Best way to go about buying a LP

[Boogie Bill]

Re: Best way to go about buying a LP

As Boogie Bill illustrated... Playing LOTS of guitars results in buying LOTS of guitars! :laugh2:

Yeah, I guess I kinda forgot to mention that particular pitfall! LOL!

But I will say this is my only hobby; I don't golf, fish, hunt, own a boat, fix up hot rods, or ski--or travel to expensive vacation spots. I don't have a mistress like Donald Sterling's girlfriend, or a bunch of rug-rats that need shoes. I'd much rather spend my money on guitars and gear than snobby wine or craft-distilled rare tequilas. And I don't have a fat retirement account or a stock portfolio. Music is my vice.

I have been very, very, very fortunate over the last few years to have stewardship over some wonderful instruments, and I am so blessed and thankful for the God-given talent I have received, and to have had the opportunity to share it and make a living at it. It's been a wonderful ride.

Bill

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: Best way to go about buying a LP

I know that lifestyle well. Next time I get up to Portland, I'll give you a holler.

 

[Myaccount876]

Re: Best way to go about buying a LP

From my perspective, all there really is to it are three things:

A) Sound
B) Play-ability
C) Looks

I personally have developed a preference for chambered Les Pauls. They just feel more "at home" to me, and sound more open in the high end. I can understand someone not liking the chambering, but I can't understand someone saying "all chambered LPs suck". That sounds more like a problem with the player than a problem with the guitar.

As for looks, I want something that is nice to look at but still something I can work with and not be overly cautious around. Something like a glossy Wine Red LP Studio with gold hardware would fit that description IMO. I definitely would not mind buying a Les Paul with a cracked headstock; if done correctly the glued joint between the two pieces will be more structurally sound than the single piece of wood. That, and there is a huge drop in price with something like that.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Best way to go about buying a LP

I think Gibson has some of the best quality control, and the materials they use are generally superior to less expensive guitars. The thing that confuses people is that Gibson and Martin guitars come with barely any setup on purpose. Expensive guitars are made for experienced players who are particular about the setup, so they leave that final step to the player. If they cut the nut too low for shredder action, it's too late to set up the guitar for higher action, so they don't do it. This is part of the reason most Gibsons play a little clunky in the store.

Everyone has their own idea of 'best Les Paul,' but I think the cheapest way to get what you want is to try as many as you can in the store, decide which model/neck/tuners/electronics/color, then buy that EXACT model used. Most importantly, decide if you like the thicker 50's neck or slimmer 60's neck, because that really determines the feel of a Les Paul.

As someone who has worked in a music store for years and have seen/ played piles of Gibsons coming through, I can honestly say that you are wrong. Gibson's quality control is terrible in comparison to the other companies. Easily the #1 brand we send back because something is wrong with it. Just in the last few months (we only get in new Gibsons every few months, depending on sales of course):

-SG returned due to scratches all over the guitar and finish not being removed from binding (it ships in a HS case btw)
-LP returned due to WRONG TRUSS ROD COVER (if that's not a testament to bad QC I don't know what is)
-LP returned due to nut/ neck binding issues. This is a plek'd guitar as well. high e was way too far over and binding was split allowing the e string to get caught up. A few minutes with the guitar and you notice this.

There's been many more but I'll stick to the most recent examples. And that 3 in an order of less than 10 guitars. As for your setup comment...you really need to stop sucking Gibson's d***. Just because its a 'professional level' instrument doesn't mean they get to skip the setup process. Part of this process allows them to sort out QC issues such as fret leveling and so forth. If I paid 2k for a guitar then had to get the nut worked on I'd freak. I agree personal adjustments will need to b made, but that's no excuse to be lazy at the factory. Also, Martin's generally come in in WAY better condition than the Gibson's do. Are you sure your not trying a Martin that's been sitting there 6 months without being adjusted? They are rather finicky in climatizing. +/- 20% in humidity and they know, and so will you hah

Most Gibson's that come to the store have to be worked on before they hit the floor. Compare that to a few of the CV Squiers that had to be touched over the course of a year. Fender isn't the best for that either in any case, but they certainly surpass the Gibson setups. Musicman and Godin's are almost always mint when they arrive.

I will agree Gibson uses alot of nice materials, even if acquired illegally. Also keep in mind that the LP customs DO NOT have ebony on them, but are Richlite instead. I have not noticed a significant difference between the 'production' 'custom shop' stuff and the regular Gibson USA stuff in terms of overall build quality...better setup however!.Keep in mind I've only ever had a few ES-335's and one LP Custom out of the box as we don't normally stock LP Customs, so take that with a grain of salt. I am not counting LP's that have come in for repair as well as that can be more of a factor of care/ abuse rather than Gibson's doing.

