Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

Evan Skopp

SDUGF Founder
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Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

100 watts into a 3" speaker it is then!
 
Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

Oh, to once again enjoy the innocence of youth...and have all of my hearing.

I'm about 80% deaf in the treble frequncies and have constant hissing and ringing in my ears, in part from years of cranked 80 watt Twin Reverbs and 50 watt Marshalls and yes, even 100 watt Marshalls.

Why? Because it sounds like this: (Hits huge power chord and then a bunch of fast widdley diddley guitar licks way up the neck...)

Jeff Beck now often gigs with a pair of 15 watt amps. I now gig with a pair of 20 watt amps.
 
Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

My mind was blown when I read the volume differences. Makes me want a 100w head.
 
Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

Thanks guys

remember: use hearing protection.
 
Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

I posted a blog comment (I agree if you are playing an open air back party with 200 people and a mosh pit that ya, everyone plays half stacks and I would want one, coming from my 212PPC and orange thunderverb50; ideally I would want an iso cab silent sister and a 200 watt thunderverb though for gigs to preserve my awesome dynamic tone ;) )

my blog comment:

The highest permissible noise exposure for the UNPROTECTED ear is 115 dB for 15 MINUTES/day. Any noise above 140 dB IS NOT PERMITTED.

Habitual exposure to noise above 85 dB will cause a gradual hearing loss in a significant number of individuals, and louder noises will accelerate this damage. For unprotected ears, the allowed exposure time decreases by ONE HALF FOR EACH 5 dB INCREASE in the average noise level. For instance, exposure is limited to 8 hr at 90 dB, 4 hr at 95 dB, and 2 hr at 100 dB.

the typical rock band is at 115dB. High frequencies cut through earplugs. so if you are trying to crank that 100 WATTER HALF STACK constantly to get the "sweet spot", even with earplugs slowly say goodbye to your most important sound gear, your ears! ;)

I prefer 50 watts or less so I can get the cranked tone AND preserve my ears; fortunately my amp is a thunderverb 50 that has a built in attenuator. I think 50 watts is more than enough, and when I get a good gig and want good non-solid-state tone, the sound guy that always tells me to "turn down" anyway is not complaining that the guitar is leaking into the vocal mic, drum mic, bass, mic...
 
A fair amount of pseudologic in this post.

the typical rock band is at 115dB. High frequencies cut through earplugs. so if you are trying to crank that 100 WATTER HALF STACK constantly to get the "sweet spot", even with earplugs slowly say goodbye to your most important sound gear, your ears! ;)

None of the sentences in the above paragraph connect over logical lines, and the last one is a mistaken assumption based on an unworkable premise.

If you'd paid attention to the actual science section of my blog, you'd know that a 100 watt amp is only 3db louder than a 50 watt when both amps are operating at max volume.

And I'd be willing to bet that neither of us are running our amps at full volume at gigs. So at this point, any comparison of volume between our rigs is fruitless, since we're probably pushing the same amount of volume.

In other words, neither of us is going deaf, and if we are, it's probably from the cymbals.
I prefer 50 watts or less so I can get the cranked tone AND preserve my ears; fortunately my amp is a thunderverb 50 that has a built in attenuator. I think 50 watts is more than enough, and when I get a good gig and want good non-solid-state tone, the sound guy that always tells me to "turn down" anyway is not complaining that the guitar is leaking into the vocal mic, drum mic, bass, mic...

Again, if you're getting the "cranked" tone with 50 watts of the tube power, you're still waaaay too loud given your own statements.
 
Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

It depends on the gig. The problem is when people bring half stacks into a coffee shop, and then expect to be able to hear the drums and vocals. Then the little *****es complain that, "The sound sucks at that place."

Watts are more about tone than volume. It often is the cab used that sounds like crap in a given venue. 4x12 is just too much pressure for most small to medium sized clubs with low to moderately powered PAs. Think about how many speakers the PA has before selecting your cabinet for the gig.

I have no problem with high wattage amps...but I do have a problem with 4x12 cabinets at most gigs. The most versatile way to go about using a powerful amp is to get it in combo format, and then add an extension cab if needed for a venue with a powerful PA. Marshall makes their big amps as 2x12's, and they make 2x12 extension cabs. I have no idea why these are not the big sellers, and the amps that hold their value on the used market. But everyone has to go for the fricking half stack, even if they are playing against 300W PAs with two mains.
 
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Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

Fact check: no such thing as 100-watt cymbals. I looked it up.
 
Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

It depends on the gig. The problem is when people bring half stacks into a coffee shop, and then expect to be able to hear the drums and vocals. Then the little *****es complain that, "The sound sucks at that place."

Watts are more about tone than volume. It often is the cab used that sounds like crap in a given venue. 4x12 is just too much pressure for most small to medium sized clubs with low to moderately powered PAs. Think about how many speakers the PA has before selecting your cabinet for the gig.

