chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

[ItsaBass]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

I am wondering how many of the people slamming Gibson are actually Gibson owners. I don't see how a consumer can slam a product if there have never been a consumer of that product. All of the owners in the Post Your Les Paul Picture Thread seem more than happy with Gibson and their guitars. Case-in-point most Gibson owners purchase additional guitars from the company, there are tons of pictures of multiple guitar collections.

Sheesh! You disagree with an opinion, so you attack the legitimacy of others to have it. That's silly. At this time, I own many Gibsons:

'60's B-25 (unsure of year)
'68 ES-330
'68 SG Standard
'83 Les Paul Custom
'01 Les Paul Junior
'03 Les Paul Melody Maker
'04 Les Paul Standard
'06 Explorer

I have owned others in the past:

'67 ES-345
'94 Les Paul Standard
2000 Historic Black Beauty three pickup
2001 ES-333
2001 Les Paul Studio Plus
2012 SG Special Faded
'01 MIJ Epiphone SG Standard (hard-tail '61 reissue)

I never actually purchased a '70's one because I never found one that spoke to me...or if I did, I couldn't afford it at the time. There were some good ones in there every now and then, though they really were mostly ****. My only Norlin is the '83, and it is **** as well. It just looks cool, and it's kind of sentimental to me, so I keep it.

And aside from all that, having worked in vintage shops in the past, I've played all sorts of guitars from all sorts of companies from all sorts of eras. And my dad was a friend of one of the most well known vintage guitar dealers in the world, and I grew up in and around his collection and his shop, spending hours upon hours in there picking his brain and playing old guitars. I am intimately familiar with Gibson's products over the past 60 years; why else would I be so disgusted with the company these days? To me, today they are the worst they have ever been, hands down. And that's just speaking of quality, not of their business practices, or even of their pricing, which is another issue. (And, to their credit, the Custom Shop makes great guitars.)

You may not agree with my opinion, or with my attitude about Gibson, and I don't expect anyone to do so. And I am certainly far from a compete expert on guitars...but I am not ignorant by any means. I'm not just plain blowing uneducated opinions out of my ass, as you implied. They are opinions I have formed based on my own gathering of information...and not just playing a few or owning a few. It's a lot of information and firsthand experience. It's not just me spouting off ignorantly, without any firsthand experience. It's not just me regurgitating what I've heard from others. I love what the Gibson company was before Norlin, and I love what they became after Norlin. Now they have gone down a very bad road under the same guy who "rescued" them in the first place. It's very sad and disturbing to me, and unfortunately indicative of American industry in general.

And aside from all that, I just can't get all up in arms about the fakes, as they pose no threat anyhow. They simply do not directly compete with Gibson. They are no real threat to the company. Nobody buys them as an alternative to a real Gibson, and nobody buys them thinking that they compete with real Gibsons. I have a hard time thinking that what the counterfeiters are doing is really all that bad in the grand scheme of things, especially when I view what Gibson themselves turn out these days as cheap knockoffs of their own stuff anyhow.

And to the other guy who mad the cheez-whiz comment, you obviously didn't understand what I wrote. I didn't say the Chinese fakes are as good as real Gibsons. I said that there is no way you can be really disappointed with them as guitars if you have realistic expectations. Only a complete idiot who deserves what they get buys one thinking it's gonna compete with a real one.

 

[Securb]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

Sheesh! You disagree with an opinion, so you attack the legitimacy of others to have it. That's silly. At this time, I own many Gibsons:.

No I simply asked if people that were bashing Gibson actually used the product. I never said anyone's opinion wasn't valid. When did I say anything about any of your opinions?

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

No I simply asked if people that were bashing Gibson actually used the product. I never said anyone's opinion wasn't valid. When did I say anything about any of your opinions?

It was an implication, not a genuine question, the way I read it.

 

[Securb]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

It was an implication, not a genuine question, the way I read it.

Well you read it wrong my friend, and why did you feel it was directed at you? The reason I come to this forum is to get peoples opinions. There is no way for me to try every pickup, guitar, amp and effect. I come here to learn about other's experiences. I was wondering if all the Gibson bashing was based on people's actual experience with the instruments and wanted a bit more depth than "the quality of the new Gibson's is horrible". I own a newer 2011 Les Paul Traditional and find the quality to be phenomenal, I couldn't be happier.

 

[Condemnedsoul]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

Quote from Above:
I like Les Pauls. If I got one today, it would have frets over the binding, hollowed out body, --- minE tuner ---, etc etc. That's not what I want in an LP.


Went to a local music store [ not GC ] and I explained to the store owner that I wanted a SG Standard without the minE tuner as the 2014 models will have it.

He pointed to the wall and there was a beautiful SG Standard. He had a couple of internet orders for SG Standards so he ordered a third SG for the store. Needles to say, I bought it.

Is it perfect, well no. The strings are resting on the bridge and Gibson put cheap strings on the guitar. So, it gets a string change and maybe a top wrapped tail stop. The guitar has nice grain. Plays like it was set up for me and has excellent sustain. And I was really surprised that the 57's sound really good in this guitar.

While he was showing me the guitar, he told me about a question he got when he ordered the SG's. The Gibson rep wanted to know why he and other stores were not ordering the guitars with e-tune. The store owner said he had to explain to the Gibson rep that his customers don't want e-tune.

