C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

[KLINKDETROIT]

I really like the C5 but wish it had more mids. Does the Custom shop have ways of making this happen. Any one have other ideas? Overwinding or any thing???
I am actually surprised that Duncan has not made a pickup like the C5 with more mids and the same amount of gain and airyness. I am sure they would make alot of money. Is there such a pickup?

 

[bryvincent]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

what about the CC?

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

That's the pickup that's my dream humbucker too. I use nickel C-5's and CC's, but have even asked Seymour himself what needs to be done to thicken the mids in the Custom 5. His answer was "just overwind it a bit." It's a Custom Shop job, which will most likely cost $150ish. I've actually got all the Customs.....the Custom, CC, C-3,
C-4, and Custom 5. I'm still convinced that the best A5 humbucker would be a C-5 with a resistance closer to a JB......15.4 or something like that. The C-5 is 14.4
I may order one in nickel and see if it knocks the C-5 and CC off their pedestals in my Pauls.

 

[mongrollo]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

That's the pickup that's my dream humbucker too. I use nickel C-5's and CC's, but have even asked Seymour himself what needs to be done to thicken the mids in the Custom 5. His answer was "just overwind it a bit." It's a Custom Shop job, which will most likely cost $150ish. I've actually got all the Customs.....the Custom, CC, C-3,
C-4, and Custom 5. I'm still convinced that the best A5 humbucker would be a C-5 with a resistance closer to a JB......15.4 or something like that. The C-5 is 14.4
I may order one in nickel and see if it knocks the C-5 and CC off their pedestals in my Pauls.

May be the C-4 or C-3 could be a good solution for the problem. Not the "dreamed one" but cheap and close. How does the C-4 and C-3 compare to the C-5?

 

[the guy who invented fire]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

That's the pickup that's my dream humbucker too. I use nickel C-5's and CC's, but have even asked Seymour himself what needs to be done to thicken the mids in the Custom 5. His answer was "just overwind it a bit." It's a Custom Shop job, which will most likely cost $150ish. I've actually got all the Customs.....the Custom, CC, C-3,
C-4, and Custom 5. I'm still convinced that the best A5 humbucker would be a C-5 with a resistance closer to a JB......15.4 or something like that. The C-5 is 14.4
I may order one in nickel and see if it knocks the C-5 and CC off their pedestals in my Pauls.

+1...I talked with MJ once and she said the same thing

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

I've always thought of the Custom 5 as being an underwound JB. They're both alnico 5 pickups and both use the same gauge wire...or so I've been told. The JB measures about 16.4K and the C5 about 14.4K. I don't think there's any diff between the two except that the JB has more wire on the coils. Anybody know for sure? Lew

 

[Robert S.]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

I can't say for sure but there are quite a few other factors that influence tone in a pickup including the tension of the wire, the pitch, the wind count per pass. There's no telling (since Seymour won't tell) if all those specs are the same or not between the Customs and the JB.

Just last night I swapped the alnico v magnet for an alnico II magnet in my 14.75k custom shop C-5. The overall tone from that guitar is now much warmer in the mids, the top end is rolled back a bit but it still rings nicely. The bottom end is still full but breaths a little better through the lead 1 red (recto) voice of my Triaxis.

I've been messing with my settings and tone a lot lately looking for more throat and less bite and the CC in this guitar seems to be a step in the right direction.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

I can't say for sure but there are quite a few other factors that influence tone in a pickup including the tension of the wire, the pitch, the wind count per pass. There's no telling (since Seymour won't tell) if all those specs are the same or not between the Customs and the JB.

Just last night I swapped the alnico v magnet for an alnico II magnet in my 14.75k custom shop C-5. The overall tone from that guitar is now much warmer in the mids, the top end is rolled back a bit but it still rings nicely. The bottom end is still full but breaths a little better through the lead 1 red (recto) voice of my Triaxis.

I've been messing with my settings and tone a lot lately looking for more throat and less bite and the CC in this guitar seems to be a step in the right direction.

You know I love the CC. So what you made is basically a Custom Shop Custom Custom. A little hotter than a normal 14.4K CC though. Is that your first one? I use one in my Hamer Monoco. Thanks!

 

[Robert S.]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

It's not my first CC but it's the first time I've tried the CC in this guitar. One of the guitar players I work with has a CC in an old Melodymaker and I had a CC in my Strat for awhile and thats where I got the alnico II magnet for this pickup.

