Another tube recommendation thread?

[Kam]

Another tube recommendation thread.

I've decided that it is of the utmost importance that I completely retube my Laney AOR 50. Post-haste.

I've done a little looking around and the tubes I see recommended a lot are Tung-Sol 12ax7s in the pre-amp and JJ or Svetlana EL34s in the power-amp. Since I don't feel like paying twice as much for the Svets, I'd probably go with the JJs.

I'm kinda prepared to go with that, but I'd like to hear what you guys have to say or recommend first. I'm looking for a big old thick tones, with plenty of beefiness. However, my amp seems to be pretty dark, naturally. I'm not sure if that's a quirk of this amp in general or if that's because the tubes in there are so very old, but brighter voiced tubes could probably be a good thing. Some more life and harmonics would be awesome. I also don't want it breaking up too soon, as I sometimes like my clean channel pretty clean.

I'd also be interested in hearing specific opinions about Sovtek 12ax7.

So what do you guys think? Tong-Sols and JJs? Or something else completely?

Oh yeah, what's the difference between EL34s and E34Ls? I recall seeing this before but I think I always just assumed it was a typo... :smack:

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

I like EHs in the preamp, but tung-sols are like alomst the same thing but not as sizzly. I'd roll with tung-sols in the preamp.

I've seen a bunch of people recommend the Chinese/Shuguang EL34B for when you cant afford the SED Winged C's (arguably the best new EL34 being made). I went with the chinese when I wanted something different from the stock svetlanas that came in my DSL.
The chinese el34B was decently clear, not too much mids, and great presence. Nice grind-y character when overdriven.
The svetlanas were all about mids, which is great for the "marshall" sound. Thick and vowel-like leads and a throaty roar when pushed. Mine weren't as clear and defined as the chinese tubes, though. Mine were pretty broken in when i got them, and that could be the reason.

o and you can order a medium breakup set from most decent tube retailers if you don't want things going crazy too soon. Personally though, I went with a "early breakup" set and still never ran out of headroom on my DSL's clean channel. It was loud enough to gig with, and my speaker was breaking up before the amp was. So, I dunno if I'd worry about headroom if you have a good clean channel.

 

[Kam]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

Oh sweet, I'd never even heard of Shuguang before. I checked them out and I can actually get them for slightly cheaper than the JJs so that sounds promising. I'll google them now and do a little reading on them.

Thanks, man. :beerchug:

 

[John E Rokker]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

JJ's are too dark - don't do it!

SED winged =C= for the power tubes if you can. Tungsols EL-34B's will work good too.

for the pre's i'd go EH for more mids, or Tungsols for more highs.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

On a side note, I have a pair of Sovtek "Made In Russia" EL34's with really really low hours on them that I'd send you, if the mailing charge wasn't too expensive and you wouldn't get nailed on import duties.

I had them put in my Marshall to replace the 6550's that were in there, and then I kept them in maybe for 10-15 hours until I had my amp modded, then I had =C='s put in.

Let me know.

 

[CTN]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

for 12ax7s, I find the Tung Sol's to be pretty hi-fi sounding. By that, I mean they take the natural voice of your amp, and make it crisper, clearer, and more musical. They are also low noise and high gain, which means you can get great overdrive tones, and great searing lead sounds if that's what you want.

EH 12ax7s I find to be very bright, and sizzly, as FuseG4 mentioned. Not entirely different from the Tung Sols, as they are also high gain and make things crisp and clear, but they aren't as clear sounding as Tung Sols, and the high end on them sounds a tad brittle to my ears. They are excellently built tubes, and definitely one you should consider, especially for a dark amp.

JJ 12ax7s - I don't agree with everyone that says they're dark. They are just more rounded sounding IMO. The mids and highs aren't as sharp as an EH for example, but the bass is fat and punchy. Also low noise/high gain.

I find that in my Jet City 100H (essentially a Soldano Hot Rod 100+), the combo of JJ in v1 and EH in v2 sounds pretty cool. As does JJ in v1 and Sovtek 12ax7-wb in v2 but not as punchy and aggressive as the EH.

Ultimately, though, I ended up going with:
V1 Tung Sol
V2 Tung Sol
V3 Shuguang
V4 EH
V5 JJ

 

[metlking]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

Tung-Sol preamp tubes are great, I love them, and I've tried most modern 12ax7's! JJ's aren't bad (in the right amp) and have their place as do Chinese 12ax7's. I'd buy all three and try them in different positions....

I hate the =C= everyone talks about. I bought into the hype and bought a quad when they first came out. Although they sounded OK at first, they faded within a few months, no thanks! I use Shuguang EL34B's and love them. Huge tight lows (bigger lows than other EL34's I've tried without being muddy) great mids and nice shimmering highs......Don't let the fact they're about the cheapest EL34 on the market these days scare you away..........I've used these tubes in Marshall's, a Splawn Quickrod, and now in my Bogner XTC.

