All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

I think Marceau and I will be recording some sound comparisons between a standard JB and the 35th so you can decide for yourselves. Expect that in the next couple weeks.

Any chance you can do the Antiquity model as well, as long as you've got the gear set up? :D
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Any chance you can do the Antiquity model as well, as long as you've got the gear set up? :D

Will check for you, I believe he was having 3 created so I would assume the Antiquity will also be in there.
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Will check for you, I believe he was having 3 created so I would assume the Antiquity will also be in there.

YYAAAAAAAYYYY!!!!

tumblr_mbrjn0UfSt1ri41obo1_500.gif


Awesome! Looking forward to it!
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

My reactions exactly, Kermit! This will be really cool to see/hear.
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

For what it is worth, I have two neck Alnico II Pro pickups, one in a maple/alder B.C. Rich, one in a mohogany Washburn. The two pickups were produced ~20 years apart. One is four conductor, one is two conductor. They sound different.

The SD site lists the resistance as 7.6k. My older Alnico II pro measures at 7.8k.

Really, between the woods, the age, the slight change in resistance, the two pickups still sound like Alnico II pro, but the older one sounds warmer. I really cannot say if it is JUST due to the mohogany or if the age plays a part too as the older pickup was moved from the B.C.R guitar to the Washburn.
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

it's all snakeoil so the little sheep will buy them, thinking it will sound like it did way back when :)
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

it's all snakeoil so the little sheep will buy them, thinking it will sound like it did way back when :)

Since we're all in a papal mood today,

obvious-troll-is-obvious_129158.jpg
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

For what it is worth, I have two neck Alnico II Pro pickups, one in a maple/alder B.C. Rich, one in a mohogany Washburn. The two pickups were produced ~20 years apart. One is four conductor, one is two conductor. They sound different.

The SD site lists the resistance as 7.6k. My older Alnico II pro measures at 7.8k.

Really, between the woods, the age, the slight change in resistance, the two pickups still sound like Alnico II pro, but the older one sounds warmer. I really cannot say if it is JUST due to the mohogany or if the age plays a part too as the older pickup was moved from the B.C.R guitar to the Washburn.

In my alnico 2 pro collection i got 12 pre 87 and 4 pre 88.
These are all over the place when it comes to resistance .
From 7.0k aphn to 7.77k @20Celsius
Aphb from 7.6 to 8.5k. @20Celsius

If you like SCOM 7.1k is the way to go.

Btw mid 90s to now they measure dead on 7.25k/8.1k @20Celsius
Tested dossen new sets.

Not sure why they claim 7.6/7.85k when modern production is not close to this.
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

So I talked to MJ yesterday and let her examine my old JB. It ends up that there is yet another difference. She said that my JB also has NYLON bobbins. If you think that bobbins can affect tone, there's another difference, if not...meh whatever. That said that means SD has used 3 bobbin materials: butyrate, Nylon, and Polycarbonate.

Also she beamed with pride that someone was still happy to have her old handiwork. She said the pickup was from the very early 80's since it said "the JB model".

So I bump the thread because it has info about my pickup's components, but also because the Zephyr thread reminded me that we are waiting on clips from Scott on the Antiquity JB, 35th Anniversary JB, and a Modern JB.
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

So I talked to MJ yesterday and let her examine my old JB. It ends up that there is yet another difference. She said that my JB also has NYLON bobbins. If you think that bobbins can affect tone, there's another difference, if not...meh whatever. That said that means SD has used 3 bobbin materials: butyrate, Nylon, and Polycarbonate.

Also she beamed with pride that someone was still happy to have her old handiwork. She said the pickup was from the very early 80's since it said "the JB model".

So I bump the thread because it has info about my pickup's components, but also because the Zephyr thread reminded me that we are waiting on clips from Scott on the Antiquity JB, 35th Anniversary JB, and a Modern JB.

