BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

F

Farkus

New member
Well, to make a long story short my BF Bandmaster is going to be retired from the rotation. She popped a tube on me and ended up in the amp hospital...thanks to Jeff Seal and the other guys over at Speaker Surgeon I have her back in working order (thank the Lord they're just down the road and the price for what they do is very reasonable).

The deal is I've spent over $500 bucks over the last year on this amp; now don't get me wrong I fully expect to pay some bucks to keep a 40 year old amp jamming, I just want to give it (and my wallet) a rest for awhile. I'm looking to replace it with something tonally similar...I'll keep it to jam on some but won't drive it hard for hours at a time.

So dudes, this is the kind of tone that I like for my cleans, the BF Bandmaster tone. Give me some suggestions as to what I should be looking into...I'd like something in the same tonal ballpark but it doesn't have to be a Fender. I'm being purposefully vague b/c I'd like to amass a few suggestions and go from there.

Many thanks!
 
Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

There are very few amps that can compare to the tone of an old Fender. I suggest you look into an Allen or maybe one of the models by SDG for starters. However I have to be honest...if you've dumped $500 into a BF Bandmaster it should have had so much work by this point that it'll be rockin' for another 40+ years...

What all have you had done and what all do you need???
 
Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

the guy who invented fire said:
There are very few amps that can compare to the tone of an old Fender. I suggest you look into an Allen or maybe one of the models by SDG for starters. However I have to be honest...if you've dumped $500 into a BF Bandmaster it should have had so much work by this point that it'll be rockin' for another 40+ years...

What all have you had done and what all do you need???
Click to expand...

Well all the filter caps had been changed prior to me getting it. This last go round, while it was in the shop, the resistors were replaced as the old ones had drifted from spec (the fellas at the shop felt these should have been replaced when the filter caps were changed to start with). The 'vibrato' had been intermittent but seems to be working now. They cleaned up some 'messy' soldier joints, as well. All in all, it SHOULD be good to go; I just am a bit ansy about it. I have put more into it than it cost me to start with IIRC. As a result, I'm thinking of a newer build (with hopefully fewer part failures).

To be perfectly honest myself, it actually sounds a little bit 'colder' now, too. That being said, I think it's much more like the amp is supposed to sound NOS and I'm going to have to work with it some to burn in the new 6L6's. I want to be clear though, the guys at Speaker Surgeon do outstanding work and did exactly as I asked, which was to repair this thing and get it back to stock; I'm just sick of the bills.

So maybe it will run the next 40 years, maybe it won't. Who knows? I'd just like to get an amp to cover these tones so at least I'll have a backup if my BM fails again (and no colon humor from the peanut gallery, lol).
 
Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

Try to find a Holland amp - Model Little Jimi

Best of the best but hard to find.

Don't get the Gib, it's not worth it.
 
Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

Ya know, a BF Bandmaster is a little bit of a different beast...it's a BF Fender w/o reverb, non reerb BF Fender amps have a little less gain than their reverb loaded brothers and due to that they have a slightly different tone/vibe.

If you want a back up thats the SAME thing I suggest another BF Bandmaster if you want CLOSE a Bandmaster, Bandmaster Reverb, Tremolux, Vibrolux maybe even a Bassman or something based on one of these amps...here are a few amps that while are not part for part clones of a Bandmaster are based on amps that are similar enough I think you'd bahappy with them...

Allen Encore (based on a Vibrolux Reverb)
Allen Accomplice (based on a Deluxe Reverb)
Allen Old Flame (Based on a Super Reverb)
Marsh Vibrolux Reverb copy
Marsh Deluxe Reverb copy
SDG Vintage Reverb (basedon a Super Reverb)
SDG Myo'on
Port City 50 (based on a BF Bassman head)

There are lots of other choices out there but these came to mind right now...a lot of your choices are pretty high dollar...Burno amps and so on.

Truth is if you want that BF Bandmaster tone a BF Bandmaster is the easiest and likely the cheepest way out!