 

[The JEM Ghost]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

-First of all, a lack of harmonics and life is pretty normal for an amp that has worn out tubes in it.

-As far as 12AX7 from Sovtek itself goes, I'd rather stay away from them except for the 12AX7LPS, but preferably in heads because it's a little prone to microphonics cause if vibrations in a lot of combos.

-There is indeed a JJ EL34 and E34L, the JJ E34L should be seen as "the bigger brother" of the EL34. The E34L is an EL34-type tube, but has higher power handling and can handle higher ratings as well. It's reputed to be an even "louder" version of the EL34, and has slightly more balls to it's sound compared to a regular EL34.

I'd try TS and/or EH 12AX7's in the pre-amp section, and some JJ EL34/E34L's for the power section and see how I like it from there. Remember that you can easily mix different brands of pre-amp tubes (to flavor to your likings).

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

Good points metlking, and I should point out that I haven't bought any tubes for about 4 years, so maybe the landscape of how these tubes sound and their production have changed enough for me to be a bit dated. Anyhow, good review of all the tubes.

Kam, my offer on tha Sovteks stands.

 

[misterwhizzy]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

I think there are three uniquely-voiced current-production preamp tubes. These are the Tung-Sol, the Mullard, and the JJ. The JJs are lousy in every amp in every position I've tried them in. I've gone with the short plate and the long plate designs, and they are both lousy. Take it for what it is, because it's only an opinion, but it's mine.

Then you've got the Tung-Sol, the ElectroHarmonix, and the Sovtek LPS. These are all fairly similar sounding to me, but the Tung-Sol is the best of the bunch. With EHX, you get a little more noise, and maybe a little more crunch, but overall they're a bit thinner sounding. The LPS is a very solid tube, but it just didn't have the character that the Tung-Sols have. They're all fairly bright, and they all sound pretty good, but the Tung-Sol is the best of three, again in my humble opinion.

Lastly, there is the Mullard RI, and it is very high-gain sounding if that makes any sense, but it is a bit darker and smoother. It's not as crunchy, but it's still a great-sounding tube. It turned out not to be my favorite, but that's not because of the quality or the sound. It was more for the flavor of the voicing.

So that's my two cents. Good luck.

 

[Kam]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

On a side note, I have a pair of Sovtek "Made In Russia" EL34's with really really low hours on them that I'd send you, if the mailing charge wasn't too expensive and you wouldn't get nailed on import duties.

I had them put in my Marshall to replace the 6550's that were in there, and then I kept them in maybe for 10-15 hours until I had my amp modded, then I had =C='s put in.

Let me know.

Thanks a lot, man, but even if you're nice enough to give me a really sweet price on them, the shipping and import duties alone would make them more expensive than a new set bought over here. I really genuinely appreciate the offer though. Cheers, dude.

Thanks to everyone for the input and advice here. 'Tis good stuff, gentlemen, keep it coming.

And if you'll allow me one more newb question....I always notice people talking about 'high-gain' tubes and I'm not completely sure what that means. Is it that they're better suited for high gain amps? Or do they add gain? Lower the clean headroom? Make me a better player, get me a record contract and a room full of hookers?

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

I meant that I'd just give them to you. Are you already drunk? Does "free" still mean "for no money" or "no charge" in Ireland, or is there another word I need to use?

 

[Kam]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

I meant that I'd just give them to you. Are you already drunk? Does "free" still mean "for no money" or "no charge" in Ireland, or is there another word I need to use?

On a side note, I have a pair of Sovtek "Made In Russia" EL34's with really really low hours on them that I'd send you, if the mailing charge wasn't too expensive and you wouldn't get nailed on import duties.

I had them put in my Marshall to replace the 6550's that were in there, and then I kept them in maybe for 10-15 hours until I had my amp modded, then I had =C='s put in.

Let me know.

Good points metlking, and I should point out that I haven't bought any tubes for about 4 years, so maybe the landscape of how these tubes sound and their production have changed enough for me to be a bit dated. Anyhow, good review of all the tubes.

Kam, my offer on tha Sovteks stands.

Um...where do you say free? I guess I should have caught on from the wording of your first sentence. D'oh. Jury duty for three solid weeks, constant job-searching and having to deal with different branches of the government attempting to communicate with each other do not make for a Kam on top of his game. :no:

That's a really generous offer and if I was an American lad I'd definitely take you up on it. But I found a pretty good deal on a pair of Shuguangs and some good prices on JJs and I think that shipping plus import tax would make your Sovteks more expensive than either of those options.

Thanks again though, man. I do appreciate it. :beerchug:

 

[glassman]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

I don't just work on these...I own one too.

Power tubes: any brand will work fine; bias them a little cooler (28 to 32mA) to get the most punch out of it.

V2 - V4: TungSols will work fine. Overall the amp isn't terribly sensitive to tube changes in these positions though JJ12AX7s (JJ ECC83s) will darken it, which could be a good thing. The amp has a lot of natural high end. A selection of different tubes in these positions will give you the ability to dial in the different EQ boosts more effectively by switching them around until you get the response you like.