I have no problem with high wattage amps...but I do have a problem with 4x12 cabinets at most gigs. The most versatile way to go about using a powerful amp is to get it in combo format, and then add an extension cab if needed for a venue with a powerful PA. Marshall makes their big amps as 2x12's, and they make 2x12 extension cabs. I have no idea why these are not the big sellers, and the amps that hold their value on the used market. But everyone has to go for the fricking half stack, even if they are playing against 300W PAs with two mains.

Itsabass is a soundguy, great insights here :beerchug: hard to disagree with, you gotta crank a big 100 watter a lot LOUDER to get the "sweet spot"!
 
Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

No argument here.

The tone difference in wattage is very apparent to me now that I have a Mark V. Switching between 90 and 45 watts makes a heeeuuughe difference in compression and distortion on all three channels ... but has virtually zero effect on the apparent volume. I don't actually get an appreciable volume difference until I switch down to 10W mode.

Switching from 45 to 90 W gives me more note separation, tighter riffing, and more dynamic range, regardless of how much distortion I'm using. It's more noticeable on channels 2 and 3 though - you're giving the high gain preamp a lot more room to breathe, which results in a much tighter, more accurate amp.

The key difference is usually in the low frequencies. Low frequency reproduction eats up a lot of headroom, so the lower your wattage, the more compressed and distorted your lows will be. This is why bass amps almost always have 2 to 3 times the wattage of an equivalent guitar amp - they need it to handle the lows.

As for volume:

- Like I said, almost zero difference between 90 and 45 watts
- I don't think I've ever turned the master up past noon. The amp has a lot more volume on tap if I need it. The tone changes I've described in wattage occur regardless of where the master volume is set.
- I've never had a sound guy complain about my amp being too loud (one actually told me to turn it up)
- If anything on stage is damaging my hearing, it's the $%^#ing cymbals. Gord damn those things are loud, especially when I'm two feet away from them.
 
Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

Final thought: it seems to me that the opponents of 100W amps fall into two camps:

1. People who play music that sounds best through a low-wattage amp, and incorrectly assume that ALL styles of music sound best through a low-wattage amp.

2. Bedroom theorists who've never owned anything louder than a Blues Jr.

Conversely, those who are in favour of 100W amps are usually people who gig with them on a regular basis.

In all honesty, I love low-wattage combos (in another life my main amp would be a Deluxe Reverb), but for the music I'm playing right now my Mark V half stack is ideal. You're not going to convince me otherwise. Sorry.
 
Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

I'm about 80% deaf in the treble frequncies and have constant hissing and ringing in my ears, in part from years of cranked 80 watt Twin Reverbs and 50 watt Marshalls and yes, even 100 watt Marshalls.
.

This, although I can't give percentages. And a 15-watt Blues Jr. can harm your hearing, too.
 
Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

again, I use an amp that has a built in attenuator, here is a guitarplayer article on this subject:

http://www.guitarplayer.com/article/all-about-…-amp-wattage/7818

OH, HOW WE GEAR WRITERS LOVE TO THROWAROUND the saucy old cliché that declares “size does matter.” But when it comes to amplifier wattage, we’ll discover that the smaller weapon is often more suitable for the job at hand. The myriad sizes of guitar amplifiers all have their applications, but advances in sound reproduction—partnered with increasing awareness of the detrimental effects of exposure to excessive volume—have meant that it’s a very different environment up on the stages of 2009 than it was on the stages of 1969. As such, All About Amp Wattage seeks to initiate a reality shift of sorts, to offer a clear-eyed assessment of how much power different playing situations require.

We all enjoy standing in front of a raging 100-watt full stack now and then, right? There’s nothing else quite like the windin- the-hair, thump-in-the-gut feeling of unleashing an evil riff with all that firepower— the hovering, edge-of-feedback immediacy and totally alive playing feel of it. It’s fun to consider the occasions when we might be able to justify such wattage, but let’s apply a gigging scenario that’s more like something you might encounter most nights. The average venue is a compact 80 to 120-seater club, in which your 15-watt 1x12 tube combo works so well that you may even be asked to turn it down. Every once in a while, a slightly larger booking in a 250-seat room turns up, and you briefly consider bringing a 45-watt amp but wisely decide, “No, let’s just take the opportunity to crank the little fella’.” Does it suffice? Yeah, in spades—and as if on cue, the sound guy even asks you mid-sound check to turn it down a little. The fact is, given the capabilities of modern sound-reinforcement systems— with good mixes running both in the mains and the monitors—you really don’t need any more volume than you could comfortably tolerate in a room the size of the stage you’re on, and when the aforementioned monitors are done right, you can get away with even less. In reality, the oversized amp often just leads to the heartbreak of unsatisfactory tone. It’s not just that everyone else in the room will be your friend if you use a smaller amp, but you’ll enjoy your own playing experience a lot more, too, because you’ll be able to hit that sweet spot where shimmering clean segues over into succulent distorted at the thwack of a pick. Err on the side of too large, on the other hand, and the powers that be— which usually means the sound guy or your lead vocalist—will just force you to turn down, stranding you short of the golden tone zone. If they don’t, chances are you’ll obliterate the room with excessive volume anyway, and that’s another sure-fire show spoiler. (Note that all of these considerations go double in the studio.)

