I'd like to know if the clean channel is an improvement over the mini rectifier or just different. I think the mini rectifier has outstanding and versatile clean/crunch tones so it seems hard to beat. It does get a little compressed when pushed so if that aspect has been improved with the Badlander 25 then that's a plus. How about the drive/distortion tones, do you still prefer the classic rectifier tone or the new one?
Anyone Have a Badlander 25?
- Thread starter dr_m
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Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
Well, big part of the rectifier magic is the poweramp. It's designed in a unique way that makes it quite a bit different to other high gain amps'.
I'm sure the Mini Recto gets you there to an extent. But certainly not a full-band volumes.
Are you planning on doing just recording with it? Because then, you'll be fine. But if you plan to use it in a band, yeah. I don't think the Badlander is going to be that much better.
Honestly, I've always wondered what is it that a Badlander shares with a Rectifier for them to call them part of the Rectifier series. Because in the clips, they don't really sound like Rectifiers at all.
I'm sure the Mini Recto gets you there to an extent. But certainly not a full-band volumes.
Are you planning on doing just recording with it? Because then, you'll be fine. But if you plan to use it in a band, yeah. I don't think the Badlander is going to be that much better.
Honestly, I've always wondered what is it that a Badlander shares with a Rectifier for them to call them part of the Rectifier series. Because in the clips, they don't really sound like Rectifiers at all.
EL84 amps are a completely different feel from 6L6 or EL34.
If you are recording or practicing, it will sound good, but not much else. It doesnt have enough clean headroom so when you turn up, it will lack punch and definition.
Spending $1500 for a recording/practice amp with EL84s is way too much IM). You could get a full size 5150iii or even a 50 watt version with two 6L6 for the same price, and it will do much more.
These "boutique" lunchbox amps need to go away.
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
Agreed.
Even recorded, the bigger iron, bigger tube heads have something going on towards the very ends of the frequency spectrum that the EL84 amps with their tiny transformers don't.
Even recorded, the bigger iron, bigger tube heads have something going on towards the very ends of the frequency spectrum that the EL84 amps with their tiny transformers don't.
Yeah, just for a little recording, home practice, and occasional jamming with a band. I've only played maybe 8 or 10 gigs in the past but don't do that anymore. It's really frustrating dealing with irresponsible band members and band issues, etc. when it's not your profession so I'm happy just recording and jamming.
I run my Amps through a Suhr RL IR, and a Focusright Clarett for my my Fractal stuff, so whether it's a 100w Friedman, a 20w Mesa Boogie, or amp model, it's really, really hard to tell any difference. I doubt anyone even could. EL84s are definitely not my preference but gear is absurdly expensive these days so just making something you really want more accessible has a wide appeal.
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
Alright, man. If it works for you.
But yeah, I don't think the Badlander would be much different in the compression department to the Mini Recto. It's the same output tranny and power tubes. Not sure if their poweramp design is different. I'm sure it is to an extent. But a Recto's poweramp design is pretty wide-open to begin with.
So yeah, I don't think the Badlander would be what you should look at in this scenario.
I don't have first-hand experience with the Badlander 25, to be completely honest, so take that as a grain of salt. But I have tried the Badlander 50 and the Mini Recto, and I can sorta extrapolate what a Badlander would be like in a 25W presentation. I mean, after all, they're using the same output tranny and power tubes, so I bet even if it is a different poweramp design, it's not going to be a radically different one.
Honestly, if you're looking for gear that's more accessible, I don't think Mesa Boogie would be the answer, LOL. Especially if you're going for an uncompressed tone, because it looks like with Mesa, you're stuck with the 25W heads.
But yeah, I don't think the Badlander would be much different in the compression department to the Mini Recto. It's the same output tranny and power tubes. Not sure if their poweramp design is different. I'm sure it is to an extent. But a Recto's poweramp design is pretty wide-open to begin with.
So yeah, I don't think the Badlander would be what you should look at in this scenario.
