About Vintage Amps

[Osensei]

I dunno! But there has always been a couple of amps that I saw people use back in the day that I just don't seem to get!

The first was the Fender Bassman. I've seen many a guitar player of old jamming on these creations! The thing that I never understood was why the name seemed to imply that it was a bass amp. I always got the feeling that if someone actually played as bass through it then it would rattle and crackle like hell!

The other thing was that it is probably at the top of the list when it comes to amps that were devoid of features. It didn't have any type of gain features as it probably predates amp with such features. If you drove it hard you could probably get it to breakup a little bit, but not nearly enough for a classic rock sound. Did guys back in those days rely mostly on pedals when playing through amps of this sort. It just looks like it was an amp that was meant to be played clean unless you had pedals and such.

The second and similar type was the Fender Twin or Twin Reverb. Hey! At least this one had a reverb tank! But that was about it! Once again it seem to exhibit the same characteristics as the Bassman!

So what was/is the mystique about these amps. What's the best way to use them if versatility is the goal?

 

[firebirdVII]

Re: About Vintage Amps

I dunno! But there has always been a couple of amps that I saw people use back in the day that I just don't seem to get!

The first was the Fender Bassman. I've seen many a guitar player of old jamming on these creations! The thing that I never understood was why the name seemed to imply that it was a bass amp. I always got the feeling that if someone actually played as bass through it then it would rattle and crackle like hell!

The other thing was that it is probably at the top of the list when it comes to amps that were devoid of features. It didn't have any type of gain features as it probably predates amp with such features. If you drove it hard you could probably get it to breakup a little bit, but not nearly enough for a classic rock sound. Did guys back in those days rely mostly on pedals when playing through amps of this sort. It just looks like it was an amp that was meant to be played clean unless you had pedals and such.

The second and similar type was the Fender Twin or Twin Reverb. Hey! At least this one had a reverb tank! But that was about it! Once again it seem to exhibit the same characteristics as the Bassman!

So what was/is the mystique about these amps. What's the best way to use them if versatility is the goal?

The bassman was a bass amp and it gets a lot of distortion if you crank it. I believe that Duane Allman used to play one (before he played Marshalls). The first Marshalls were pretty much copies of bassmans (they made a few changes, but the circuits of the classics were still similar, I believe). Low power twins could distort if you cranked them, I would be tempted to say high power ones would too, but I don't know. Blackface amps had more headroom than tweed which is what the original amps were meant for. People originally wanted them clean, but that changed in a short period of time.

 

[bungalowbill]

Re: About Vintage Amps

The Bassman was indeed, a bass amp. Guitarists in the early 60's found that this model had a nice thick tone perfect for blues and rock n roll. Jim Marshall even copied the cicuit for his first Marshall amp.

The Twin Reverb was the evolution of the Twin amp, it had 2-12 inch speakers and a larger power amp section of 4-6L6's for a cleaner tone and what some believe to be the best onboard reverb of any amp ever. It became the industry standard for clean tube tone and was good for many styles of music.

Players back in the day would crank the amps and play Gibson guitars because of their hotter pickups to push these amps into overdrive. Most folks are still trying to cop the tone of these old Fenders with master volumes and OD units (myself included), but there is nothing that sounds like a cranked non master volume tube amp.

 

[Osensei]

Re: About Vintage Amps

Wow! Good to know! I can't wait to learn some more amp history! Thanks alot guyz!

I grew up when cats were playing these but, like most kids, I couldn't afford the good stuff.:yell:

 

[idsnowdog]

Re: About Vintage Amps

Distortion was a byproduct in the early days. Until 1966 everyone building amps and guitars were trying to do away with it. The jaguar and jazzmaster were designed not to distort. The fender twin was designed to be a clean performance amp. A lot of equipment industry people felt their designs were imperfect because they distorted and in a misguided effort spent a considerable amount of time redesigning their equipment to reduce distortion. A lot of engineers thought solid state was a blessing since amps could be produced cheaper, lighter, smaller and with less distortion.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: About Vintage Amps

Originally guitars and guitar amps were based on the idea of guitar as a rhythm instrument that topped out at 15- 20 watts.

Fender & Gibson were the main suppliers of instruments - but Gibson was aggresive about the jazz market overall, as their designs suggest. Fender amps were highly popular, moreover as a complement to the Fender guitar design which kept surf and country players in the fold.