Huh!! That's very very interesting. IDK if non-ferrous bobbins directly would affect the tone but they might affect some resonant frequency properties of the entire pickup structure on their own, which would in turn affect how the coils recacted under high SPLs, which would theoretically change the tone. Maybe. But a difference is a difference and lots of small changes can add up to a noticeable one.

Very cool info, thanks!
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Hey guys, haven't forgotten about this - just been on the back burner until they was a slow enough time to do some recording. If it still gets pushed out, maybe zenmindbeginner can take a crack at it, or a future SDUGF giveaway.

I'm as interested as you to listen to the 35th and JB back to back.
 
All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Also she beamed with pride that someone was still happy to have her old handiwork. She said the pickup was from the very early 80's since it said "the JB model".

That's cool. When I first saw her on Fri, I pulled out 3 TB4Js and 1 TB10J for her to sign and she did seem to pep right up. And wasn't it hard to get much of a conversation going with her when so many people were coming up to get a peek at her glasses. lol! Alright....let the debate on the JB continue.




Sent from my armored space station using Tapatalk on iPad
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

I will take all the JB pups you guys do not like. I love em!!!
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

I will take all the JB pups you guys do not like. I love em!!!

How about this, you can have my share of the new standard production ones. Sound fair?
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

I could totally do a comparison between a current JB, 20+ year old JB and the 35th Anniversary... add an Antiquity and Concept in there and you'd have the entire JB family.

It would definitely be interesting and a lesson in hair splitting for sure. ; )
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

I suppose it's all about what constitutes a change. I've said things as a Seymour Duncan VP of Product Development that I can sleep well on, and they are all searchable on the net. It's true, however, that I'll only speak in generalities at this point. I think if someone (either from the company or outside the company) said that the wind of the JB has never changed, it would be accurate. Again that's all stuff that can be searched in today's technology age. I see a lot of guys start talking about how their JB reads "hot" or "cool" and their assumption is based on the DC resistance. But companies have a range of tolerance for DCR.

So say a company (any company) posts a DC spec of 18k and you find an old pickup that reads 16k or 20k, it doesn't necessarily mean the company changed its recipe. There are so many variables that you'd never be able to know about from that. A winder could have the tension too high or low. A batch of wire could be a little thick or a little thin. A flat-out mistake could have been made, choosing the wrong wire off the shelf. Whether a company catches these things or lets the product through is up to the particular company, who's in charge at any given time, etc. None of these things should be considered a change at face value. A change would be more like if someone changed the winding spec up or down, or the pitch, etc.

I've never worked for Dimarzio, but I can say that I have seen first hand and owned various Dimarzios where the magnet size was very different. I've seen same model Ceramic pickup with a smaller magnet and a metal strip to connect to the poles, and others with a magnet that is rightly sized. I've seen and own same model Alnico V pickups where the magnet was extra tall, and others where it was standard height. I've seen readings from Rich at IbanezRules across multiple Jems (which had stock PAF Pros) and aftermarket PAF Pros that ranged from low 8k all the way up to 11k. I can't confirm that first-hand, but that's a huge range to report. I only state these things as facts, not to be negative, just to give an overview. In fact, Dimarzio has a pickup called the PAF that has been changed completely a few years back to include a lot of their new technology. They explicitly disclosed all of this, but they just left the model numbers the same, so you'd have to know what year yours was made to really know what you had.

So personally I wouldn't suggest any company changed a winding spec unless I personally sat there and hand-unwound some coils. Personally sent off metals for analysis, etc. So now we come to something like rough-cast magnets. As you guys can search and infer from posts I and others have already made throughout the years, rough cast are less consistent than ground magnets. The dimensions of ground magnets are extremely tight. So as a manufacturer, would you consider that an improvement? I might, if it was the 1980's and I was trying to build a company on quality and consistency, where other companies (like the big two guitar companies) were starting to make product that was all over the map. If you had a plastic that was too soft for bullet-proof wax potting, would you upgrade to one that could take the heat? If you weren't making a P.A.F. replica, and you could substitute a plastic spacer for the maple one, you'd get more consistency (no expansion and contraction with sweat or temp changes) would you choose the more consistent and much cheaper one?

