Bugera 1990?

Re: Bugera 1990?

I recently tried one of these with the matching cab.
To be honest, I really liked it, and I imagine with better tubes it would smooth out a bit.
It was a bit rough sounding but it was still very good. Tried it at lower volumes, good. Higher volumes, great. Great distortion, good cleans.

If they've addressed their early issues, count me in with a Bugera sooner or later.
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

There are a few videos on youtube from this called the "Tone King" where he compare the 1990 model and the JCM900. And another one where he compares the 1960 and a plexi. To me, in the videos, the marshalls do sound better, but they are pretty close
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

I've been thinking about getting the 1960 for a while now. My favorite amp is my Bogner Shiva, but I'm no amp snob. I'll use whatever sounds good (that I can afford at the time). So since I've been jonesing for a 1959SLP, but don't have the cash handy to get one -- I may pull the trigger on the 1960. I've seen a lot of happy users of them.
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

There are a few videos on youtube from this called the "Tone King" where he compare the 1990 model and the JCM900. And another one where he compares the 1960 and a plexi. To me, in the videos, the marshalls do sound better, but they are pretty close

Yes, it's that TTK guy. I hate him.
He has a lot of fancy equipment, he knows what he's doing, plays right, has good amps, cabs, everything superb.
And then he spoils it all with a cheap camera mic :)
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

The thing about Bugera and Behringer is not their tone. They sound fine. You'd be surprised how good a Marshall or Mesa design can sound. That is not the point.

The point is by buying cheaply manufactured intellectual property theft, you are discouraging amp designers from putting money into research and development.
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

The thing about Bugera and Behringer is not their tone. They sound fine. You'd be surprised how good a Marshall or Mesa design can sound. That is not the point.

The point is by buying cheaply manufactured intellectual property theft, you are discouraging amp designers from putting money into research and development.

I don't see Randall Smith or the R&D department at Marshall giving up and quitting. And Reinhold Bogner figured that if he couldn't beat 'em (the Chinese), he might as well partner with them (Line6, Alchemist). It doesn't seem to have hurt his Custom Shop business. People who want the real thing are still gonna get the real thing.

Doesn't bother me a bit that young/low-income players can get better tone machines. I came-up as a player in the 80's, where you had budget, crappy-sounding amps, or the real thing -- that cost a lot more. Now you still have those two options -- but the budget amps don't sound so crappy anymore. What I wouldn't have given to have started-out on a Bugera tube amp instead of that stinkin' Gorilla!
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

I don't see Randall Smith or the R&D department at Marshall giving up and quitting. And Reinhold Bogner figured that if he couldn't beat 'em (the Chinese), he might as well partner with them (Line6, Alchemist). It doesn't seem to have hurt his Custom Shop business. People who want the real thing are still gonna get the real thing.

Maybe that's true, and maybe it's not. And even though I've probably posted about a dozen times concerning my feeling for Bugera, I haven't been able to change anyone's mind. I don't know whether or not Marshall's R&D department is hurting or not, but based on the fact that they purchased Swedish technology for the JDM:1 and farmed out an existing design to Vietnam, I'm guessing it's not all that profitable on its own.

And the difference here is that Bogner partnered with Line6. It was a design he chose to sell under his name. You think he'd be happy with the Bugera Xtasy? (Or Chiva for stoner rock? Boo... I couldn't resist.)

Doesn't bother me a bit that young/low-income players can get better tone machines. I came-up as a player in the 80's, where you had budget, crappy-sounding amps, or the real thing -- that cost a lot more. Now you still have those two options -- but the budget amps don't sound so crappy anymore. What I wouldn't have given to have started-out on a Bugera tube amp instead of that stinkin' Gorilla!

Me neither. But I prefer it in terms of Jet City or Blackstar. Those guys didn't rip off any designs. The Blackstar guys are ex-Marshall employees, and they took a design they came up with that Marshall didn't really dig and started their own company. They build the amps and pedals in Korea, and they don't cost a lot of money. They're not legendary amps, but for the price, they sound pretty good. And they didn't steal anything.

