Blending piezo with passive pickup - possible?

I have the Fishman Powerchip in two of my guitars and one without it. All you need is a three-way switch to move from the piezo to the passive or to select both. The Powerchip is great because it adds smart switching. Meaning if you use a mono cable, the piezo and passive are blended in a mono signal, and a stereo cable will smartly split the two signals.

Does the piezo have a battery and a preamp? The Powerchip will need 9 volts to operate.
 
Securb said:
I have the Fishman Powerchip in two of my guitars and one without it. All you need is a three-way switch to move from the piezo to the passive or to select both. The Powerchip is great because it adds smart switching. Meaning if you use a mono cable, the piezo and passive are blended in a mono signal, and a stereo cable will smartly split the two signals.

Does the piezo have a battery and a preamp? The Powerchip will need 9 volts to operate.
Click to expand...

freefrog said:
You'd need something like this: https://www.fishman.com/portfolio/powerchip-2/
Click to expand...

Thanks, folks. That looks great. The piezo is currently passive.

So there’s not a passive solution and this looks like the smallest kind of solution that works well to blend, right?

Without that and a normal three way switch I could choose one or the other but not both, right?
 
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Well, piezo transducers require an output impedance of 1M or more, if memory serves me. Even if one uses a single 1M volume pot, the impedance will be lowered by the passive PU's with their low resistance once the piezo in parallel with them... That's why a preamp seems necessary, yes. At least I think so.

Good luck in your experiments!
 
freefrog said:
Well, piezo transducers require an output impedance of 1M or more, if memory serves me. Even if one uses a single 1M volume pot, the impedance will be lowered by the passive PU's with their low resistance once the piezo in parallel with them... That's why a preamp seems necessary, yes. At least I think so.

Good luck in your experiments!
Click to expand...

Thanks!
 
The piezo and passive on my Mandocello are wired to different pots, but both share the same jack. I can blend them together as I wish. If I put in a toggle, it really would not change anything. FWIW, there is no preamp on my Mandocellos piezo.
 
Securb said:
The piezo and passive on my Mandocello are wired to different pots, but both share the same jack. I can blend them together as I wish. If I put in a toggle, it really would not change anything. FWIW, there is no preamp on my Mandocellos piezo.
Click to expand...

That’s helpful, thanks!
 
Securb said:
The piezo and passive on my Mandocello are wired to different pots, but both share the same jack. I can blend them together as I wish. If I put in a toggle, it really would not change anything. FWIW, there is no preamp on my Mandocellos piezo.
Click to expand...

FWIW, the logics behind my answers was that a too low impedance would / should alter the bass response of a piezo transducer. It's not always a problem, depending on the specs and voicing of the instrument considered and its transducers... but a guitar with P90 and piezo intuitively appears to me as a case of conflictual collaboration between pickups.

Now, nothing forbids to Blille to try a simple passive blender. If it works, my intuition will have been wrong, as it happens. :-)
 
freefrog said:
FWIW, the logics behind my answers was that a too low impedance would / should alter the bass response of a piezo transducer. It's not always a problem, depending on the specs and voicing of the instrument considered and its transducers... but a guitar with P90 and piezo intuitively appears to me as a case of conflictual collaboration between pickups.

Now, nothing forbids to Blille to try a simple passive blender. If it works, my intuition will have been wrong, as it happens. :-)
Click to expand...

That makes sense. I tried a passive blender in the past with pedals and it didn’t go too well but I may still have it around.

The downside of blending is that you can’t add an IR to just the piezo signal. The best may be to have a stereo output jack and decide to blend or not outside of the guitar depending on the application.
 
I hardly use the stereo option, but when I do it is nice to have. I mainly use my piezo guitars to simulate acoustic parts live.
 
This all is wrong

I have paasive piezo pickups in three solid body guitars

Each has an independent
volume piezo has a 1M
The mag has 500k
Wired like independent LP volume knobs

Two only have one output jack
Both feed to the same jack

The thrird has a switch for combining them to a single jack
Thats how the Dean Shire came

The other two are Ehdwuld branded guitars that i built



The piezo bridge is a Kiash off Amazon
$25

Comes without the mini jack on the end of the wiring
I have one of those as well on my other Ehdwuld branded guitar
 
Last edited:
My Brian Moore uses an active RMC piezo system, though 1 stereo jack. You use a special Y cable which goes to 2 mono outputs. There is no way to blend it from the guitar into 1 mono cable. This works OK, though, as I usually wouldn't want the piezo to have the same signal train as the passive humbuckers.
 
Blille said:
That makes sense. I tried a passive blender in the past with pedals and it didn’t go too well but I may still have it around.

The downside of blending is that you can’t add an IR to just the piezo signal. The best may be to have a stereo output jack and decide to blend or not outside of the guitar depending on the application.
Click to expand...

Yep, pedals with different impedances are a problem with passive blenders. I've struggled with this issue when trying an ABY box with my GR-20 guitar synth: most of my multi-effects for electric guitar would become impossible to hear once passively in parallel with the synth. Only a cheapo VOX Stomplab would deliver the required output level... :-)
 
ehdwuld said:
This all is wrong

I have paasive piezo pickups in three solid body guitars

Each has an independent
volume piezo has a 1M
The mag has 500k
Wired like independent LP volume knobs

Two only have one output jack
Both feed to the same jack

The thrird has a switch for combining them to a single jack
Thats how the Dean Shire came

The other two are Ehdwuld branded guitars that i built



The piezo bridge is a Kiash off Amazon
$25

Comes without the mini jack on the end of the wiring
I have one of those as well on my other Ehdwuld branded guitar
Click to expand...