I don't have first-hand experience with the Badlander 25, to be completely honest, so take that as a grain of salt. But I have tried the Badlander 50 and the Mini Recto, and I can sorta extrapolate what a Badlander would be like in a 25W presentation. I mean, after all, they're using the same output tranny and power tubes, so I bet even if it is a different poweramp design, it's not going to be a radically different one.
Honestly, if you're looking for gear that's more accessible, I don't think Mesa Boogie would be the answer, LOL. Especially if you're going for an uncompressed tone, because it looks like with Mesa, you're stuck with the 25W heads.
I appreciate the exhortatory but I've been playing and building guitars, fiddling with amps, and trading gear for 2 decades so I think I can navigate these things with prudence. I was actually just asking after first-hand experience rather than critiques on the amp, amps of it's kind, or suggestions on the use thereof.
Like I said in the previous post, I have Friedman, Bogner, Mesa Boogie 100w, 50w, and 35w amps already so all that's covered in spades. I have played a 50w Badlander and find it to be quite good so it seems logical to have the same expectation since Mesa has done a great job of replicating their rectifier and Mark amps on a smaller scale.
As for the compression, I wouldn't expect EL84s to have gobs of headroom and open distortion. However, considering the inherently brighter nature of the Badlander, that would lend to better cleans and more articulate distortion. Like with 100w amps, there are trade-offs so everyone finds success in their individual setups.
I'm aware the transformers are the same and don't have any expectation beyond a different sound and variation on feel. However, it's not like the difference between the mini rectifier and mini Rectoverb so I was curious to know how people who've used it have received the new lineup.
Like I said in the previous post, I have Friedman, Bogner, Mesa Boogie 100w, 50w, and 35w amps already so all that's covered in spades. I have played a 50w Badlander and find it to be quite good so it seems logical to have the same expectation since Mesa has done a great job of replicating their rectifier and Mark amps on a smaller scale.
As for the compression, I wouldn't expect EL84s to have gobs of headroom and open distortion. However, considering the inherently brighter nature of the Badlander, that would lend to better cleans and more articulate distortion. Like with 100w amps, there are trade-offs so everyone finds success in their individual setups.
I'm aware the transformers are the same and don't have any expectation beyond a different sound and variation on feel. However, it's not like the difference between the mini rectifier and mini Rectoverb so I was curious to know how people who've used it have received the new lineup.
This forum has about 25 active users so its not a great place to "google" for specific gear advice, but the user base here are all of a high experience level.
I would try TGP to get actual anecdotes regarding the mini badlander, but many of the respondents might be zoomers or blooze lawyers.
I would try TGP to get actual anecdotes regarding the mini badlander, but many of the respondents might be zoomers or blooze lawyers.
chadd
New member
Try one of the Mesa groups on Facebook, there are people with actual experience using the amps there. This one has been pretty decent https://www.facebook.com/groups/912575898774711/ .
Indeed, I appreciate a lot of the knowledge and also the music from people on this forum. I can't stand TGP, however, because their moderators are the worst. I've seen them ban people for disagreeing about certain amps, pickups, etc. Oh yeah, and don't mention JHS or Mesa Boogie as there seems to be some sort of aversion there.
From all indication, the Badlander has a lot to offer and sits really well within the range - though I hope Mesa has no plan to replace the Dual Rectifier. I can understand why Mesa put it in the rectifier range instead of creating a new line, and that's good because Mesa Boogie has a penchant for discontinuing great amps way before their time.
I don't know anything about Facebook but will look into that. Thanks. Yeah, I guess I sort of just assumed SD forum would be like some other forums where people seem to have endless financial reaources to buy and sell high dollar gear every week. However, there appears to be some level of down-to-earthness about this forum and I kind of like that because I don't care for much pretentiousness. Anyway, thanks for the guidance.
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Lots of people here are working musicians who can't really go out and buy everything they want immediately. We also like to keep it real here and not play the 'my gear is better than yours' game.
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
Oh, the Mesa 25W's do sound good! And they record beautifully a medium-ish volumes. But it's just the nature of all 15-25W 2xEL34 amps to sound narrow and compressed when they're at band-level volumes. Mesa, EVH, Orange, or any, for that matter.
