Can we talk Strat/Tele tuners?

[uOpt]

Just thinking loud. Picking tuners is a little bit permanent, because after you made the tuner holes big enough for Schallers and Grovers you better stick with it. And I don't want the back of my headstock to be full of holes so that it looks like somebody took a shotgun to it.

I decided I don't like the vintage style Gotohs anymore. I neither like the style nor the quality.

I have tested the same guitar with the same neck with vintage Gotohs and heavier modern tuners and decided that there is no sound difference I can hear. So sound-wise the path is clear to heavier tuners.

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I have a Music Man Steve Morse which comes stock with Sperzel locking tuners. I like the locking functionality but the tuners themselves are inexact. Plus their website sucks. They have some cool looking semi-locking open tuners that I can't get any useful info about.

I always liked how smooth Grovers are.

Schallers (not the F-labeled Taiwan made "Schaller" stuff Fender mounts now) has always been great quality. The locking Schallers come in two variants: traditional "screw ear" and the new ones just have a pin that goes into the peghead under the tuner casing (again, don't confuse that with the stuff Fender is mounting which has a large case and two pins). I really like the pinned stuff since I would be able to change my mind later without leaving additional holes.

But the cheapest source for the Schaller pin stuff is $78 plus shipping from Stewmac. Ouch. Furthermore, I have concerns that the pin might loosen in the wood over time (strong lever force because they are close to the axis and a screw can be tightened, this cannot).

The locking Schallers are ultra-heavy but you can buy lighter tuner buttons (pearloid or ebony). I dunno about this option. I think I'd like it on a "fancy" Tele with all rosewood neck but not on a loud, white "man-Strat" with CBS headstock.

Then there are locking Grovers that I don't know anything about. Of course they have their screw hole in a different place than Schallers so you can't easily change. They aren't much cheaper either. Anybody familiar with these?

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/...p_Mini_Locking_Guitar_Machines_6-In-Line.html

Now, I think my decision tree is like this:

1) do I really want locking tuners? I have a string mount technique that left me without tuning problems and very few turns for 25+ years. But then I never used a non-locking tremolo so far.

2) Schaller pin system, yepp or nah? Sounds risky. Also, are they too heavy and/or are the alternate knobs cool?

3) Should I just get Grovers?

4) Should I just try locking Grovers?

 

[Will S-T]

Re: Can we talk Strat/Tele tuners?

I love the Schallers, German made. Got them on an LP special and strat.
Recently I've trying out the Hipshot locking tuners, both standard and staggered.
Also VERY nice, and I love their funky look. Got them on two strats.

http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=246

But if your headstock is already drilled for the Gotoh Klusons, check these out.

http://www.ezramusicshop.com/pd-sd91hapm.cfm

I haven't tried them yet but they do look interesting and Gotoh quality!

 

[Johtosotku]

Re: Can we talk Strat/Tele tuners?

I'd also have a look at other Gotohs besides the vintage ones, I've had some very good experiences with the more modern ones.

 

[Philcguitars]

Re: Can we talk Strat/Tele tuners?

When I changed to Sperzel on my 1st Strat some [long] time back when I didn't know, about the different diameter thing. I could have got som bushes made because the holes I had were larger, but I didn't want to wait for my engineer. So I wound electrical tape cut to size around them until they fit. On that particular guitar, they've been like it ever since.

It keeps great tune!

I live with the new holes. Only you pretty much ever look at the back!

 

[Bludave]

Re: Can we talk Strat/Tele tuners?

I have the Sperzel locking tuners on one of my Strats & love them. They work great & perform flawlessly. I have had them on this guitar for about 10 years with absolutely no issues at all. The only drawback major drawback to these are:

If you are going to tune down & use very heavy strings you should make sure the string guage you are planning on using will fit through the hole. The Sperzels have a small hole on the tuners. I use 11's (11 thru 49) with no issue, but if you were going to use a 58 or heavier it could be a concern. The same issue is when I break a String (which is unusually rare) the hole is tiny & on stage it can be difficult to restring on the fly. That is my favorite issue with locking tuners in the event you break a string you can literally change a broken string in about 30 seconds and be ready to play.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Can we talk Strat/Tele tuners?

