them, and c) prefer one to the other

scott_f is right ... that guy was selling with his eyes, not his (or your) ears ...
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

tone4days said:
scott_f is right ... that guy was selling with his eyes, not his (or your) ears ...

Meh....he might of not been selling.

Were creatures that when something sounds good we jump on it. When we aren't sure what the origin is we get the chance to really get down to what were looking for. By going blind we remove alot of the bias' and half-truths and others perceptions, whether true ot not, the we know about amps and tone.

Getting the Jones for a vintage-style amp is a trendy thing. But there are alot of players out there playing Blues using some pretty modern-sounding amps. Designs have evolved and tastes have changed. To say one is better than the other is a half-truth; it's what sounds better to the player and what gets them excited to sit down and play and crank up and puts a smile on their faces.

Maybe the Victoria just wasn't the amp the listener was looking for.
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

Just because an amp is expensive doesn't mean it's better for you. Ain't nothin' wrong with the Blues Jr. Well, it sounds a little more boxy to my ear than larger combos like the Deluxe but it's a good amp.

I have no problem including my HRDx in the harem along with a Two Rock, Rivera, and Peters. If it sounds good and is adequately reliable, it is good.
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

Blues Jr floats a lot of guys' boat. Nothing wrong with that. I think the point is that KGM went in there looking to compare some tweed tones. What he accidently did was compare a tweed amp with a non-tweed amp, preferring the non-tweed amp. Nothing wrong with that.

KGM was kinda beating himself up for liking the less expensive amp, but that's not being fair to himself. If they were both similar 20 watt tweed amps, you'd then have a valid comparison. These two amps are way differnet from each other.

If you set me down with a Two Rock Custom Reverb and a Vox AC15CC and I play through them, I might be naturally drawn to the Vox tones. I then walk out of there going, "WTF Mate? What's wrong with me?" Nothing is wrong, I just like chocolate more than I like vanilla!

It is a hella valuable lesson for all of us though... This was true blind testing with those sneaky folks from fender putting that little BJ in tweed's clothing! :)
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

Boutique amps, generally, are an old standard amp that sounded amazing (Think the Marshall Plexi), rebuilding it under another name (to avoid lawsuits, and because the original company, eg Marshall, doesn't quite build them like they used to),

addressing all the old issues (I believe I rememember someone saying Matchless was started when Vox's quality started going down and they were unreliable and Matchless was originally a correction of the AC30, which they still sell.. correct me if im wrong)

And adding something.. maybe better circuitry, a reverb circuit, something to make the clean better, or make it have tighter crunch or more distortion.

As far as I know, Boutiqe amps like the Soldano SLO-100 are basically Marshall Plexis with a few extra gain stages, multiple channels, master volume, and more reliable stuff in it.

They also cost a hell of alot more than the original.

Though, again, correct me if im wrong, I only know what I may have been horribly misinformed by a small amount of people.
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

Hey, everyone likes a good cheeseburger every now & then....even over a steak :wink:

I love the tone of my Fuchs 6V6...but I also love EL84s,

Different strokes for different folks....nothing to be be ashamed or embarrassed about. :beerchug:
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

KGMESSIER said:
I had what I consider to be a personally embarrassing experience "relic'd Blues Junior"
:smack:

Ouch - There is no such thing as a "Relic Blues Junior".

That saleperson was BS'ing you big time.

You were a sucker for that saleline.

Take your money elsewhere and buy that Fender Blues Jr for much less.
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

i LOVE the tone i get out of my Jr!!! for the money and considering all that it is, it's a pretty freakin sweet amp for the $$$'s for sure!!! my complaints with it are few really...i mean i do understand the "boxey" sound that you get sometimes and the reverb isn't very good at all, but i wonder how much better it could be with a new speaker and a couple of choice mods!?

you've recieved alot of good advice about the tone comparison you did!!! realize that this was a bit of apples vs oranges and try comparing them again from a distance like T4D suggested!
 
Re: A Humbling Experience w/ Amps

Stratman said:
:smack:

Ouch - There is no such thing as a "Relic Blues Junior".

That saleperson was BS'ing you big time.

You were a sucker for that saleline.

Take your money elsewhere and buy that Fender Blues Jr for much less.

I do believe they made a short run of reliced Blues Jrs for GC a few years ago and they had a Jensen speaker if IIRC.
 
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