If you;re has had a cap job, new tubes and been cleaned up it'll likely be ready for another 40+ years but a spare is always a good idea. YOu need to decide if you want a spare thats the same thing or another amp that coudl be used in place of the Bandmaster that might not be the same thing but be close enough to get you by then decide hat your budget is then go shopping!
 
Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

Did Fender reissue the Pro-Reverb? If so I'd get one of those. Or a nice silverface non master volume one. Lew
 
Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

Lewguitar said:
Did Fender reissue the Pro-Reverb? If so I'd get one of those. Or a nice silverface non master volume one. Lew
Click to expand...

There was a 90's Pro Reverb but it has little in common wiht a real Pro reverb.

a Pro Reverb is a great amp, if you're not stuck on a head its a great way to go...
 
Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

500 bucks? Does that include the price of the amp? If you want better cleans and more volume, go for a BF/SF Bassman or Dual Showman head...the BM is a little wimpy anyway at 35 watts.
 
Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

the guy who invented fire said:
Ya know, a BF Bandmaster is a little bit of a different beast...it's a BF Fender w/o reverb, non reerb BF Fender amps have a little less gain than their reverb loaded brothers and due to that they have a slightly different tone/vibe.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know. I was just saying that it sounded warmer before.


the guy who invented fire said:
If you;re has had a cap job, new tubes and been cleaned up it'll likely be ready for another 40+ years but a spare is always a good idea. YOu need to decide if you want a spare thats the same thing or another amp that coudl be used in place of the Bandmaster that might not be the same thing but be close enough to get you by then decide hat your budget is then go shopping!
Click to expand...

Well this is what my post was about...I'm looking for something with a similar flavor to be my new primary amp for cleans. I'll have the BM for a backup only situation. I appreciate your listing those models and I'll look into them.

And es350, the cost of parts and repairs in the last 6 months has been $500 alone. My point is that I could be putting some of this cash into a new amp; I'm not saying that it's an unreasonable amount to get this one up and going though as they're not making more of these.
 
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Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

500 bucks is outrageous for caps, some preamp resistors, and reflowing the solder joints. Find somebody else...that work is so simple, you could have done it yourself for less than 50$ and I can't see that work costing any more than 150-200 bucks max (unless you started out with a basket case). No, they aren't making any more, but there are plenty of other BF/SF amps around; if it ain't making it, cut your losses, sell it, and get one that does.
 
Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

ES350 said:
500 bucks is outrageous for caps, some preamp resistors, and reflowing the solder joints. Find somebody else...that work is so simple, you could have done it yourself for less than 50$ and I can't see that work costing any more than 150-200 bucks max (unless you started out with a basket case). No, they aren't making any more, but there are plenty of other BF/SF amps around; if it ain't making it, cut your losses, sell it, and get one that does.
Click to expand...

This gentleman just does not understand the skill that Jeff Seal uses and that we should pay for when Jeff work's his special magic on BF amps.

Pay what it is worth for the service and skill.



I have taken the liberty of showing some of Jeff gear here
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/JeffSeal/100_1241.jpg

And these.....
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/JeffSeal/AmpFest2005002.jpg
 
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Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

Farkus said:
This last go round, while it was in the shop, the resistors were replaced as the old ones had drifted from spec (the fellas at the shop felt these should have been replaced when the filter caps were changed to start with). QUOTE]

The resistors your tech is speaking of are the 100K plate resistors; the older carbon comp resistors drifted upward in value to somewhere in the 120K - 130K range. This drift raises the gain slightly in the preamp stages of the amp, giving it a little more bite. I NEVER changed these resitors unless they were noisy (sounds like bacon frying) and then I would replace them with 120K resistors to preserve the tone of the amp.

A lot of the tonal qualities of the Bandmaster comes from its output transformer. If you notice, it is half the size of a Bassman or Super Reverb transformer; it's primary impedance is also quite different. This transformer was designed to have some deliberate losses in it which all add to the amp's unique tone.

These amps are also very sensitive to a recap: it seems to be common practice these days to replace power supply cap with the next available size larger. In a Bandmaster or Vibrolux, this will make the bass fart out really bad where it should be warming up and the amp becomes very sterile at lower volumes.