Thanks guys. My wife looks funny at me because yesterday I sat down on a table with a caliper, a tons of tuners and twisted and turned them for two hours.

I was hoping that the Grovers would have the same mounting points for the regular ones and the locking one, but they don't, the locking ones are bigger, repositioning the screw holes. Not that their tech specs say where exactly the hole is.

I think I'll just bite the bullet and get the pin-locked Schallers for $$$. If there's stability problems with the lock holes I can resell them and still mount other tuners with no extra drilling. $78 plus shipping. Insane.

I wonder whether they are cheaper in Germany, I have friends there.

 

[sstanfield]

Re: Can we talk Strat/Tele tuners?

I have the Grover cam-lock Minis on all three of my guitars: the two Teles in my avatar and on my Yamaha semi-hollow (3 + 3). I really like them! They stay in tune and there is no locking screw to mess with. On the Yamaha, I had to drill holes, but the old holes are covered, so no problem.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Can we talk Strat/Tele tuners?

Stupid question just to be sure:

on a reverse headstock I can still mount right-handed 6-in-line tuners, right?

They will just have their casing on the "wrong" side (optically), but the turn direction for tuning is the same for left and right handed tuners?

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Can we talk Strat/Tele tuners?

Thanks guys. My wife looks funny at me because yesterday I sat down on a table with a caliper, a tons of tuners and twisted and turned them for two hours.

Perfect! I appreciate this thread and all the research you've done.

Do you happen to know the diameter of the headstock drilling for the tuners furnished with Fender Hwy 1 Strats? Do you know which locking tuner will fit that same hole?

It doesnt matter to me whether there is a hidden locating pin or visible screw to prevent rotation. I've had Sperzels on a Yamaha Pacifica for years and it's the most stable guitar I own for holding tune.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Can we talk Strat/Tele tuners?

No idea about the Highway One.

Basically Fender cheats a little on the hardware. All the hardware on "American" Fenders is China made (if you include Taiwan). The things that are called "Fender Schaller" and have a "F" in the style that Schallers have a "S" are made to Schaller specs in Taiwan, also by Ping IIRC. These are of noticeably less quality and they have much larger casings than the German made Schallers. The pin-equipped Fender ones have two pins in a large rectangular case, the Germans ones have one pin and a small round case.

I think I'll dive into the deep end and pick the locking Grovers for my Strat neck. The Schaller stuff is too heavy stock and I think you can use the pearloid or ebony pegheads only on "fancy" guitars.

I don't know anybody who ever used the Grovers but what's wrong with being First Penguin?

I also don't rule out to stick with vintage Gotohs until I find "the" neck and then take the hole damage. I don't want to get stuck with having to sell a couple necks with "wired" tuner holes.

 

[ES350]

Re: Can we talk Strat/Tele tuners?

IMHO, you really can't cheap out on tuners; if it isn't in tune, why bother? Go for it...

 

[sstanfield]

Re: Can we talk Strat/Tele tuners?

These are the ones I mentioned in my previous post.
$47.40 for chrome, $58.50 for gold.



http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/1/Grover_Mini_Locking_Rotomatics_6-in-line/Pictures.html#details

 

[KeeperOS]

Re: Can we talk Strat/Tele tuners?

I have the same kind of tuners in my Washburn MGs (only they are Washburn branded and I suspect are built by Gotoh) and they work GREAT.

Plus, there are no screws or moving parts to become loose and then have the fear of getting lost in a dark stage while rocking out...

(For the record, I currently have 4 guitars, two with Sperzel locking and two with those Washburns and at least personally if I were to buy after market tuners again it'd be the later kind)