AXE FX lead tones all the same?

[Top-L]

I have heard a bunch of AXE FX recordings (lead) and the tone is great, but most of them all sound about the same. Perfect compression, articulate, balanced EQ, warm top, something that sits right in the mix.

I was wondering if anyone has heard some clips of different lead types (like a cranked plexi or a Satriani DS-1 into an amp style)?

It occured to me that the distortion pedal into an amp tone is actually hard to get with a modeler because the speaker naturally rounds out the harsh top and gives it a "papery" character. Usually modellers have a hard time with ultra-presence style sounds because they end up sounding harsh or have artifacts.

Also, I have noticed that the tone is homogenized between pickups. Check this sfogli video where he changes from a Norton bridge to a PAF 36th in the neck. There are mild differences, much less than when played through a real amp. (I have played these pickups extensively.) IME, the Norton is much more agressive and not as compressed as the tone Sfogli gets with it through the AXE, which suggests is homogenizes the pickups to a degree.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW9CLoqbqK8

I know hes got a mesa in the background but I think he's just paying homage to Petrucci as the majority of his vides are done with an AXE.

Just looking for some different lead sounds from the AXE to listen to.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

Just because he switched in the vid doesn't mean he switched when he was recording the song. Also i'm sure he did multiple takes and added post EQ to the tracks so keep that in mind.

 

[Top-L]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

Just because he switched in the vid doesn't mean he switched when he was recording the song. Also i'm sure he did multiple takes and added post EQ to the tracks so keep that in mind.

Thats possible, but you have to admit, they sound really close.

 

[aleclee]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

Something like this?

And here's a lead tone with a bit more "honk"

 

[Top-L]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

How about a Def Leppard or Joe Satrini cover. Those are the sounds I want to hear, not something experimental.

Note: These are iconic types of tones, so the AXE should be able to do them, right?

 

[Top-L]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

The AXE reminds me of the Johnson J-Station from 20 years ago. Sounded great but everything was a variation of the same distortion.

 

[dystrust]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

The AXE reminds me of the Johnson J-Station from 20 years ago. Sounded great but everything was a variation of the same distortion.

The Axe FX and J-Station aren't remotely in the same league. I haven't played every modeler on the market, but the Axe is the only one I've seen that comes remotely close to approximating the feel and volume knob / dynamics response of a real amp. It's far closer than an Eleven Rack, I'd say it gets 90-95% of the way there; roughly on par with a really good rack system.

The following videos may not contain everything you're looking for, but they should be a decent starting point. They were done in 2009-2010 by the European distributor for Fractal Audio on an Axe Ultra in an attempt to approximate tones from Django Reinhardt through today in 4 videos sorted roughly by era. I've heard the AxeFX II is supposed to be even better, but I haven't had a chance to play one.

Part I:

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZ1-rF_rG7I

Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEwxZsZqJbA

Part 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXP4Q83--eI

 

[dystrust]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

How about a Def Leppard or Joe Satrini cover. Those are the sounds I want to hear, not something experimental.

Note: These are iconic types of tones, so the AXE should be able to do them, right?

Satriani tone can be found at about 5:30 in part 3, but I really recommend checking out all four.

 

[uOpt]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

The strength of the Axe-FX isn't so much that it can actually emulate a wide variety of amps each accurately.

The great thing is that you have a useful total package of all the non-amp/cab effects all rolled into a preset.

That sounds like cheating but in the real world the non-amp/cab effects that you hear on your favorite recordings make a huge difference. Especially any form of room simulation. Recording the same amp in different rooms is not remotely the same. The Axe-FX will roll that sound that tried to be that album into a total package with room, and that's why it sounds like that recording.

If you go and turn off all effects but preamp, power amp, cabinet and mic then it doesn't quite like if you took a single room and mic position and just exchanged amps with no other changes. In practice, nobody does that. Your record collection has practically no two albums recorded with different amps and everything else the same including room and mic positions. If you want the variety of sounding like a variety of albums you should give the Axe-FX the full package and don't turn off much of it.

 

[Top-L]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

The strength of the Axe-FX isn't so much that it can actually emulate a wide variety of amps each accurately.

The great thing is that you have a useful total package of all the non-amp/cab effects all rolled into a preset.

That sounds like cheating but in the real world the non-amp/cab effects that you hear on your favorite recordings make a huge difference. Especially any form of room simulation. Recording the same amp in different rooms is not remotely the same. The Axe-FX will roll that sound that tried to be that album into a total package with room, and that's why it sounds like that recording.

If you go and turn off all effects but preamp, power amp, cabinet and mic then it doesn't quite like if you took a single room and mic position and just exchanged amps with no other changes. In practice, nobody does that. Your record collection has practically no two albums recorded with different amps and everything else the same including room and mic positions. If you want the variety of sounding like a variety of albums you should give the Axe-FX the full package and don't turn off much of it.

I wouldn't call it cheating, but I would call it a redistribution of work. How does that differ from recording the dry simulation into a DAW and using the compression, EQ, tape simulation, and room simulation? Pretty sure the AXE will have its ass handed to it by a moderate power daw with plug-ins, at least for offline processing (if needed.) From what I can gather, the AXE has changed how guitarists are constructing their music- instead of doing those things in the daw, they reamp through the AXE. I have heard that for live use its a mixed bag, that the discriminating players are turning off the amp and cab sim and playing through a tube amp + 412.

I haven't been overly impressed with the AXE clips I've heard. The metal/progressive lead tone is great, but I have also heard a bunch of patches where you can hear the digital nature leaking through; maybe the user had selected the wrong set of options or cab sims?