I'm with ES350...$500 should have bought you a LOT more!
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Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

Stratman said:
This gentleman just does not understand the skill that Jeff Seal uses and that we should pay for when Jeff work's his special magic on BF amps.

Pay what it is worth for the service and skill.



I have taken the liberty of showing some of Jeff gear here
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/JeffSeal/100_1241.jpg

And these.....
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/JeffSeal/AmpFest2005002.jpg
Click to expand...


My 17 year old daughter can do the work described for this Bandmaster, and do it well...there is no pixie dust 'special magic' in replacing filter caps and preamp resistors. Sorry...it's BS. BTW, what does a room full of cheesy Explorers and amps of various types have to do with tech skills? I guess it's a Tone Quest thing...'nuff said.
 
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Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

ES350 said:
500 bucks? Does that include the price of the amp? If you want better cleans and more volume, go for a BF/SF Bassman or Dual Showman head...the BM is a little wimpy anyway at 35 watts.
Click to expand...

agreed, i just got a dual showman that continues to exceed my expectations, and i loves me some bassman
 
Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

ES350 said:
My 17 year old daughter can do the work described for this Bandmaster, and do it well...there is no pixie dust 'special magic' in replacing filter caps and preamp resistors. Sorry...it's BS. BTW, what does a room full of cheesy Explorers and amps of various types have to do with tech skills? I guess it's a Tone Quest thing...'nuff said.
Click to expand...

Jonny Rap !

You are not correct in your description nor knowedge of current prices being charged for repairing amplifiers.

Maybe your 17 years old daughter, as you suggested, should go to work and bring down the price for her services and do it well - no pixie dust etc, as you suggested.

I'd buy her services for a dollar and that's no BS ....
 
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Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

Stratman said:
This gentleman just does not understand the skill that Jeff Seal uses and that we should pay for when Jeff work's his special magic on BF amps.

Pay what it is worth for the service and skill.



I have taken the liberty of showing some of Jeff gear here
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/JeffSeal/100_1241.jpg

And these.....
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a336/JeffSeal/AmpFest2005002.jpg
Click to expand...

Agreed! I just had my Marshall retubed and the guy who did it gave me a deal and it was 140$. So when you consider most techs have a "bench" charge of 75$ just to look at the amp, then trouble shoot the problem and then repair it. I don't think 500$ for a few repairs on an amp like this is unreasonable. Usually when I bring my amp in, it runs about 150$ for the retube & a general check over.

But as far as replacing it. What I would look for if you are looking for cleans is a silverface Dual Showman Reverb or a Non master Twin. As long as you don't mind dealing with the weight of the Twin it is one of the cleanest loudes amps I have ever used. As TGWIF stated the "Reverb" adds to the gain stage pretty effectively. The Dual Showman Reverb is essentially a Twin in a head configuration. Depending on the year the came with either a 2 12" bottom or a 2 15" bottom( might be one 15 I forget). Theses things have some serious bottom and the amps are loud and clean!
The other option is to go with a Bassman RI. Good amps, but not in the same league as the Silvers or blackface amps. Quite honestly the newer Fenders will probably be as unreliable as your BM is. The older amps were made better, and its really just the parts that are wearing out.
 
Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

Yikes fellas, no need to get touchy.

Actually, I could have done the work, but then I don't usually work on amps. Sometimes you have to know your limitations. I WILL learn how to do this type of stuff myself; I've been wiring guitars for years but I've become so interested in amps lately that I think I'll delve into it more. But that's beside the point.

I'm looking into some options right now and thanks for the opinions. Sounds like the 'Twin' in a head version might be right down my alley.
 
Re: BF Bandmaster replacement...chime in!

With $500 of work an old blackface should keep going for another few decades, tubes aside. I don't think it's an unreasonable number either for a top notch guy to go through & basically rebuild the amp.

Aside from buying another old Fender... I'm not sure what else would touch it for tone & sound identical. And buying another old amp could be another money pit... if you can do the work, or at least some of it yourself great. Otherwise...

Vibro-King?

Get a reissue blackface & have it converted to old spec?

How about a Vox, Hiwatt or something entirely different?
 
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