Then you have Mike Soldano going into business with a couple guys in Seattle to mass produce designs that he came up with. Again, he's part of the deal, so there's no theft involved. It's when you get things like the Bugera Beluxe Beberb or Duel Wrecktifier that I have a problem. If they were to come to Randall Smith and say, "Hey, we want to build your amps at a quarter of the cost," and he said okay, I'd own three of them. But they didn't, and I don't.

It's not about bang for the buck. It's like taking a couple of steaks from the meat department because some of them are going to go bad anyway.
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

The Blackstar guys are ex-Marshall employees, and they took a design they came up with that Marshall didn't really dig and started their own company.

I thought it's common thing in a contract that everything you do/write/invent is property of the company and not yourself?
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

I thought it's common thing in a contract that everything you do/write/invent is property of the company and not yourself?

I don't really know the specifics of the deal. I don't know if they came up with it on company time or their own. And I don't even remember the details of the story. And as I understand it, Marshall didn't want it anyway. So if there's no lawsuit, I'm sure they've got it worked out. And no one is disputing that they came up with the idea.
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

I've owned a Bugera V5 for about a year now with no issues. Not all of them are crap and they DO have warantees. I put a Weber Mcbride 8" speaker and Sovtek tubes and I really dig the tone.
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

One thing about them that I have noticed is that they are doing some sly marketing. Next time you are flipping through the channels and you come across a preteen/teenager shows that has a band, check the back line. You will see a few of these amps.
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

The only thing copied, borrowed or stolen in the Bugera line is the cosmetics. From a marketing perspective it makes sense; you know just from looking at it what type of tone you can expect from the amp. On the other hand, it is kind of shady because an uninformed buyer may be deceived into thinking he's actually getting a JCM.

It's not possible for them to copy verbatim the design of these amps and offer them at this price point. Do they use these designs as the basis, sure, but who the hell doesn't.
In the earlier Blackheart example; what do you think they did? They took the standard Marshall platform they used daily in their job at Marshall and made a couple tweaks. They liked the tweaks enough to start their own company. What did Rivera, Soldano, Bogner, Randall do? They took the designs of the amps they were familiar with and made a few tweaks. What about the boutique guys, they literally copy the designs verbation (some anyway) and yet they don't offend anyones moral radar? And what about amp kits like Ceriatone? http://www.ceriatone.com/index.htm

The Bugera line is just as "original" as any other amp on the market; production or boutique. They've taken a popular platform and added their own tweaks. I can give you a laundry list of features that the V22 has which a comparable Vox/Matchless model doesn't offer. The Behringer designed speaker, for example, is widely considered better for the amp then any name brand people have replaced it with.

Rip into Behringer all you like for their track record for quality. My experience with the Bugera line is contrary to this reputation.
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

The thing about Bugera and Behringer is not their tone. They sound fine. You'd be surprised how good a Marshall or Mesa design can sound. That is not the point.

The point is by buying cheaply manufactured intellectual property theft, you are discouraging amp designers from putting money into research and development.

But, if the company charges twice as much and calls itself boutique it's ok then?

Metropoulos
Ceriatone
Soultone
Reinhardt
......And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

Or what about a company like Splawn who's amps are clearly built on the Marshall platform.
They just did the hot rodding for you.
But, because they are around 2K and added a gain stage or clipping diode or something else, they are exempt by definition?


All these companies make great amps.
Their amps are built off of the classic platforms of Marshall, Fender or Vox.
and some of them not so far removed.



Honestly, I think Bugera only gets ragged on because it's guilty by association.

I remember the same thing happening to V Series Amplification.
Yes, when they first came out, they had their own website, were considered their own amp line.
Once it was found out that they were associated to Crate/St Louis Music, oh
they must be crap.
But, once people actually tried them, and found out what a nice little amp they really were, the tune changed.
Of course, when production changed from USA to MIC, they got poo poo'd again. Just because of the MIC thing.
But, since then, V Series has been replaced by Blackheart. Made in the same MIC factory.
But, Blackheart seems to be more accepted now.
People have seemed to be able to finally move on and not worry about the Crate association, and judge the BlackHeart amp line on it's own merits.