TBH, I had a Peavey Classic 50/50 EL84 poweramp that I purchased new two decades ago, and it couldn't hold a candle to the 120 Watt 6L6 XXX that replaced it.
Even a 100 Watt EL84 amp doesn't really deliver for rock and metal.
The El84s seemed to disappear for nearly two decades and popped up more recently in these lunchbox amps. I am sceptical. If they were so great, they'd be used in full size heads.
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Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
The reason most companies use EL84's more than full-size tubes (like some companies are using) or even 6V6's is because they need less beefy power transformers to be able to supply them enough voltage/current. And low-wattage amps are usually built to a price point, and transformers are probably the most expensive parts in amps, so...
Even in low-wattage amps, if the starved voltage big-bottle tubes are not done right, they sound bad turned up. Like the Krank Rev Jr. I had one that sounded like wet fart turned up.
I've heard the Marshall 20W's and the PRS MT15 do better. Surely the Soldano Hot Rod 25/SLO30 does better too.
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Phantasmagoria
watch where you point that sabre
Don't really get the hate for El84's & I don't think generalizations work here either. i"ve got 30 watt heads running big bottles (Cocognani Brutus Live..runs pretty much any octal tube) and EL84's (Laboga The Beast's '30 Plus' & 'Classic' ) and they both sound great for metal as well as solo's and stuff. Big Bottels do tend to sound a bit edgier & EL84's are often rounder sweeter butthat's not nessesarily a bad thing for metal (or solo's) and not always the case either
The tranny in the Brutus is pretty much the same size as the one's in the Laboga's (They're both pretty huge for 30 watter's) .
Laboga 30W EL84
Brutus 30W 5881 (Can run anything including KT88's)
It's Basically the way the amp is laid out & constructed that counts. I mean look at the the way Bluguitar AMP 1 Iridium & Mercury amps sound with that dinky nanotube in them (Pretty monstrous!)
Having said thst I sure as hell hope there are no plans to discontinue te dual rec in favour of the Badlander, not that it sounds bad to my ears by any means..
The tranny in the Brutus is pretty much the same size as the one's in the Laboga's (They're both pretty huge for 30 watter's) .
Laboga 30W EL84
Brutus 30W 5881 (Can run anything including KT88's)
It's Basically the way the amp is laid out & constructed that counts. I mean look at the the way Bluguitar AMP 1 Iridium & Mercury amps sound with that dinky nanotube in them (Pretty monstrous!)
Having said thst I sure as hell hope there are no plans to discontinue te dual rec in favour of the Badlander, not that it sounds bad to my ears by any means..
Rex_Rocker
Well-known member
I don't hate on EL84's. I've tried the Hughes and Kettner Tubemeister 40 or whatever. It sounds pretty good and loud enough to keep up with a drummer.
I specified in my post that it was 15-25W 2xEL84 amps that don't do it for me. For metal, once you get them going, they all sound shrill, farty, or shrill and farty. And that's if you can get them loud enough. Because some of them just don't keep up. I've owned the EVH LBX 1 and 2, the Dark Terror, the Tiny Terror, and I've tried the Laney Ironheart... whatever the small one is called, and the Mini Rectifier. All OK, especially recorded. With maybe the exception of the Tiny Terror. But in a live setting with a full band, they just wouldn't cut it. And some of them don't even sound good turned way down either like the Mini Rec or the EVH LBX II.
And also, the fact that they're running big-bottle tubes doesn't automatically make a lunchbox amp better. Example was my Krank, that sounded like wet fart in a full-band scenario. It recorded soooooo well turned a bit down, though. But I'm just an enemy of cathode-biased amps for metal, TBH.
