Attention Night Train owners / Tube gurus

[wahwah]

Re: Attention Night Train owners / Tube gurus

Yes, thank you. I got it.
The thing is that I was googling for some NOS Mullards and, find some US pages asking 170 USD for a single tube (and they were out of stock!!!).
:eyecrazy::eyecrazy::eyecrazy::eyecrazy:

I'm still not sure why anyone would specifically be looking for NOS tubes, when the premium payed for NOS is exorbitant, and 'good used' prices are so much cheaper, for tubes that are still registering either NOS values, or well into the 'good' range of available life. Just yesterday, I picked up a square getter 50's Blackburn Mullard, a halo getter early 60's Blackburn Mullard, a square getter Telefunken, a blackplate Sylvania and a square getter grey plate branded CBS that appears to be an RCA. The total cost of all five tubes in the one listing was $102.50. There were photographs of each tube sitting in the tester, all showing them to be well into the good range. That's years of great tone.

It's almost as if people throw around the NOS banner without understanding what that really means, as if NOS is a general term for vintage tubes. It is not imperative that the vintage tubes we seek are new old stock. 'Good used' can refer to a tube that has been sitting in guitar amp that has sat in somebody's home for 40 years, played once in a while. That tube may well handle 8 years of rigorous professional use. Many of the vintage tubes sold as 'good used' still maintain their NOS operational values.




Cheers......................................... wahwah

 

[wahwah]

Re: Attention Night Train owners / Tube gurus

^^ Baldwins are a winner! The tone trends more upward than the Mullards - more highs and upper mids and a little less bass. Mids are about the same, as are dynamics. Not overly spikely at all - not even with a SD Broadcaster. With the gain really pushed they just need to be tamed a bit, but hey, it is a Broadcaster and that's what a tone knob is for.

I still have 2 more Ray's coming, but unlike the MIA Baldwins, the next pair are Japanese. Should be an interesting shootout.

Oh and I also have a pair of Sylvania (Silvertone) EL84s in transit

That's great that you found something that you like in that amp. The Raytheons do what you wanted a preamp tube upgrade to do, and now your search will continue with a new point of reference. From here, it's either a matter of settling with the superior tone you've found and grabbing a few more Raytheons, or being pleasantly surprised by something else along the way. And I think you may be doing the vintage tube search just in the nick of time. From what I've seen on eBay, the supplies of the good stuff are beginning to seriously dwindle.



Cheers...................................... wahwah

 

[AniML]

Re: Attention Night Train owners / Tube gurus

I still have 2 more Ray's coming, but unlike the MIA Baldwins, the next pair are Japanese. Should be an interesting shootout.

The MIJ Raytheons are bass monsters. A little sizzly on the top end (nowhere near something I would characterize as unpleasant) , but even on a Tele bridge pickup with a .042 E string the lows just THUMP

Fellow NT owners, get yer arse on eBay and pick up a pair of the Japanese Raytheons. They shouldn't run you more than $20ish for the pair

 

[AniML]

Re: Attention Night Train owners / Tube gurus

The Siemens EL84s are much more airy than the Sovteks yet still pack a punch. The Baldwin EL84s do not have as dynamic an EQ as the Siemens and are not as agressive as the Sovteks. They would be an excellent choice for a player looking for a higher fidelity clean. I still have a set of Sylvania EL84s en route.

On the Preamp side, once I got vintage tubes into the NT, they are all an improvement over the stock Sovteks. No surprises there. I think so far I like the MIJ Rays the best because they just really pack a wallup on the lower freqencies. I am also very pleased with the FAAs (RCA?), Baldwins and US Raytheons.

The RCA 5751 did what it was supposed to do, and just does not drive this amp like I want. Out of all the tubes I bought, only one dud - a Magnavox with no balls that I got on eBay for $5

I still have some Sylvanias on the way here too, which I expect will fall right in line with all the rest. Again, it's all good!

 

[ACH91332]

Re: Attention Night Train owners / Tube gurus

To fatten things up you can try the Mullard reissue 12AX7, JJ 12AX7, EH 12AX7, Sovtek 12AX7LPS, or a JAN GE 5751 which has 30% less gain than a 12AX7. These are all tubes I have used which I think are on the darker side. All are current production and relatively cheap except the 5751 which is NOS and the one I got ran me $30. Not too expensive but not crazy cheap either.

The tube I use in V1 of my JVM is a JJ 12AX7. The Mullard seemed flat and I don't have it anymore. I used that when I wanted a different tone than I want now so it might sound great actually. The EH 12AX7 sounded great and sounded like the JJ but a tad more present, the Sovtek was very very round and thick but almost too thick for me with my setup and I used it in PI for awhile instead, the 5751 fattened things up and dropped the gain just a tad. It was very round and musical sounding but I broke it It was super hot when I took it out and out of instinct I let go and it busted so I dont have it anymore. I ended up with the JJ because I liked the feel of it a little more than the other tubes and it seemed to have a better harmonic response to it too. I had bite to it still and it wasn't as flubby to me as everyone else thinks it to be.

 

[AniML]

Re: Attention Night Train owners / Tube gurus

I think I have come to the realization that the Raytheon and Baldwin tubes are an ideal fit for the Night Train. The Raytheon labeled MIJ grey short plates definitely have more low end than the USA Baldwins (made by Ray) w/ black long plates.

I am unable to determine however if the added bass presence of the Japanese tubes is due to the different plate spec or a different manufacturing process in the US vs Japan.