Ah, the pleasure to try to help other people for free and to end qualified as "wrong"... :-P

And what if luck had simply been on your side ? :-)

Looks like it was not so successful for some other people: https://music-electronics-forum.com/...zo?view=thread

And either all these people on Music-Electronics are wrong too (albeit I see among them a famous engineer, a pickups maker, an amp maker, a well known luthier), either piezo transducers can be a problem. That's potentially why preamps for piezo exist, AFAIK. They wouldn't have been designed otherwise, don't you think? :-)

Now and actually, the possibility of a successful pairing, depending on the precise instruments and parts involved, is what has made me prudent in my previous posts above.

If you have benefited of this possibility, I'm simply glad for you and I thank you for sharing a precise depiction of the related circuit + components allowing that. :-)

But "wrong" might have been a word a bit... definitive, no ? ;-)

@Blille: as we don't know what is the piezo in the guitar of your friend, here is another discussion potentially interesting when it comes to potential issues with piezo + passive (like those explained in the answer 4) and possible solutions : https://www.diystompboxes.com/smffor...topic=114300.0
 
Last edited:
freefrog said:
Yep, pedals with different impedances are a problem with passive blenders. I've struggled with this issue when trying an ABY box with my GR-20 guitar synth: most of my multi-effects for electric guitar would become impossible to hear once passively in parallel with the synth. Only a cheapo VOX Stomplab would deliver the required output level... :-)
Click to expand...

In my case I’ve found keeping an LS-2 around pays off. I’ve used it for a bunch of things including this. But I don’t have a guitar synth :D

freefrog said:
Ah, the pleasure to try to help other people for free and to end qualified as "wrong"... :-P

And what if luck had simply been on your side ? :-)

Looks like it was not so successful for some other people: https://music-electronics-forum.com/...zo?view=thread

And either all these people on Music-Electronics are wrong too (albeit I see among them a famous engineer, a pickups maker, an amp maker, a well known luthier), either piezo transducers can be a problem. That's potentially why preamps for piezo exist, AFAIK. They wouldn't have been designed otherwise, don't you think? :-)

Now and actually, the possibility of a successful pairing, depending on the precise instruments and parts involved, is what has made me prudent in my previous posts above.

If you have benefited of this possibility, I'm simply glad for you and I thank you for sharing a precise depiction of the related circuit + components allowing that. :-)

But "wrong" might have been a word a bit... definitive, no ? ;-)

@Blille: as we don't know what is the piezo in the guitar of your friend, here is another discussion potentially interesting when it comes to potential issues with piezo + passive (like those explained in the answer 4) and possible solutions : https://www.diystompboxes.com/smffor...topic=114300.0
Click to expand...

Appreciated. The difference of impedance happens in some frequencies that may not bother everyone depending on the mix. Based on my experience with pedals which were with smaller impedance differences and that it’s not my guitar I’m not going to recommend drilling the guitar without being 200% sure.
 
Mincer said:
My Brian Moore uses an active RMC piezo system, though 1 stereo jack. You use a special Y cable which goes to 2 mono outputs. There is no way to blend it from the guitar into 1 mono cable. This works OK, though, as I usually wouldn't want the piezo to have the same signal train as the passive humbuckers.
Click to expand...

I think that’s what I’ll recommend. Just swap the output jack, route the piezo there and use a y at the end so he can use the piezo with IRs.
 
freefrog said:
Ah, the pleasure to try to help other people for free and to end qualified as "wrong"... :-P

And what if luck had simply been on your side ? :-)

Looks like it was not so successful for some other people: https://music-electronics-forum.com/...zo?view=thread

And either all these people on Music-Electronics are wrong too (albeit I see among them a famous engineer, a pickups maker, an amp maker, a well known luthier), either piezo transducers can be a problem. That's potentially why preamps for piezo exist, AFAIK. They wouldn't have been designed otherwise, don't you think? :-)

Now and actually, the possibility of a successful pairing, depending on the precise instruments and parts involved, is what has made me prudent in my previous posts above.

If you have benefited of this possibility, I'm simply glad for you and I thank you for sharing a precise depiction of the related circuit + components allowing that. :-)

But "wrong" might have been a word a bit... definitive, no ? ;-)

@Blille: as we don't know what is the piezo in the guitar of your friend, here is another discussion potentially interesting when it comes to potential issues with piezo + passive (like those explained in the answer 4) and possible solutions : https://www.diystompboxes.com/smffor...topic=114300.0
Click to expand...

I am sorry if you are offended
maybe i chose the words wrong

You have obviously never done it before.
Therefore you really shouldn't speak with authority

I have "got lucky" three different times now

So i would think that i have some knowledge on the subject.

Listen more grasshopper
Fight that urge to use internet as source of research

There are many fools in the world
And they all have blog accounts
 
I have been looking at putting a piezo disc in the neck pocket of a strat or tele

a groove in the pocket floor to prevent crushing the wires

Route into the neck pickup pocket

Add a volume and tone or just a volume

I am curious

I too have seen the blog posts on the Tele Forum
Where there were mixed results
 
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