In regards to OP: Finding the guitar you LOVE, THEN going finding the exact used one is not always the best bet. IF you can try it out before you may be in luck, but as mentioned the same model and year can play vastly different. Play play play and look for the subtleties in each guitar. And there's nothing wrong with a repaired headstock, its even stronger than stock and usually knocks off a few bills.

Good luck on the search! Regardless of my bash on Gibson QC, a good fresh and nicely setup LP is still a wicked guitar!

 

[Bludave]

Re: Best way to go about buying a LP

One thing I look for is a loud resonant acoustic property. I'll walk down the line of Gibsons and strum them with a pick while they're hanging. If they sound dead and plucky, I go to the next one. I only try out the ones that ring acoustically loud.

It's generally true that the higher the price, the better the guitar, but not always. I've owned and played plenty of standard production Gibsons that have the same magic as a CS Historic model. Sometimes, a combination of wood and hardware comes together nicely, and sometimes it's dead as a door nail.

Bingo. I do the same. When I look at buying a guitar even before plugging it in I sit and play it. If it has a nice resonant sound then I plug it in and see what she sounds like. But for the most part all the electronics if you don't like em you can change them. The guitar has to be comfortable in your hand and needs to be setup reasonably well. That in itself can be very frustrating. When you go to Sam Ash or Guitar center most if the problems that I have seen are a poor setup. For the life of me I don't understand how they can hang those guitars up and it seems like all they did was take it out if the box, tune it and hang it. How do you expect to sell a guitar if it don't play right?

 

[beaubrummels]

Re: Best way to go about buying a LP

As someone who has worked in a music store for years and have seen/ played piles of Gibsons coming through, I can honestly say that you are wrong. Gibson's quality control is terrible in comparison to the other companies. Easily the #1 brand we send back because something is wrong with it.

That's very interesting to me. I guess things have changed over time. When I bought my first Les Paul in 1994, I played a 1960's, a 1970's, a 1980's and a new 1990's off the shelf and I'll be damned if they didn't all sound nearly the same, only the older they were the worse the frets and intonation was. So I just bought the new one, at the time. That experience playing Les Pauls of each era left me with the impression that Gibson was the most consistent guitar made, certainly compared to Fender where I played 7 Strats, none of which sounded similar. I even own 3 Strats now and none of them work as a backup for the other because they are too different in sound. I even tried replacing electronics to make them sound similar, but nothing doing.

It's good to know what's happened to Gibson before I sink any more money into a high-end guitar with them. I will say, though, I bought a couple Melody Makers recently, and a low-end SG and I've been impressed with how much better (sound, intonation and setup-wise) and playable the lower-end instruments seem to be. They are not go-to primary players, but they will function well as a backup at a gig, and they work well as an inexpensive test bed for wiring and pickup experiments.

 

[Kamanda~SD]

Re: Best way to go about buying a LP

That's very interesting to me. I guess things have changed over time. When I bought my first Les Paul in 1994, I played a 1960's, a 1970's, a 1980's and a new 1990's off the shelf and I'll be damned if they didn't all sound nearly the same, only the older they were the worse the frets and intonation was. So I just bought the new one, at the time. That experience playing Les Pauls of each era left me with the impression that Gibson was the most consistent guitar made, certainly compared to Fender where I played 7 Strats, none of which sounded similar. I even own 3 Strats now and none of them work as a backup for the other because they are too different in sound. I even tried replacing electronics to make them sound similar, but nothing doing.

It's good to know what's happened to Gibson before I sink any more money into a high-end guitar with them. I will say, though, I bought a couple Melody Makers recently, and a low-end SG and I've been impressed with how much better (sound, intonation and setup-wise) and playable the lower-end instruments seem to be. They are not go-to primary players, but they will function well as a backup at a gig, and they work well as an inexpensive test bed for wiring and pickup experiments.

Certainly it did used to be the other way around! Fender has certainly gotten more consistent and Gibson unfortunately has gone the other way. Anyone who comes into my shop SHOULD be able to believe that Gibson QC is good because we send all the bad one's back, as most stores do but some are just too lazy (Gibson's distributor in Canada is actually very good about returns).