Since I just did the swap last night I can't give anything more than initial impressions and my rig is so varied tonally that it's going to take awhile to sort it all out. My primary clean channel is the rhythm green on the Triaxis which is a very warm Mark I voice. I initially missed some of the top end spank from the C-5 but height and pole adjustments are working that out a bit. Combined with the PGn the tone is also a bit warmer and I'm missing a little definition there as well. It's not a bad thing but it is different. I still think the C-5/PGn combined tones are some of the best out there for a more modern LP tone. After I do a bit more adjusting and knob spinning and get over the fact that the tone from my #1 is different (change is a bitch) we'll see how it hits me. I still haven't had a chance to mess with the coil splitting and phase stuff yet but I'm sure it's all useable.

The recto channel is a bit different and I'm still experimenting with that. The biggest issue for me is all the flexability. The Triaxis has gian, drive and a master volume and well as presence, treble, mids and bass. The 2:90 has presence and volumes and depending on how you set those the brightness and bottom end response changes. The 2:90 also has a deep extend, 1/2 drive and modern voicing option so the ways I can shape my tone are pretty vast.

My other issues are that I am currently playing this rig through single 12 3/4 back cabs and I have cement block floors and a cement floor so there is no end to the top end here at the house. I'm considering closed back 212s or 412, a variety of speakers and possibly JJs in this rig as well but I need to play it out a few times in better rooms before I make any final determinations.

I also need to run this guitar through my Marshall to see what I get but so far it's all good.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

I had a little doubt about the CC being bright enough too, at first. But like you, I found that adjusting the height of the CC made a big improvement in the treble response. I just move it about as close as possible to the strings and the CC in my Monoco has plenty of highs.

I've tried the C5 and CC in solid body guitars like my Hamer Studios, but I prefer the CC in a semi hollow body guitar like my Monoco. The more resonant body of the semi hollowbody design seems to "complete" the tone of the Custom Custom.

 

[Mac-P]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

If you want more mids, the C5 is NOT where you should be looking (IMHO).

Why not just try another pickup?

 

[rspst14]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

Using an A2 or A3 magnet will completely change the character of the pickup. An A4 magnet might do the trick, you'd have to ask Gearjoneser about that. It depends on how much more midrange you want.

Ryan

 

[korinastratkyle]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

I've always thought of the Custom 5 as being an underwound JB. They're both alnico 5 pickups and both use the same gauge wire...or so I've been told. The JB measures about 16.4K and the C5 about 14.4K. I don't think there's any diff between the two except that the JB has more wire on the coils. Anybody know for sure? Lew

Actually I believe the Custom uses 43 AWG while the JB uses 44 AWG. They both have about the same amount of turns, the JB having a little more, but the smaller wire is the main reason the resistance is higher. IMHO, resistance is a crappy way of determining output, there's so many other factors involved.

And regarding getting more mids, overwinding the coils 300-500 turns is my personal recommendation. I don't see why they have they don't have that option as a floor custom, unless they use CNC to wind the coils, which wouldn't surprise me.

 

[MattPete]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

Using an A2 or A3 magnet will completely change the character of the pickup. An A4 magnet might do the trick, you'd have to ask Gearjoneser about that. It depends on how much more midrange you want.

Ryan

I tried an A4, but I thought it gave a really nasty, harsh sound. An A3 does a nice job of adding a little bit of sparkle and bass to the CC, while pulling back the mids a bit.

 

[Gearjoneser]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

My taste leans right in between the C-5 and CC. To me, the C-5 is possibly my favorite bridge humbucker, but it's only 85% there. I tried the C-4 nickelcovered, which I made, and it's like a harder, slightly thinner version of the C-5 with a tad more mids, but a more sterile vibe. In something like an Explorer or 335, where the tone needs a lot of articulation, the C-4 would be great. So far, I'm convinced that a 15.4 Custom 5 would be the perfect humbucker, especially for Les Pauls. Surprisingly the C-4 didn't sound quite as bouncy as the C-5, and the C-3 had a thinner sound than I'd expected. I'm splitting hairs, but a slightly overwound C-5 may be the one.

