Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

NecroPolo said:
I used them back in time when they were called Alien Connections, before ReValver was sold for Peavey or something. Very good call, one of the best software modellers in my opinion.
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Thats mainly for recording to your computer I guess? does it also have realistic distortion and reverb effects or should I use them by the end of my effect loops only for amp modeling and recording?

Or let me put other way, if I invest on such a software what kind of external pedals should I still need to buy?
 
Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

I really love how upset people got over my sincere attempt to save a guy money and improve his tone.
 
Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

Icarusfire said:
Thats mainly for recording to your computer I guess? does it also have realistic distortion and reverb effects or should I use them by the end of my effect loops only for amp modeling and recording?

Or let me put other way, if I invest on such a software what kind of external pedals should I still need to buy?
Click to expand...

You won't need any other pedals. You have complete control of the chain, AND it hosts 3rd party VST plugins, so if you don't like the included effects, you can insert whatever you want. All you need is a good HI-Z input to plug the guitar into the computer. Some interfaces have them, and most cheap mic preamps do as well.
 
Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

dominus said:
You won't need any other pedals. You have complete control of the chain, AND it hosts 3rd party VST plugins, so if you don't like the included effects, you can insert whatever you want. All you need is a good HI-Z input to plug the guitar into the computer. Some interfaces have them, and most cheap mic preamps do as well.
Click to expand...

I listened some demos of it. While solos on high strings sounds good, I didn't hear any good sounding dirty, chunky, heavy, palm mutings on low strings, they were digital and puffy. (I can get more real tones in micro br 80 in that area)

is this something not demonstrared in the demos but can be achived by tweaking the software? they claim "close is not enough, we give you lifelike amp tone"
 
Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

Icarusfire said:
Thats mainly for recording to your computer I guess? does it also have realistic distortion and reverb effects or should I use them by the end of my effect loops only for amp modeling and recording?

Or let me put other way, if I invest on such a software what kind of external pedals should I still need to buy?
Click to expand...


I created only one little ReVaver-only demo track. I was just curious of how far I can go with it alone so there is no audio post processing. Note that it used some of the early versions of ReValver, V1.something I guess, the Peavey version is much more advanced.



If you have time to tweak it, I think you may skip adding external gear. As dominus says, you can put some nice delays, reverbs, whatever VST to improve the sound. There are a lot of usable free plug-ins, take a look:

Stillwell

Melda

Voxengo

Reaplugs

Besides improving your sound, they give you an insight of audio processing. Some of these can seriously tickle the moustache of big guns like Waves, UAD or SSL.



Back to Revalver, back in time I was in a situation like you, lived in one room with neighbours. No place for anyting louder than a sneeze. I used a PC with Sonar DAW, an Echo Audio PCI soundcard and a tiny M-Audio Studio Buddy microphone preamplifier. I plugged the preamp out of my guitar gear (a Korg G1 or a Marshall SL-X direct out) into the Studio Buddy, reorded that signal and used the power amp and cab simulation of the ReValver. Its included preamps are quite good I think but I never had the patience to tweak them as I had the Marshall and the Korg with instantly usable sounds. When I record tracks for myself (fast and unpatient), I still use a similar way, with the difference that I use the cab simulator out of one of my AMT preamps that give instantly usable sounds.



You have the BOSS now and it's power is compact size and reliability. If you carry your stuff a lot, it is a great tool. But if you keep most of your music recording at home / in the bedroom, I'd suggest using one of the common DAW softwares with an audio interface like this one:

M-Audio Fast Track

For software there are lots of options, from the freebie Audacity to the big-bulls ProTools. For starting, Audacity is okay, it is absolutely capable of creating demos. Anyway, I'd suggest Reaper or Sonar because they have much more powerful song creating and editing features. These go with a longer learning curve as well but don't be afraid, you'll benefit from all of that in the long run.

As for a a serious mind opener / cracker, check SunVox. It is vastly different experience from anything :)
 
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Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

If the modelling device requires effects help via external pedals etc., then its really not doing its intended job. In which case, take it back and purchase one that will, though I suspect its as was suggested in an earlier post that you just need to familiarize yourself more with the modeler.

I wont say get a tube amp, but by the time you drop another 200 bucks into a distortion, reverb and wah pedals, you could have purchased something like a line6 hd 500 which would have a wah/volume/expression pedal built in.

For recording you could use that along with a free daw like audacity or an inexpensive one like reaper, though I believe most line6 stuff at least used to come bundled with abelton software.
 
Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

NecroPolo said:
I created only one little ReVaver-only demo track. I was just curious of how far I can go with it alone so there is no audio post processing. Note that it used some of the early versions of ReValver, V1.something I guess, the Peavey version is much more advanced.

Click to expand...


Hey man thanks for all the links and info, I will look at them but I don't wanna invest 100 of dollars on a software without knowing if i can get at least a good distortion tone out of it, I am not into all fancy effects, I need a good distortion and a quality reverb thats all.

Btw I listened your song, not my style of music, but I am impressed that you play precise and in time.
 
Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

what an informative thread!
thank you for sharing your thought guys :D
 
Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

Years ago I had a Line6 Flextone II. One day I bought a guitar with an EMG 81 and 85 set. When I plugged into the amp nothing would happen, all of my other guitars worked fine and the EMG guitar worked fine into my other amps.

One time I tried a tele into the line 6 but wanted a little push so I plugged in a tubescreamer....it sounded like turd but I then decided to try the EMG guitar again. It worked. The buffer was the key.

I then sold off the Line 6 and the guitar.
 
Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

Icarusfire said:
Hey man thanks for all the links and info, I will look at them but I don't wanna invest 100 of dollars on a software without knowing if i can get at least a good distortion tone out of it, I am not into all fancy effects, I need a good distortion and a quality reverb thats all.
Click to expand...

You are welcome.

Instead of speaking of abstractions and relying only on what folks say for and against, try it yourself:

Alien Connections

You can find older evaluation versions here. Note that the algorythms were improved much in the Peavey version but you can absolutely get a feel of it and decide if it's for you or not.


For a less time consuming way, I'd still suggest using a simple preamp with cab simulation out. Less (and more straightforward) options mean less between you and the song and a more efficient workflow. In creation phase that is a blessing. For example, yesterday I recorded rhythm guitar tracks and a little solo for a friend who is making an instru song for a computer demoscene streaming music competition. Setting up the sound with the AMT P1 was like, 10 seconds or so? No cabs + no amps + no precise microphone positioning + no preamp!channel strip setting (that all are fun anyway) = nothing between me and instant idea/inspiration.

For making demos of a 100% song you don't have to be a recording engineer. When the song itself reaches the max and you can make it an act, you'd better take Empty Pocket's advice and find someone who can make it ready for the public.


Icarusfire said:
Btw I listened your song, not my style of music, but I am impressed that you play precise and in time.
Click to expand...

Nice to hear that, but it was not as tight as I wanted really :) It's a wonder that this one remained in-synch at the end. I was fighting with unbearable latency issues when tracking and I did not find the reason. Later on it was solved with proper settings. "Know your DAW" sort of thing :)
 
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Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

One question, all discussion here was more on recording and home usage. How does a digital amp modeling unit(line 6 hd, micro br...etc) reacts if you want to use on a live setting with loud volumes(considering you connect to a PA system I guess)

I heard in this case the louder the volume is the more obvious its a digital modeling, is that correct?
 
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Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

Icarusfire said:
One question, all discussion here was more on recording and home usage. How does a digital amp modeling unit(line 6 hd, micro br...etc) reacts if you want to use on a live setting with loud volumes(considering you connect to a PA system I guess)

I heard in this case the louder the volume is the more obvious its a digital modeling, is that correct?
Click to expand...

Digital gear clips really bad whenever you overload the signal. You can ultimately get a louder signal using an analog signal path since the components have a much higher tolerance of wider dynamic ranges. You can overload analog components to color one's sound with each unit's inherent harmonic distortion added flavor to the mix.

Digital gear has a line in the sand that you can't cross. Crossing that line gets REALLY bad sounding distortion that isn't musically pleasing in any way. One must NEVER cross the zero mark with digital gear.

I use the exact same patch to record with that I use to play live with. I monitor out of an amp designed for accordion players that jazz guitarists appropriated as one of their amps of choice for getting a robust, clean, clear and transparent sound that didn't distort. I have extra feeds for the P.A. (balanced XLR) if the FOH guy feels like they are needed. You do have to spend a few minuted getting your levels the way you want them if the sound guy wants a feed, but I usually just turn the amp up when playing in a live setting.

Modeling makes things soooo easy. The gear is light and will NEVER break anyone's back schlepping gear out of a cramped bar without a load in area.

Guitarists on the concert stage level usually have techs and some roadies of some sort and don't need modelers nearly as much as the club guys, basement jammers, party rockers and bedroom wankers do.

I switched to digital modeling after being the doorman/bouncer at the same bar for close to 7 years. I would stand at the same place for every band and I had a unique opportunity to hear different rigs from nearly every Charlotte working cover band. Every amp of every type waltzed into that bar at one time or another. I made a mental note of the guitar players that had the best tone.

One name kept popping up over and over again with the "good tone" guys... Line 6. It was astonishing how guys with Marshall and MESA half stacks got usually boomy and muddy tones while the Line 6 guys had full frequency tones that were clear and never muddy every time.

My girlfriend's son got a Flextone amp and I would play the hell out of it whenever I was at their place.

My brother got the Line 6 bass floor unit and I was further blown away.

I just HAD to have a Line 6 unit and I went out and made one of the best $500 investments I've ever made and bought the Line 6 PODX3Live. They've replaced it with the HD series, but I am not even thinking about upgrading anytime soon.

I know for a fact that your BOSS unit is capable of really good sounds. Check out Marcello on it... wow!

 
Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

Icarusfire said:
One question, all discussion here was more on recording and home usage. How does a digital amp modeling unit(line 6 hd, micro br...etc) reacts if you want to use on a live setting with loud volumes(considering you connect to a PA system I guess)

I heard in this case the louder the volume is the more obvious its a digital modeling, is that correct?
Click to expand...

If you use them as a normal preamp to your guitar rig, everything depends on the power amp that you use as far as I could notice. If you kick a Mesa 50-50 with your POD no one will complain. If you use a budget EHX 44Magnum, no one will believe you that it is not a tube amp just a stompox sized class D unit. Tested, working :)

If you go direct, all depends on the sound guy. A real amp creates many unwanted sonic attributes as well that must be cured for a balanced live sound. It is the same case with anything direct, emulation or digital, they just need to be cut/boost elsewhere to shine in band environment.
 
Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

I just remixed this song, it is an analog modeler pedal with IRs for all guitar and bass : http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11638369

I figured I betta throw in some analogz with all this "digital versus tube" debatinz' :banana:

I like all of them and after years on the forumz I feel that I am a certified bonafied dignified audiophile GASSologist ;)
 
Re: Analog distortion pedal into Digital Amp modeling

this guy runs his pharaoh fuzz direct into his DI and modeler:

 
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