I am very new at this whole tube evaluation thing, but I am convinced that GUOS "gently used old stock" is where it's at. At $10-$15 a pop, these tubes are amazing. Fook JJs

 

[AniML]

Update: The Final Answer - for now

Update: The Final Answer - for now

After a few weks of playing I have found perhaps the perfect NT tube combination without bleeding money:

Old stock Saratov EL84s + Raytheon 12AX7s. I find the MIJ 12AX7 short plates have more low end presence but they all are killer. Great thing is a full retube will only run you about $50-$60. If your short on cash biggest bang is the 12AX7s @ about $10-$15 a pop on eBay. The Raytheons are often labeled in yellow as Baldwin Organ tubes, but they can commonly be found branded as Raytheons. Green labeled Baldwins are Sylvanias and to my ear are a bit bright for this amp, but maybe would get the job done better with a darker guitar or speaker.

The Saratovs are Russian military ~1980s NOS. I got mine from what seems to be the definitive source: Sgt Overdrive aka Tube Tramp, although if you want to gamble, it seems they are also readily available on the cheap from Russian and Ukrainian eBay sellers.

 

[AniML]

Re: Attention Night Train owners / Tube gurus

Yup Sovteks all around. I am back and forth between Saratov and Siemens EL84s (see above posts) - cannot make up my mind - which means not a huge difference.

If you find the 12AX7WA's blurry (I concur) grab a pair of Raytheon or Baldwin labelled Raytheons off of ebay. Here they're around around $15 - $20 each, not sure of prices in Europe. If you can't get that, the JJ ECC83s does a nice enough job. If money is tight, at least swap the V1 tube and leave V2 stock.

 

[AniML]

Re: Attention Night Train owners / Tube gurus

Yes, I've got some tubes around to try (JJ ECC83S, Tung Sol, TAD 7025 Higrade) and what to try some EH and Mullard re-issue but, by now, I like how it sounds. I don't need to crack the gain. Gain at 9 o'clock and Volume at 3 o'clock, with an OCD (running at 18V) is pure magic.

I don't want to swap tubes right now. I made some mod to my strato and want to check it without swaping tubes, because I want to valuate the goodness of the pickups swapping and wiring.
After that, I will probably start the tube swapping dance but, at least, I think I haven't to deal with EL84 by now.

The Sovtek EL84s are fine, but I have an insatiable tone habit that cannot be satisfied no matter how good it gets, so I pulled them.

But with a preamp swap everything really does get better, not corksniffery at all. Don't do yourself the injustice of staying with the Sovtek 12AX7WAs. Evaluate your Strat after a preamp tube swap. It's worth the 10 minute delay - FuseG4'll tell you too

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Attention Night Train owners / Tube gurus

Here i am to tell you about preamp tube swapping.

I did not have to try many tubes before I found that 1) sovtek 12ax7wa's are lame, 2) there's lots of good used vintage tubes to be ahd for cheap 3) most of em sound alright 4) some of em sound GREAT.

Think about the first time you tried a pickup that really went with your guitar. the right 12ax7's will feel kinda like that.

Almost anything to me is better than the sovtek 12ax7. it's dark, muddy, and fizzy. As far as new production stuff, I liked the electro-harmonix. It's bight, clear, and has some girth when it's pushed. I'm using a raytheon now.

 

[AniML]

Re: Attention Night Train owners / Tube gurus

I tried the Tung Sol and Chinese (Penta) in the Vox. Neither did "it" for me. The JJ was good, but not as complex to me as Raytheon. In fact I tried Mullards too that were more than double the $ the price of the Raytheon and did nothing more than the Raytheon. I found the MIJ short plate Raytheon to have the most low end punch without sacrificing much in the mids. RCA, GE and Sylvania might be OK with a darker speaker, but I found them to be too much in such a bright amp. The Raytheon seem to be the best fit for me for performance and price.

I have read that modern circuitry can be more of a common denominator with tubes and that holy grail tubes may not shine like they will in vintage circuits - especially at the NT price point. Maybe not the case with higher end modern amps, but I do not have any way to try it.

So I would say try what you have, but if you can grab up a pair of Raytheon. if that not an option, then I think you might like the JJ best of current prod

I beleive on your side of the world Watford Valves can get you good non-pricey power tubes as well as Sgt Overdrive. If you check out their site and some writings of Miles Rose you will learn that they did EXTENSIVE testing with Brian May. How friggin cool would that be ???

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Attention Night Train owners / Tube gurus

it's good to see you've done some proper 12ax7 testing.

you owe it to yourself to try some el84's. they also make a big difference.

I could never go back to sovtek el84s now that I have these matsush*tas. I almost want to say those el84' sound good no matter what 12ax7 is in v1

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Attention Night Train owners / Tube gurus

My old stock raytheon started sounding lame the other day so I went back to EH for v2 and stuck the japanese 12ax7 in v1.

I like the japan tube in v1 for it's glassy, bright clean and good headroom. The EH has less headroom so I figure it works better in v2. After all, when you're running the amp at full volume, the PI (v2) is starting to break up. I don't really notice the v2 tube changes until I crank the volume, then the v2 tube starts to work and I can hear the difference.

I've never tried the new production JJ's in my night train, but I liked them the blackheart I used to have.

 

[FuseG4]

Re: Attention Night Train owners / Tube gurus

Nice. If I have to buy a backup set of el84s any time soon I'll look at golden lions.
I like EH's for 12ax7's if it has to be new production