Would Jet City Amps be as easily accepted if it were not for the association with Mike Soldano?
Or would we have just blown them off as another F'n Chinese amp.

Yes, Bugera had some first year production kinks to straighten out.
Which is not uncommon for any company's first year of production.
But, at least they stepped up to the plate and addressed the issues.

Didn't the first year run of the Egnater imports have a few wrinkles to iron out?
But, because it's Bruce Egnater, we excuse that first year?
Yes! Bruce stepped up to the plate and addressed those issues.

I think Bugera deserves the same chance.


A few weeks ago our band was in the studio recording.
I used my Carvin V3 (6l6 loaded). Which gives me the modern high gain tone.
For doubling we used the studios JCM900 (EL34).
It gave us a sonic-ally different tone, that when combined with the V3, gave us a rich full sound.
And no phasing issues, because of the sonic difference.

So, anyways, this has me seriously looking at getting a second amp myself that is sonic-ally different than my V3.
Who knows if that JCM900 will be available again, when we go back in.

So, I've been looking at the Bugera 1990.
Or maybe something different yet like the Egnater Tweaker or Rebel 20.
Or other amp that won't break the bank.

I personally think it's great that we have these amps out there that don't cost an arm and a leg.
That can get us into those sonic territories we want.
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

I really don't understand why all of a sudden people get bent out of shape over companies copying other companies amps. Really didn't marshall try to copy Fender? Peavey tried to make Marshall sounding amps. Copying, or being inspired by other brands is what made the amp business.

Yeah so bugera does some Iffy marketing which obviously compares their amps to other well know amps (XXX, 6505, JCM900). But say they completely didn't have that market strategy... That they had just a 3 channel hi-gain cheap tube amp that sounded good. wouldn't we be judging it simply on the merit of its sound?

The only reason people slam Bugera is because of their Behringer relationship. If it were a completely different company with no Behringer relation and they named their amps "X", or "Y", or "Z" then we wouldn't be having this conflict. Judge the amp by the merits of its sound. Stealing intellectual property? Well the designs are all owned by the company not the designer (Exceptions like Soldano who own the company anyway) and these designers go from company to company all the time so there is so much cross pollination anyway.
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

I don't touch anything that Behringer makes simply because it's usually not too reliable. From what I've read the Bugera amps have similar problems. My life is too short to waste time with malfunctioning gear.
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

I don't touch anything that Behringer makes simply because it's usually not too reliable. From what I've read the Bugera amps have similar problems. My life is too short to waste time with malfunctioning gear.

At this point I wouldn't trade my JCM800 for anything in the world. This thing feels bulletproof.
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

I don't touch anything that Behringer makes simply because it's usually not too reliable. From what I've read the Bugera amps have similar problems. My life is too short to waste time with malfunctioning gear.

I've owned a V-Amp2, Vampire combo, Vampire head, FC1010 Midi Controller, and Behringer 8 channel mixer. Most have been gigged and never had a single issue with each. I only still own the mixer and the V-Amp2, but the only reason that I got rid of the other stuff was that I no longer had a use for it. I think that Behringer is great stuff for the money and serves a great purpose to provide younger players with limited budgets with decent gear on the cheap.
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

Honestly, I think Bugera only gets ragged on because it's guilty by association.

I'm thinking the same.

If someone in car industry would make 2.0l with 5 gears and 3 doors, pulling out 163HP and 400nm torque... which would be very similar as some model to some Volvo model, would he be called for a rip-off?

And if someone made same JCM800, but putting it in a fancy aluminum chassis, with suspension and NASA quality parts, selling it for $4000 nobody would be calling it a Marshall ripoff.
 
Re: Bugera 1990?

The dual master volume 2100 Mk III is the best JCM 900 - IMO. Does one thing and does it very well. The SL-X is the circuit with an added preamp tube. The Dual Reverb is an entirely different amp.

YEP I OWN A 2501 1/12 COMBO AND IT ROCKS!!
I like the JCM 900 Dual Masters better than any thing Marshall has out right now mine is a Lil tone monster!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hVVMU7Ombg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB4YY0rVoUA&feature=related
 
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