I specified in my post that it was 15-25W 2xEL84 amps that don't do it for me. For metal, once you get them going, they all sound shrill, farty, or shrill and farty. And that's if you can get them loud enough. Because some of them just don't keep up. I've owned the EVH LBX 1 and 2, the Dark Terror, the Tiny Terror, and I've tried the Laney Ironheart... whatever the small one is called, and the Mini Rectifier. All OK, especially recorded. With maybe the exception of the Tiny Terror. But in a live setting with a full band, they just wouldn't cut it. And some of them don't even sound good turned way down either like the Mini Rec or the EVH LBX II.
And also, the fact that they're running big-bottle tubes doesn't automatically make a lunchbox amp better. Example was my Krank, that sounded like wet fart in a full-band scenario. It recorded soooooo well turned a bit down, though. But I'm just an enemy of cathode-biased amps for metal, TBH.
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Well, the fact is that some of the greatest amps in history have EL84s - like Matchless, Vox. etc. Personally, I like big bottle tubes a whole lot more. I wish Mesa Boogie would have at least used 6V6s instead of EL84s but the fact is, they sound really good as they're designed. I'll tell you an EL84 amp only a fool would knock - the Friedman Pink Taco. It's loud, punchy, and sounds incredibly good. Actually, the Little Sister is also as good.
The problem is there are some common constraints these days. Primarily money and loudness. If you're stuck on 100w amps but don't play them at ear piercing volume then you're kind of preaching a faulty gospel. Believe me man, I love the sound of an EL34 quartet cranked so loud we'd start getting noise complaints from Mars. It's not just that they need to be played loud to sound good because some amps, like the 180 watt Diezel Herbert, sound great at low volume. It's that whatever you consider great sounding is significantly subjective.
Many people can't afford or get anywhere near the volume of a $3000, 100w head, so we settle for the little brother which may not be it but sounds really good and no one can tell from a recording. All I'm saying is the whole small tube/low wattage criticism overlooks some of the biggest tones in rock history.
I think most of us can agree that a mini rectifier or Mark V 25 sounds very good. Maybe it doesn't deliver chest thumping low end and knock salt shakers off the tables, but oh man does it sound awesome from the least to the greatest of it's volume limitation.
As for the Badlander 25, it's a killer sound and the only difference is the low end fullness that can only be had with big tubes. That's no big deal to me because I like the way it sounds. Someone suggested just getting a 50w or 100w Badlander, but the question then would be whether they could sound as good at lower volumes. I think they can sound pretty good but that rich goodness only comes with volume. At least with small bottles you can drive them and not harm kids in the next room.
By the way, the Friedman Little Sister is a totally stunning example of a cranked Marshall at much lower volume. If you ever played one, you'd really appreciate what it does as you increase the volume. It's a master quality amp in a small package.
The problem is there are some common constraints these days. Primarily money and loudness. If you're stuck on 100w amps but don't play them at ear piercing volume then you're kind of preaching a faulty gospel. Believe me man, I love the sound of an EL34 quartet cranked so loud we'd start getting noise complaints from Mars. It's not just that they need to be played loud to sound good because some amps, like the 180 watt Diezel Herbert, sound great at low volume. It's that whatever you consider great sounding is significantly subjective.
Many people can't afford or get anywhere near the volume of a $3000, 100w head, so we settle for the little brother which may not be it but sounds really good and no one can tell from a recording. All I'm saying is the whole small tube/low wattage criticism overlooks some of the biggest tones in rock history.
I think most of us can agree that a mini rectifier or Mark V 25 sounds very good. Maybe it doesn't deliver chest thumping low end and knock salt shakers off the tables, but oh man does it sound awesome from the least to the greatest of it's volume limitation.
As for the Badlander 25, it's a killer sound and the only difference is the low end fullness that can only be had with big tubes. That's no big deal to me because I like the way it sounds. Someone suggested just getting a 50w or 100w Badlander, but the question then would be whether they could sound as good at lower volumes. I think they can sound pretty good but that rich goodness only comes with volume. At least with small bottles you can drive them and not harm kids in the next room.
By the way, the Friedman Little Sister is a totally stunning example of a cranked Marshall at much lower volume. If you ever played one, you'd really appreciate what it does as you increase the volume. It's a master quality amp in a small package.