Another sad story regarding Gibson, but more so about lazy music store chain employees:

A good friend and ex-bandmate of mine recently got a LP studio bought for him for his birthday by his girlfriend. Obviously he's pretty stoked and brings it in to me for a setup with his strings/ tuning/ etc. Well unfortunately I notice his neck is slightly twisted, so its impossible to have consistent radius action with the TOM bridge. Since this is an issue that will only get worse with time, I suggest he brings it back and get it swapped out (once again, Yorkville is very good with this stuff and would exchange it no problem once evaluated). So he goes back to the store where he bought it (There's only 2 'chains' in Canada so you can make a guess) and you know what they tell him "Its twisting IN YOUR FAVOUR, so I wouldn't worry about it." How ****ing lazy is that? I know for a fact the exchange process easy with no loss to the business (warranty issue), this was just an issue of laziness. Sad.
My boss offered to send it back on his behalf (he'd have to pay shipping since he didn't buy it through us but whatever). Unfortunately between it being a gift and him being a dummy about gear warranty issues (I won't get into the issue he had with his Orange amp and took a 50% loss on) he still has a twisted neck LP that is almost out of warranty. Give it a good handful of years and he will have to sink alot more money into it to keep it in playing condition.

sorry for the rant, just thought it was close enough to include in this thread. Not as much a Gibson issue as the STORE, but goes to show that you still got to be careful because store employees are not always the last line of QC like they should.

 

[voggin]

Re: Best way to go about buying a LP

I remember years ago (cue late 70s soundtrack) I was a kid, and bought a cheapo Mann Japanese les paul copy from a local music store. I thought I was going to leave with it. The guy said, no, come back in a couple of days. I want to tweak it and do some work on the setup.

That was a crummy, $250 electric in 79 or 80. And the store still went to the effort to make sure everything was good (or, with a guitar like that, as good as it could be) before giving it to a customer. And a 12 year old kid, at that.

Gibson ( or whoever) makes a tidy profit on the guitars it sells to stores. And stores then get to mark up that cost before they sell to me. I really do expect a store to include a setup as part of the purchase price of a guitar. The thing comes from Nashville or Corona or Seoul on ships or trucks in God knows what kind of weather before it gets to the shop, in my case in western Canada. I don't expect it to be perfect out of the box, but I always think back to the Dude in the mom and pop who took out his files and screwdrivers for a 12 year old brat before he'd let me leave with a budget guitar.

I've never bought a guitar online, but if I did (I've been pretty tempted: those US year end sales are amazing, and I'm only an hour from a UPS in Montana) I'd factor in a setup in the cost.

 

[Bludave]

Re: Best way to go about buying a LP

I think the age old advice stands here as well, if not more, than anywhere - try as many as you can before you part with cash. The one you want will speak to you in a way that the others don't

That is always excellent advice. Go play a bunch and go home with the one that feels right & sounds right in your hands... Definitely do not buy online!

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Best way to go about buying a LP

I've been pretty critical of Gibson's QC over the years. I've owned a pretty good stable of guitars and the PRS, ESP, Music Man, etc brands just KILLED Gibson in regards to fit & finish, out-of-the-box setup, etc.

But I recently decided that I wanted another LP and played every one that came through my local shop over a period of months. Then I found the one that spoke to me. A very heavy, non-chambered Standard with the fat 50s neck. I HATE big necks and heavy guitars. My lightweight, flawless Music Man Steve Morse Y2D seems like a surgical scalpel compared to the big, blunt-force hammer LP Standard. HOWEVER... that LP has THE tone that I'm looking for when I want to play old Leppard, ACDC, Thin Lizzy, The Darkness, Gary Moore, Bonamassa, etc. I love it dearly already (had it less than a month) and bought a heavy duty iSeries SKB case for it immediately.

At any rate... I concur with what others have said here... PLAY as many LPs as you can get your hands on. I find that the brands that I mentioned as being excellent (PRS, EBMM, Anderson, Suhr, ESP, etc) are MUCH more consistently excellent than Gibsons are. But sometimes... I need a hammer instead of a scalpel. :banana:

 

[Petie]

Re: Best way to go about buying a LP

When I got my Traditional, I went to a store and tried every one they had until I found my baby. I chronicled it on my blog. Here's an edited version:

I had a few Les Paul requirements: I needed a relatively standard-sounding one with mahogany body, maple top, a fixed bridge and a regular control layout of two volumes, two tones and a pickup selector. Henry from Sky Music explained that the best option for me was the Les Paul Traditional, because it’s what people think of when they think ‘Gibson Les Paul.’ The current Les Paul Standard is a very different guitar to its original 50s incarnation, especially with its 2012 overhaul: the compound radius fretboard and chambered body are modern features that aren’t associated with the old school Les Paul vibe. So with that in mind I tried pretty much every Traditional in the store, including some with utterly incredible figured maple tops. There was an Iced Tea which looked positively luminous, and a Honey Burst with a very tight, symmetrical flame. A Wine Red was rather pretty too. So I got to testing.