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

My taste leans right in between the C-5 and CC. To me, the C-5 is possibly my favorite bridge humbucker, but it's only 85% there. I tried the C-4 nickelcovered, which I made, and it's like a harder, slightly thinner version of the C-5 with a tad more mids, but a more sterile vibe. In something like an Explorer or 335, where the tone needs a lot of articulation, the C-4 would be great. So far, I'm convinced that a 15.4 Custom 5 would be the perfect humbucker, especially for Les Pauls. Surprisingly the C-4 didn't sound quite as bouncy as the C-5, and the C-3 had a thinner sound than I'd expected. I'm splitting hairs, but a slightly overwound C-5 may be the one.

I agree. Lets bug Duncan so much they have to make the version you speak of.

I have tried 80% of the Duncan humbuckers and the C5 is almost there but lacks mids. I like the custom customs mids but it seems narrow in its Eq and not as open/ airy as the C5

 

[papersoul]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

That's the pickup that's my dream humbucker too. I use nickel C-5's and CC's, but have even asked Seymour himself what needs to be done to thicken the mids in the Custom 5. His answer was "just overwind it a bit." It's a Custom Shop job, which will most likely cost $150ish. I've actually got all the Customs.....the Custom, CC, C-3,
C-4, and Custom 5. I'm still convinced that the best A5 humbucker would be a C-5 with a resistance closer to a JB......15.4 or something like that. The C-5 is 14.4
I may order one in nickel and see if it knocks the C-5 and CC off their pedestals in my Pauls.

Gear...let us know how you like it if you order. I am waiting because I have some other gear on the way.

Hey, many of the boutique builders will say the idea or trick to big tone in a pickup is to go for the lowest output p/ups you can handle and let the amp do the work. Maybe they could make a C-5 style pickup with lower output?

Mac has a good point of just looking to another pickup all together. I have also been thinkging this way. The C-5 just ends up sounding a little thin when used with a band and especially with another guitarist. Leads especially never sounded thick, smooth or smooth. The JB does that much better.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

Mac has a good point of just looking to another pickup all together. I have also been thinkging this way. The C-5 just ends up sounding a little thin when used with a band and especially with another guitarist. Leads especially never sounded thick, smooth or smooth. The JB does that much better.

I've got to say that this is how I hear the C5 too. I used one for about a year. The only time I really loved it was when I could get away with playing really loud through my Marshall. Most of the time the C5 sounded like it needed more of something....more mids I guess. I had it in a double cutaway Hamer. Double cutaways like that seem to have less body to the bass and lower mids compared to a Les Paul. Maybe that was part of it too. Maybe I'd have liked it better in a Les Paul. Lew

 

[KLINKDETROIT]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

I use my c5 in a goldtop classic and love it jammin by myself but I have let friends play it live and it did not cut thru the mix and sounded thin compared to the one guys EMG 85 and the other guys stock 500t. I crank my mids at about 7 and have a mid boost installed on the amp. I dont know how my stuff sounds from an audience point of view but it sounds great on stage? I hope to let one of the opening bands use my gear so I can hear it out front.

 

[Robert S.]

Re: C5 With More Mids. How? Custom Shop?, Other?

I don't know Rob, I heard you guys play at the 89X party and your tone was far from lacking and I definately didn't hear anything that came close to sounding thin but you may have played the Schecter more that evening.

If you like the EMG 85/500t thing I do have a Duncan Distortion set laying around that you could try out. The DD in the bridge will definately get you more juice and mids.

I was noticing a simular thing with my C-5 using the Recto channel on my Mesa rig. It sounded killer through the other channels and through my Marshall but the Recto voicing is a bit different and I did find it too thin for some things. Just out of curiosity I swapped magnets and started trying the CC. Then yesterday in my knob spinning haze to find a fatter tone for one of the bands I'm working with I dailed the drive to zero and dimed the gain on the recto channel. I lost a lot of the edge in my tone and the lower mids and mids shot through the roof. It still cuts and sounds very agressive but it's more of a cranked and pedalled master volume amp tone than a cascaded and driven tone. Running the amp that way seems to allow the highs and mids when pushed up to add gain to the signal instead of the drive.

While i know the Triaxis/2:90 is a bit different from your modded Recto head, it's worth a try. Right now I have the gain at 10, treble at 6, mids at 7, bass at 4.5 and the lead drive at zero. I also have the presence at 3 oclock on the 2:90 which takes some of the top end and urgency off of the tone. With these settings the C-5 may actually be a better choice for me over the CC as my tone is now very thick with a good dose of bite on the top end for lead work.

I'm going to run an Antiquity set and a JP set through the amp today and see how it holds up to a brighter set of pickups before i switch the magnets back again.