Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

[sosomething]

No way I'm reading all of that.

It's clear to me that you have absolutely no idea what it's like to play in my kind of band, to our kind of crowd, in our kind of venues and situations.

It's also clear that you really need to be "right" about your view of amps and live music, and I don't have the energy to debate it with you when you've got no intention of doing anything besides paste whole articles into posts and repeat yourself.

Besides, I've already said everything I need to make my case. In the blog. That you presumably read.

 

[everdrone]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

No way I'm reading all of that.

It's clear to me that you have absolutely no idea what it's like to play in my kind of band, to our kind of crowd, in our kind of venues and situations.

It's also clear that you really need to be "right" about your view of amps and live music, and I don't have the energy to debate it with you when you've got no intention of doing anything besides paste whole articles into posts and repeat yourself.

Besides, I've already said everything I need to make my case. In the blog. That you presumably read.

ok! :cool2:

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

It's all about matching the amp/speaker combination to the venue/PA combination. No one can reasonably say that small amps or big amps are overkill, underkill, useless, etc., without stating the context first. Clubs with plenty of PA speakers can hold up against a 4x12 fine. Clubs with only a few PA speakers have a harder time.

As I also stated above, I believe that the influence of wattage on whether or not an amp is overkill/underkill pales in comparison to the influence of the speaker cabs used. It's not really about high power vs. low power. It's about stack or half stack vs. smaller cabs. In other words, suiting your rig to a certain venue is all about how much air your cab moves. Your amp determines your basic tone. Your speaker cab determines how that tone is distributed in the mix throughout the venue.

 

[everdrone]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

adam's vigorous defense of his rig as defining his crowd and band is pushing me to consider another 212PPC cab to make my rig look better on the stage! maybe plug it in if need be. and, running my bass rigs dually. my rigz:

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=248366

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

adam's vigorous defense of his rig as defining his crowd and band is pushing me to consider another 212PPC cab to make my rig look better on the stage! maybe plug it in if need be. and, running my bass rigs dually. my rigz:

https://forum.seymourduncan.com/showthread.php?t=248366

Another option, if you like the visual impact of a 4x12, but don't need all that sound pressure coming from it all the time: Wire your 4x12 in stereo. One jack goes to two speakers, and the other jack goes to the other two. My Ampeg Diamond Blue cab is set up this way, and it works great. This also allows bandmates to share a cab for practice, or for you to use a rig with two different amps, but only one speaker cab.

 

[Powdered Toast Man]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

I've seen plenty of bands with guitarists where the size of their amp = the size of their ego. "Turn down?! ME?!? **** you!" Coincidentally, those are also the bands where the guitar(s) overpower absolutely everything and their volume all but clears out the club (the patrons run screaming and covering their ears). God I hated having to go on after a band like that because there was never any crowd left.

 

[everdrone]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

Another option, if you like the visual impact of a 4x12, but don't need all that sound pressure coming from it all the time: Wire your 4x12 in stereo. One jack goes to two speakers, and the other jack goes to the other two. My Ampeg Diamond Blue cab is set up this way, and it works great. This also allows bandmates to share a cab for practice, or for you to use a rig with two different amps, but only one speaker cab.

cool, I did not think of that either! :beerchug:

maybe I will stack them like this for ultimate sound dispersion: :14::28:

here are some more "stacks" if u like where Im going with this : http://forum.orangeamps.com/viewtopic.php?t=47098

 

[Petrovsk Mizinski]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

Good blog post/article.
I use a 120 watt tube head and the master doesn't really go above 3.
More modern higher gain amps sound their best when NOT cranked all the way up and have lots of headroom left in the tank.
A little speaker breakup, which is nice, but as little poweramp breakup as possible.
I don't sound any louder than a dude cranking a 15 watt tube amp, but I do however have a lot more headroom which is just what the doctor ordered when your main guitars are 7 string guitars and you play in a metal band.

 

[sosomething]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

It's all about matching the amp/speaker combination to the venue/PA combination. No one can reasonably say that small amps or big amps are overkill, underkill, useless, etc., without stating the context first. Clubs with plenty of PA speakers can hold up against a 4x12 fine. Clubs with only a few PA speakers have a harder time.

As I also stated above, I believe that the influence of wattage on whether or not an amp is overkill/underkill pales in comparison to the influence of the speaker cabs used. It's not really about high power vs. low power. It's about stack or half stack vs. smaller cabs. In other words, suiting your rig to a certain venue is all about how much air your cab moves. Your amp determines your basic tone. Your speaker cab determines how that tone is distributed in the mix throughout the venue.

Solid point, and I don't disagree.

We play a lot of places with no PA whatsoever, and in that context, the 4x12 is really more about dispersion than volume or anything else. Keep in mind also that we're an instrumental band so issues with balancing vocals don't exist for us.

But yeah, a club with a nice PA and a competent sound guy to run it? I'd take a 2x12 on stage no problem.

I'm playing through a VHT Pittbull these days, so to everdrones point (what I can make of it) - those amps aren't really about poweramp distortion. And they open up and start to breathe well before halfway on the master. Why am I even explaining this?

Anyway, thanks for the thoughtful reply.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

 

[TheProphet]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

Final thought: it seems to me that the opponents of 100W amps fall into two camps:

1. People who play music that sounds best through a low-wattage amp, and incorrectly assume that ALL styles of music sound best through a low-wattage amp.

2. Bedroom theorists who've never owned anything louder than a Blues Jr.

Conversely, those who are in favour of 100W amps are usually people who gig with them on a regular basis.