And there is a similarity between all the models. Not saying that other modelers don't have the same problem, just that the AXE gives you 10x more options, but doesnt really solve the underlying problem any better than the other ones. As you say, it packages everything into a single patch and trumps everything in options, but one can still do better with speakers and mics, imo.

That is the beauty of reamping; anyone who is serious about their guitar tone will be able to find a studio or room where he can crank his DI signal and re-record with a real amp.

I think the thing the AXE has going for it most is its user base; they are generally more experienced and help each other develop patches, as opposed to the typical Line6 or Fender Mustang users.

 

[Top-L]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

Satriani tone can be found at about 5:30 in part 3, but I really recommend checking out all four.

OK, the satriani tone is really good! The Malsteen patch sucks though. I think the versatility is coming from the guitars as much as the axe. I suppose theres no way around that- you need a YJM strat and YJM fingers to sound like YJM.

I think the guy in the video could have done the same thing with a Line6 or Guitar Rig, but it would have taken him much longer. On the whole I agree its very versatile. I wonder how much external processing that guy is using (tube preamp, PEQ, mastering compression, etc.) post AXE?

 

[dominus]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

I saw Brit Floyd a few weeks ago, both guitarists were using Axe FX units, and nailing every tone from every Pink Floyd song. It would have taken a huge rack of effects and tons of programming/switches to do it, and would have been a lot klunkier.

 

[uOpt]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

I saw Brit Floyd a few weeks ago, both guitarists were using Axe FX units, and nailing every tone from every Pink Floyd song. It would have taken a huge rack of effects and tons of programming/switches to do it, and would have been a lot klunkier.

Well, the big problem for me (and I guess you) is that even if you had that rack, there's way too many knobs to turn.

The Axe-FX has somebody familiar with it pre-program the whole thing for you. Whether the amp or cab model is 100% accurate is really just a piece in there, and in the case of Pink Floyd probably not as important e.g. for Peter Green sounds.

 

[everdrone]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

one thing to consider is that players that are limited in style/technique are gonna sound the same through most rigs;

they may be adjusting their settings similar on each amp too

also, axefx cannot really model fuzz pedals to my liking so it is limited in that respect

the kemper definitely does NOT sound the same for all lead tones, I dig 70s sludgy tones, check out these Kemper clips of Orange OR120, Matamp and Marshall JCM800 here, they all sound MASSIVELY different and true to the amp (though the licks are similar):

http://www.theampfactory.com/all-downloads/amps-pack-4/

 

[dystrust]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

I think the guy in the video could have done the same thing with a Line6 or Guitar Rig, but it would have taken him much longer. On the whole I agree its very versatile. I wonder how much external processing that guy is using (tube preamp, PEQ, mastering compression, etc.) post AXE?

If you go to Youtube and read the notes on the video, he recorded direct to Cubase with ZERO additional processing. With the exception of the backing tracks, everything you hear is the AxeFx. Regarding Line6 or Guitar Rig, they don't respond nearly as accurately to volume knob changes. If you look at the Led Zep examples in the first video, all of those tone changes are the result of either pickup switch or volume knob.

 

[Top-L]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

I have Guitar Rig 5 but I haven't used it, came with K9U. I was playing around with GR4 last year and it responded to volume/tone swells well, but not quite as good as the Fender Mustang. Maybe GR5 is better. They actually modeled the input stage so it responds to the guitar.

I remember thinking that GR4 was VERY usable and like the AXE, the chain is infinitely configurable, you can even run plug-ins within Guitar Rig. They even make a footswitch so you can play it live, although I didn't vibe with it like I have the Mustang.

The mustang amp models are absolutely the best I have played, but the FX processing is limited, although you could easily record to daw w/ plugs or play it though the Guitar Rig FX rack.

I really think that the other amp sims have "arrived" (sound totally convincing when played and miked through a tube amp), but I think the axe is the only one to provide the finishing touches. Thats probably a function of the complexity the AXE users are willing to accept.

 

[dystrust]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

From what I can gather, the AXE has changed how guitarists are constructing their music- instead of doing those things in the daw, they reamp through the AXE. I have heard that for live use its a mixed bag, that the discriminating players are turning off the amp and cab sim and playing through a tube amp + 412.

I've heard pretty much the opposite re: playing live. Many of those guys (Chris Broderick of Megadeth for example) use those 4x12s and tube power amps purely as stage monitors. Their FOH sound is direct from the Axe.

 

[Top-L]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

I've heard pretty much the opposite re: playing live. Many of those guys (Chris Broderick of Megadeth for example) use those 4x12s and tube power amps purely as stage monitors. Their FOH sound is direct from the Axe.

I didn't know the big acts were using the amp models. I heard Vai and Petrucci were still using amps, only using the axe for its effects.

 

[dystrust]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

I didn't know the big acts were using the amp models. I heard Vai and Petrucci were still using amps, only using the axe for its effects.

Vai and Petrucci are using it only for effects, as is Billy Howerdel from A Perfect Circle. James Iha OTOH switched to running an AxeFX direct for the latest APC tour.

 

[aleclee]

Re: AXE FX lead tones all the same?

Vai and Petrucci are using it only for effects, as is Billy Howerdel from A Perfect Circle. James Iha OTOH switched to running an AxeFX direct for the latest APC tour.

They use amps for stage volume but FOH is AxeFx. Same goes for Lifeson and Petrucci.

Here's a recent Metallica concert where all guitars and bass are AxeFx.