But that 100-watt double stack is out there, calling to you, begging you to uncork its glowing tubes with your hot riffs… right? Sure, and for good reason. Way back in the early ’60s when rock was on the way to becoming the monster it is today, bands found themselves moving from basement clubs, to dance halls, to theaters, to stadiums, and because the P.A. systems of the day weren’t up to the task, they needed progressively bigger guitar amps to get themselves heard. Fender designed the Showman for Dick Dale, Vox came up with the AC50 and AC100 for the Beatles, and Marshall created the JTM100 for Pete Townshend. All of this was relevant 40 years ago, sure, but if you grew up with the sound of Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, or Paul Kossoff through a Marshall stack, it’s hard to get that tone—and that image—out of your head. You want the rig of doom, even if the world won’t let you play it. Of course, certain scenarios that allow, or even encourage, the use of big amps do still exist. As a rule of thumb, if you’re touring with a signed act that plays stages larger than the footprint of your house or apartment, and have got someone to carry the road cases for you, you can probably still get away with the stack. However, even many large, professional acts—Nashville artists in particular—are moving away from massive stage volume levels, running amps behind plexiglass shields or even under the stage, and monitoring everything with in-ear units. Or, if you’re a country or jazz player who needs 100 watts in order to obtain the clean headroom that 40 percent of its potential provides you, or a 7-string metal thumper who wants to project pure punch and crunch with a lot of low-end rumble, you might very well need the power. Also, the player who uses a lot of pedals to achieve overdrive and distortion, or who uses a channel-switching amp’s high-gain lead channel coupled with appropriate master volume levels to rein in output, might find a 50-watter is appropriate, and even necessary. By and large, though, the rest of us bar and club giggers can put the old dream of macho-looking amplification behind us, and embrace the new dream of muy grande tone.

In order to work toward weaning ourselves off excessive amplification, let’s take a look at how power ratings actually equate to volume. The peculiarities of the human ear and the logarithmic nature of our perceptions of volume mean that output ratings don’t correspond directly to volume levels. While a 100-watt amp packs five times the power of a 20-watter, its perceived volume is really only around twice that of the smaller amp (this is an imprecise science, since it involves many variables, including considerations of frequency perception). What does increase more dramatically with the higher-wattage amp is its headroom and the ceiling for the onset of breakup, meaning you have to push it hard to get the distortion juice.

Before moving on, let’s examine another scenario. Ever wondered why your bass player with the 200-watt head and 4x10 cab is always grumbling that your 15-watt 1x12 combo is too loud? For one thing, it takes a lot of wattage—that is, more tubes and a bigger output transformer—to adequately reproduce the low frequencies that bass guitar requires. For another, human hearing is more sensitive to midrange and high frequency sounds than it is to lows, and the nature of these changes as an amp transitions into distortion. Therefore, the frequency range and distortion content of any given amp will also skew our perception of apparent volume. Stand your 15-watter and your bass player’s 200-watter side-by-side, set his volume at noon and yours at 10 o’clock, and chances are you’re still cutting through just fine. All of which, of course, brings us to the issues of speaker type and efficiency, and cab design and speaker complement, all addressed thoroughly in All About Speakers (GP, May 2008). In brief, be aware that a more efficient speaker will make any amp louder, so let’s consider all of the above as if rendered on an equal playing field, speaker-wise. And, while a big 4x12 has a lot more surface area, and will therefore pump more air than a little 1x12, I have run the same amp head through both types of cabs side by side and on some occasions found the efficient open-backed 1x12 to have a higher perceived volume level than a closed-back 4x12 (remember: a 40-watt amp doesn’t pump 40 watts through each speaker in a 4x12, but divides the total into 10 watts each, while it does pump all 40 watts through the single driver in a 1x12 cab).

If you’re mostly playing smaller bar and club gigs but are attached to your bigger 50- or 100-watt amp, there are ways to tame its output level somewhat, and to therefore get it to sing and break up a little bit shorter of ear-splitting volume. Note that none of these solutions will yield exactly the same tone as running the same amp flat out as designed, but they might make acceptable compromises in some instances. A range of highquality output attenuators is now available from THD, TAD, Weber, Dr. Z and others, and can be connected between amp output and speaker to decrease the level in increments. Be aware, however, that cranking an amp through one of these devices will still burn through tubes just as fast as running it flat out without an attenuator. A few makers offer isolation cabs that carry small, high-powered speakers and internal mics, so you can muffle that stage or studio level down to nil, but still capture the tone of a cranked amp into a real speaker. There are also tube converters from companies such as THD and TAD that make it possible to use less powerful EL84s in amps designed for 6L6s, EL34s, 6550s, and other common power tubes. Lastly, many tube amps these days come equipped with “halfpower” switches or other power-reducing functions that can be very helpful in situations where volume is an issue. The fact that such features can even be found on some 20-watt amps underscores just how far things have come in the quest to give guitarists the ability to enjoy “cranked amp” sound at seriously reduced volumes.
 
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