In all honesty, I love low-wattage combos (in another life my main amp would be a Deluxe Reverb), but for the music I'm playing right now my Mark V half stack is ideal. You're not going to convince me otherwise. Sorry.

I made the mistake of listening to people in camp 1. Big mistake.

For home use I wouldn't mind a Mini Recto for home use ... but even then I still prefer the big end response from my Single. Even in gigging I never run it full out. Personally I'm not a fan of the bulk of distortion coming from the power tubes.

As for hearing damage ... standing next to my former drummer's crash symbol in practice ... that's done far more damage than anything else.

 

[TwofacePimp]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

Some styles of music benefit from headroom in their guitar amps, whether clean (funk, reggae, ska) or distorted (metal, hardcore, etc). Let us have our powerful amps!

That said, lately I've been noticing that I prefer the least amount of power needed to keep a clean tone. A 100w twin on 2 doesn't feel too great, but a twin reverb would be a little better, and my 40w pro reverb-ish amp feels better yet (but a 22w deluxe would distort too much). The same goes when comparing how well it interacts with my distortion pedals. My theory is that tubes distort the signal no matter what, and it's desirable to have the most possible while still having a "clean" tone.

 

[chadd]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

The same knob that goes up to 10 (or 11), also goes down to 0. I'm one of those crazy guys that prefers a 4x12 too. Then again, I usually have to be told to turn up in practice and I don't need a ton of volume at a gig. That's what the PA is for.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

Just to say it: I love the sound and feel of playing through a Marshall 1/2 stack. But even when I was in my twenties it was to loud for the rest of the band and for most places we performed and just inappropriate for the majority of the music that I play - which being from Detroit and growing up in the 1950's and 1960's has always been blues and R&B.

The Rolling Stones never used Marshall stacks or 1/2 stacks and always sounded better to me using smaller amps. Didn't care for their live sound at all when they were using those big Ampeg SVT's and what not. Wrong amps for the music and the gig, IMO.

When Cream got back together again a few years ago, Clapton tried using the Marshall stacks he used to use but found them no longer right or appropriate for him. Instead he went back to using his current rig:

Use whatever's right for you, right for your band, right for the venues you play and right for the style of music you're playing.

I'm getting the best sound I've ever gotten right now in 2012, using a pair of 20 watt blackface Fenders.

 

[DankStar]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

What kind of fenders are those? They look new (like not something from 1964).

 

[richard parker]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

A friend of mine did the sound at an outdoor festival where the guitarist in a well known band said that he could only get his 'sound' with his two Plexis turned up full. This was apparently not negotiable. They had to take him out of the mix altogether and he still ruined the sound of the band.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

What kind of fenders are those? They look new (like not something from 1964).

Those are Clapton's low power tweed Twins. Two 12's in each. Originally came with two rectifier tubes, and two 6L6 tubes for the output stage, which usually mean 40 watts or less.

But here's a description by Cesar Diaz of mods he made to Clapton's Twin. http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/19226/lot/92/ Cesar changed things considerably in that amp.

I don't know what Clapton's using now...whether the Twins he uses are as Cesar describes or if he's using the original 1957 circuit or not.

I'll bet someone here will know...probably TGWIF!

 

[ex-250]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

Forget wattage, what everyone needs is a Cab Of Doom™.

 

[glassman]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

My clientele ranges all over the map; I have guys that play 15 watt amps and I have guys who play 150 watt amps. They all play on the same local stages and have similar stage volumes. The difference in power has to do with what they play and very little to do with how much power they CAN push. A higher wattage amp will always have more reserve in this situation as long as there is a master volume involved.

I have a few guys that still perform with 100 watt NMV amps…very few. These guys only have a clean tone they are working with and require the fullness of the big amp to give them their tone. Their stage volume is pretty much the same as everyone else’s.

Personally, I don’t see high power NMV amps as having a lot of utility, however, I see high power MV equipped amps as a necessity for certain styles of music.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Blog: The 100 Watt Amp -- Too Much Firepower? Or Juuuuust Right?

What everyone needs, is to learn to think for themselves and use what's appropriate.

We're all very influenced by what our heroes use and make many choices in life based on assumptions not based on personal experience.

Just because you think you need a big amp, doesn't mean you need a big amp, but if you're going to play with Ozzy you probably do need a BIG AMP!

Even to say you don't need a big amp or alot of amplification if you play blues is wrong if you're Stevie Ray Vaughn. Although he didn't really need a big amp for blues...I think he needed those big amps more for the Hendrix stuff. But what do I know? I only know what's appropriate for me.

For me, music heals. I think that was Curly's signature here on the forum but we don't see Gary here any longer. I don't like seeing music products like pickups being described on the package as being "Brutal" or "Punishing". Save that crap for describing activities on the porno websites.

For me, music is a healing thing and, IMO, I want it to make us all feel better, not brutalized or punished. Just my view.

So what's appropriate for me is to not ruin my hearing further and not cause physical damage to anyone else either. Especially since people like my brother Bruce, who I've played with for almost 45 years now, tell me I'm getting the best tone of my life using the small amps I've been favoring for a few years now. But they also match my playing style, the style of music I play and the rooms I play in.

You've all heard this by now, I think, but here's a YOUTUBE from a recent show I did. No pedals. Just my ES-335 into a pair of Deluxe Reverbs on about volume 5. Knowing sosomething as I do, and having heard the music of the Devils of Belgrade, what I use to get my tone would not be right for him to get his tone.

This is my version of Hideaway - a 100 watt 1/2 stack would not be appropriate for this band or this music.