The luminous Iced Tea (that’s it above, although photos don’t do it justice) looked and sounded great, and the neck was very speedy. But the tone had a sort of compressed vibe which would make it a great rock or metal guitar, especially for playing lead. And that’s not what I was looking for in a Les Paul. I needed something with plenty of dynamic range. Something a little edgy. So as much as it hurt me, because it looked so good and sounded great in certain contexts, this was not the one.

Next up I tried the flamey Honey Burst (above). This was a nice guitar. A good amount of edge and separation between the notes, and some nice shifting harmonic overtones during two-string bends. I put it on the Maybe Pile. But I made sure it was close by just so I could gaze it it, because it looked so good.

For comparison I noticed another Honey Burst on the wall, this time with an asymmetrical flame. That’s it second from the back in the top row in the photo above. The bass side was far more flamey and consistent than the treble side. I gave it the open-position chord test, the muted chug test, the bluesy lead test, the complex jazz chord test, and it just sounded incredible. It wasn’t too full in the low end, it was clear in the highs, and the mids sounded like caramel. I put it on the Maybe Pile.

I tried a few others, including a Heritage Cherry Sunburst which sounded very scooped, and a Desert Burst that was nice, but none quite hit me the way that half-flamed Honey Burst did. One sounded great playing low chords but didn’t quite do it for me in the higher registers. One was a little too limited in the high end. Another Cherry Sunburst on the wall just gave me a bad vibe after one note – just too scoopy. The Wine Red sounded and felt great – definitely one of the best guitars in the store – but it didn’t quite top the Honey Burst with the funky half flame, half I-don’t-know-what finish. I went back and plugged the Honey Burst in again and played around some more. Hmm. Nice. Very nice. But then when I put it back, I noticed that hanging next to the Honey Burst was a Gold Top Traditional.

I plugged it in. Whoa. The Gold Top had a similar response in the treble and bass regions to the Honey Burst. It had good dynamic range, probably not as much as the Burst but still very decent. It sounded edgy and cutting, and held its tuning very well. But the midrange seemed a little more focused in the upper end, which made it sound a little bit barky, rather than the chunk and crunch of the Honey Burst. It reminded me quite a lot of Paul Reed Smith’s own 1958 Les Paul Gold Top, which I got to check out in person at a NAMM party a few years ago. It sounded a little bit Mick Ronson too. But then I looked over at the Honey Burst again. I could hear it asking me to give it another try. “C’mon, dude, you’ve already plugged me in twice,” it said. “You haven’t done that with any of the others. That’s gotta mean something, yeah?” “Shhhhut up,” I whispered out of the side of my mouth. “Guitars can’t talk. And you’re making me look bad. I mean, one side of your top is all flamey and the other is almost plain. And besides,” I mumbled, a little louder, “The dentist who eventually comes and buys that luminous Iced Tea one will laugh at me. And probably judge my teeth.” The guy at the counter looked up for a second. I think he heard me. “Yeah, but you can’t put me down,” the half-flame said, a little more emphatically and confidently than I expected. “And you know I’ve got more character than all those other axes. I have the kind of distinct look where, 30 years from now, Gibson will want to make copies of me and sell them to dentists.” “Well yeah,” I conceded. “And you do sound the most Les Paul-y out of all of the guitars I’ve tried today. I mean… really… you’re the …” I gasped. It was so obvious now. “You’re The One!” Music swelled up, fireflies danced in the air, and we ran towards each other in slow motion, twirling, laughing, giggling, entwined in each other’s arms and necks and nuts. Wait, scratch that last part. I don’t mean scratch it, I just mean scratch it. Ah hell, you know what I mean. So now I’m a proud Les Paul owner. Eternal thanks to Henry at Sky Music for helping me to find the right Les Paul for me, instead of just the prettiest of the bunch. I look forward to many years of churning out third rate Al DiMeola licks, second rate Led Zeppelin riffs, and first rate Peter Hodgson songs.

And then I was so confident in the guitar's acoustic properties and innate awesomeness that I, y'know, Sethed it real good.

 

[Red_Label]

Re: Best way to go about buying a LP

When I got my Traditional, I went to a store and tried every one they had until I found my baby. I chronicled it on my blog. Here's an edited version:

Cool story bro! (I mean that.) Mine was fairly similar. The one that I ended-up taking home (2011 Standard I believe) wasn't the one that I'd been staring at for a couple of months. It wasn't the lightest or had the smallest neck (both traits I tend to like). But it had THAT sound! And still does! She ain't hard on the eyes either...