V1: I would go with a 5th gen Chinese tube in this position if you want full gain; a fuller sounding tube in this position can make the amp kinda sludgy and the thinner character of the Chinese 5th gen tubes makes the overdrive a little smoother...thicker sounding tubes in V1 makes it sound choppy. A 12AY7 may be an attractive option for V1; it will lower the gain enough to give you cleaner cleans and when you kick in the AOR, it will be less compressed and have more attack.

 

[Jeff_H]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

Anytime.

 

[Kam]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

I don't just work on these...I own one too.

Power tubes: any brand will work fine; bias them a little cooler (28 to 32mA) to get the most punch out of it.

V2 - V4: TungSols will work fine. Overall the amp isn't terribly sensitive to tube changes in these positions though JJ12AX7s (JJ ECC83s) will darken it, which could be a good thing. The amp has a lot of natural high end. A selection of different tubes in these positions will give you the ability to dial in the different EQ boosts more effectively by switching them around until you get the response you like.

V1: I would go with a 5th gen Chinese tube in this position if you want full gain; a fuller sounding tube in this position can make the amp kinda sludgy and the thinner character of the Chinese 5th gen tubes makes the overdrive a little smoother...thicker sounding tubes in V1 makes it sound choppy. A 12AY7 may be an attractive option for V1; it will lower the gain enough to give you cleaner cleans and when you kick in the AOR, it will be less compressed and have more attack.

I was hoping you would post in this thread, actually. I know you own one yourself and you gave me some great advice the last time I posted a thread about issues I was having with it. :beerchug:

You really think it has a lot of high end? My amp seems really dark at the moment...though I guess that could be whatever tubes are in it at the minute. Or maybe just that they're old and on their way out.

12ay7 seems like a good idea for V1, I like the sound of cleaner cleans and more attack.

Sorry for the newb question here...but what are 5th gen Chinese tubes? Is that a particular brand?

 

[glassman]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

You really think it has a lot of high end?

Mine, after I rebuilt the power supply and retubed it, is very bright...not too bright but every bit as much as a Marshall 800 MV. Nothing the treble control can't tame down but the treble boost is overkill in high gain...I only find it usable when using the low gain input.

...but what are 5th gen Chinese tubes? Is that a particular brand?

It's the most common Chinese 12AX7 out there; almost every tube brand brand it and it's generally the cheapest. I sell Rubys and there's is called the 12AX7AC5 in their line. If you go with one of those, get the HG+ grade, they are the quietest and intended for the first stage of higher gain amps. Also called the "Sino 12AX7A" by some retailers.

 

[Hellion]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

I'd love to say that I'm one of those audiophile guitar players that can tell the difference between various tube types, but the fact of the matter is that I can't. I buy Sovtek. They're cheap by comparison and sound as good as any other tube I've used.

 

[Dr.Mavashi]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

Hi, another Laney AOR 50 watt die hard owner here. Although mine is the single channel six knobber. Glassman, almost everyone on Laney-Posse thinks that AORs are most pre-amp glass sensitive amps out there, interesting that you dont find it to be the case. I personally love the JJ ECC83S in my pre-amp with the Gold Pin in the V1 and high gain ones in V3 V4 (I think, I know I have two high gain ones), and E34Ls in the power section. I do find it true that EL34L tend to track fast pick dynamics better. But I do wanna try something new, especially now that the amp just got major work done it and it sounds fantastic. What would you recommend for something between Motor Head/Thin Lizzy and Lynch Mob territory, with either Fullshred or JB in the bridge?

 

[glassman]

Re: Another tube recommendation thread?

Glassman, almost everyone on Laney-Posse thinks that AORs are most pre-amp glass sensitive amps out there, interesting that you dont find it to be the case.

I agree that the 6 knobbers are pretty sensitive; much like a JCM800 is but the 8 knobbers, with the exception of the first tube, are less so. different tubes change the character of the distortion and not so much the tone. I guess you could call them sensitive to tube changes in that regard.

What would you recommend for something between Motor Head/Thin Lizzy and Lynch Mob territory, with either Fullshred or JB in the bridge?

I hate giving actual recommendations for a particular tone; a lot of it is in the hands of the player. I saw George Lynch play locally a while back and was 5 feet from him for the whole show and focused on how he played his guitar...I am totally surprised that his guitars survive him. He digs in really hard and holds his pick really close so that his thumb grazes the strings (at least that's what me and my beer saw). 90% of the gig was a TS808 through a early 70's metal face Marshall, which I'm sure Jimmy Wigle (who was playing rhythm guitar) had done some work in.

I think that the JJ E34L or the Ruby EL34BSTR are where you want to be at as far as power tubes go; both are the most reactive EL34 types out there and will give you good articulation with light string contact and will start to compress nicely when you dig in...as long as they are biased on the conservative side. A heavy bias will dull the articulation. This recommendation is based on the character of the tubes and setup...the rest is up to your hands.