What's missing from the 1980's to today is that no one would care about these things in the 1980's. They would probably care if their pickup became deformed from the heat of a car trunk, scratched easily, squealed, or worse, if you bought 5 more from the same batch and they were not consistent. So if I were building a pickup company in the 1980's I would probably value all of these things. Furthermore, there was not a huge internet forum community parsing all of these little idiosyncracies. Making a small manufacturing improvement didn't mean you "changed" anything because it fell so far under the radar. Now we have boutique pedals and amps, $200 cables, and we're sitting in our little home studios with our ears smashed against the speaker to hear the slightest differences between two gnat farts.

So now we get to the subject of misinformation, etc. and I believe reasonable people can agree that there are a lot of semantics involved:
"Are those the same pants you had on yesterday?"
"Yes, but they've been washed"
"Then no they're not, with each wash they've been altered"

As for taking every post with a grain of salt, that's a good idea always. But here's my advice, if you find one of my old posts, and it seems like its saying something different than someone else's post, I'd bet on mine... ;)

Whether there is an improvement or not, or whether today's JB is more durable, consistent, sounds better, etc. is irrelevant. The point is, there have been changes in the manufacturing process and the final product (for better or for worse), but SD insists on 'everything has always been the same'.

The company should have clearly stated the improvements made and the different specs, hence making it obvious to the customers that the new JBs (although may be better) are not the same as the old JBs.

Both 1987 and 2012 Corollas or any other car brand are called Corolla but everybody knows they are light years apart due to the improvements made during the 25 years because the manufacturer makes this clear to the customers (aside from the visual difference).

And I don't think it is ethical to bring Dimarzio up even for comparison purpose, as it's SD's direct competitor.
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Whether there is an improvement or not, or whether today's JB is more durable, consistent, sounds better, etc. is irrelevant. The point is, there have been changes in the manufacturing process and the final product (for better or for worse), but SD insists on 'everything has always been the same'.

The company should have clearly stated the improvements made and the different specs, hence making it obvious to the customers that the new JBs (although may be better) are not the same as the old JBs.

Both 1987 and 2012 Corollas or any other car brand are called Corolla but everybody knows they are light years apart due to the improvements made during the 25 years because the manufacturer makes this clear to the customers (aside from the visual difference).

And I don't think it is ethical to bring Dimarzio up even for comparison purpose, as it's SD's direct competitor.

Stop being a d-bag.

It's not their "duty" to tell you anything. The entire SD company has been exceptionally open about their products and always courteous to everyone's concerns.

Ethical? What isn't ethical is demanding a company simply give out every one of its trade secrets/intellectual property.

In a normal group situation, this would be a "meeting of the minds" amongst collectors who pick apart the inconsistencies and come to their own conclusions about current models vs. models in the past. Unfortunately, here, we've become so used to SD giving us our way that we now get people demanding that the company justify themselves over and over again while some call them liars and others insinuate that they are somehow trying to deceive the public.

Show some d**n respect...

We wouldn't have these forums if it weren't for them.

Sheesh. Some people
 
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All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

I could totally do a comparison between a current JB, 20+ year old JB and the 35th Anniversary... add an Antiquity and Concept in there and you'd have the entire JB family.

It would definitely be interesting and a lesson in hair splitting for sure. ; )

I think that using an actual older JB is an excellent idea. Better yet, several older production line JB models from different eras. And then factor in the anniversary and the antiquity as well.


Sent from my armored space station using Tapatalk on iPad
 
Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

Re: All JBs are NOT created equal, Why Has SD Insisted They Are? <Old JB Photos>

. Now we have boutique pedals and amps, $200 cables, and we're sitting in our little home studios with our ears smashed against the speaker to hear the slightest differences between two gnat farts.

My favorite for riduculous so far is MXR!
there are at least 4 versions of the script phase 90!:bigeyes:
talk about a money maker
 
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