As guys like **** Dale wanted sheer power and volume, groups like the Ventures and Shadows started bringing lead guitar into the fold as the 60s came in, and slowly progressed to psychedelia. Originally Fender gave up on amps like the Twin as it was too powerful and big for most players. Meanwhile, in the south and midwest, blues players were cranking their amps more to get a cutting lead sound and get distortion. Since the Bassman was 45w, and much more available to guitar players than the Twin, well they cranked Bassman amps and got that cutting tone and gain. voila - rock and modern blues is BORN!

Bands in the 60s started going for volume, and as you listen to the Beatles, who popularized the Vox AC30 sound, the progression went to louder versions of that tone as Jim Marshall got into amps. As someone said, MArshall started by using the Bassman chassis as is main building block - and as Clapton started using that cranked sound, everyone wanted it.

When the club scene got raunchier, fuzz pedals and loud cranked amps were the in thing, and cranking a 100w Marshall became a signature sound for London with groups like Jeff Beck Group, Humble Pie, etc. Americans caught on quick a la the Allman Bros etc. and well to this day there is an open quality to a cranked NON-master volume amp that cannot be replaced.

As Mesa Boogie came out with the 100w Mark I series in the 70s, high gain, saturated tones took over, but many players still mix the cranked open tone of a Marshall or Fender with high gain tones of today (just ask Steve Stevens of Billy Idol).

 

[The Golden Boy]

Re: About Vintage Amps

The other thing was that it is probably at the top of the list when it comes to amps that were devoid of features. It didn't have any type of gain features as it probably predates amp with such features. If you drove it hard you could probably get it to breakup a little bit, but not nearly enough for a classic rock sound. Did guys back in those days rely mostly on pedals when playing through amps of this sort. It just looks like it was an amp that was meant to be played clean unless you had pedals and such.

The second and similar type was the Fender Twin or Twin Reverb. Hey! At least this one had a reverb tank! But that was about it! Once again it seem to exhibit the same characteristics as the Bassman!

I've had a couple of old Bassmans (Bassmen?) and they do the "rock" thing pretty good. My problem with them was that they were either really loud, without an attenuator- not as controllable as a master volume amp. The other thing was, even with an attenuator, they went from clean to compressed. I never found that happy in-between area for them.

The Twin is an amp I don't particularly dig. It's not meant to distort. As has been mentioned it's meant NOT to distort. Keep in mind, it's not the same thing as a Bassman- it's nearly twice the power, and MUCH more clean headroom.

 

[OlinMusic]

Re: About Vintage Amps

hahaha I just realized the forum CENSORED me from using the NAME "D-I-C-K" as in Mr. DALE - the great surf rock player!

That is really funny!

Richard's of the world need to start a protest!

 

[ES350]

Re: About Vintage Amps

Play a tweed Bandmaster on 7 with a LP and you'll have all the distortion you could ever want...as far as I'm concerned, the idea is not versatility, it's getting one fantastic sound and working with that (nobody asks a sax player for 'different sounds').

 

[Curly]

Re: About Vintage Amps

as far as I'm concerned, the idea is not versatility, it's getting one fantastic sound and working with that

I agree.
although I have nothing against versatility, I'm always glad when players try a tweed style amp and find that they love the feel, and realize they can have a lot to work with using one amp and maybe a pedal or two.

 

[Osensei]

Re: About Vintage Amps

What ever sound I get, I look for my amp to produce it! I'm not a pedal/effects guy. Even if I play rock/fusion, I expect my amp to do the work. Reverb and chorus that's it! I only use reverb by the way! I hate chorus!

 

[gripweed]

Re: About Vintage Amps

The Twins were *loud*. You didn't have a lot of problem cutting through with a Twin. When players needed distortion, you got it from a pedal (at least in the 70's and 80's).

 

[JacksonMIA]

Re: About Vintage Amps

Wow! Some great write-ups, guys!

Richard's of the world need to start a protest!

I'm trying, but there's not enough of us on here.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: About Vintage Amps

Back when the Tweed Bassman came out it had more features than many guitar amps. It had a full tone stack and 2 channels.

The other guys covered the other history tidbits pretty well.

Luke

 

[Bludave]

Re: About Vintage Amps

A lot of really good points here. One that I was always facinated with is the Early BF amps were made with 2 channels One for the guitar and one for a Microphone. Back in those days it was rare to use a PA system. The "dry" channel was for the guitar the Reverb channel for vocals.