 

[Lake Placid Blues]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

Well I'm glad this thread was posted. I had no idea this kind of BS was going on. (the Chinese counterfit BS mainly)

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

Well you read it wrong my friend, and why did you feel it was directed at you? The reason I come to this forum is to get peoples opinions. There is no way for me to try every pickup, guitar, amp and effect. I come here to learn about other's experiences. I was wondering if all the Gibson bashing was based on people's actual experience with the instruments and wanted a bit more depth than "the quality of the new Gibson's is horrible". I own a newer 2011 Les Paul Traditional and find the quality to phenomenal, I couldn't be happier.

Therein lies part of the reason why it read that way. You are a Gibson fan. You think their quality is great. That's okay by me. But you called those (including me) who think otherwise "bashers," a term that is both exaggerated and which carries a bad connotation. I don't call modern-day Gibson supporters "fan boys" when I question their reasoning and the validity of their evidence. And you made a statement basically saying that you question the reasoning of anyone who is a "basher," and saying that anyone who doesn't own a Gibson has no valid opinion to state. There is no way that reads as a genuine inquiry, but, rather, as a sarcastic and indirect jab at those who think worse of Gibson than you do. It reads as "I'll bet all these Gibson bashers don't even own Gibsons, otherwise, how could they have such opinions" not, "Hey, you guys who are down on Gibson here. I'm curious what exact Gibsons your opinions are based on, because I love the quality of my 2011 Gibson Les Paul." The latter is a genuine inquiry. The former is a backhanded, passive way of making a statement of opinion and bolstering it by attempting to invalidate the reasoning of others.

 

[Securb]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

Is it perfect, well no. The strings are resting on the bridge and Gibson put cheap strings on the guitar. So, it gets a string change and maybe a top wrapped tail stop. The guitar has nice grain. Plays like it was set up for me and has excellent sustain. And I was really surprised that the 57's sound really good in this guitar.

Both of my Gibson purchases were like your experience. I also don't like Gibson strings and my guitar was setup with 10s. The action on both was a bit too high for my liking also (I do love a lower than usual action). With a fresh set of .09s and a quick setup I am more than happy with both guitars. As guitar players we have so many preferences for strings, pickup height and action there is no way for any manufacturer to get it perfect for anyone right out of the box. In both cases Gibson got me pretty damn close to where I wanted to be.

 

[jon the art guy]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

No I simply asked if people that were bashing Gibson actually used the product. I never said anyone's opinion wasn't valid. When did I say anything about any of your opinions?

I don't use Gibsons for the same reason I don't use Lexus, bottled water, Grey Goose or sea salt. The perceived actual bonuses are not anywhere near the markup in price, except for name recognition. There isn't a Lexus that is worth allowing my children to destroy by touching it, I have tap water that is bottled and sent to supermarkets, I drink quintuple-filtered vodka from Costco that is bottled next door to Ciroc, and sea salt is too small, too salty and has no iodine.

I've played LPs, SGs, EB basses and acoustics from Gibson and none of them particularly shined for me enough to not get Epiphone. Maybe it's lost on me, or maybe the discrepancies in fretboard build and electronics aren't enough to really jangle my balls enough. I sure has heck won't be buying something on name recognition alone. Even with a Marshall reissue half stack turned up loud enough for a manager to skate out of the back room to shut me down, I couldn't really jibe with the nameplate representing a better guitar. My ability doesn't need bolstering by their headstock.

I also think they're design team isn't trying. They're giving neat designs to Epiphone, which is fine with me.

Also, they have a robber baron mentality of capitalism. This isn't 1965 anymore and some people (like me) care about unethical business practices, as well as draping themselves in the flag while shipping more and more work out of country and heavily jacking up the price on full-USA guitars. It's an industry that has a moral currency, and Gibson is pretty lacking.

 

[Aceman]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

No I simply asked if people that were bashing Gibson actually used the product. I never said anyone's opinion wasn't valid. When did I say anything about any of your opinions?

I am a Gibson Les PAul fanboi
I am a Business Consultant
I own 3 Les Pauls
(and an Epi, and two Dean Cadillacs)

I will gladly bash their business practices all day long. And I know a thing or ten about business. I will also bash their product - caveat; That is based on what OUGHT to be provided at the price point and is by nearly every other company.

The only threat to Gibson is Gibson itself. You want names? I'll start with Henry.

That said - I agree - the Counters are WRONG. But I find them fascinating....

However...I do not believe it is as crap as the guy in the video says. A little elbow grease and I bet you make it a decent player. The nut thing for example...20 bucks and 20 minutes. As if GIBSON never effs them up! They do... AND STILL CHARGE $2500!!!!!!!!

But yeah - nowhere close. Love it for what it is. Cheap imitation crap, which can be fun, entertaining, educational, etc....

 

[Lovegun]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

Does anyone here know the scale of the operation of chinese chibson makers? I mean how many chibsons they make a year and how many of these fakes make it to the western market (Usa, Canada and Eu)? I don't know, but I would like to know.

 

[AlexR]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

I think its TradeTang who sell the chinese LP knockoffs. Not sure on their sales numbers, but there are at least 2 or 3 threads per week on MLP flagging ebay/craigslist ads that either being re-sold by shady operatives or being sold on by unaware pawn shops.

 

[Lovegun]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

I think its TradeTang who sell the chinese LP knockoffs. Not sure on their sales numbers, but there are at least 2 or 3 threads per week on MLP flagging ebay/craigslist ads that either being re-sold by shady operatives or being sold on by unaware pawn shops.

I know TradeTang also sells other fakes too like Fender and others. So it could be a very big operation. I've heard they also scam money by putting high shipping costs. So one could end up with a chibson that cost 300-700 dollars plus another 100-200 on shipping costs. Why would anyone take such a chance with them?

 

[Securb]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

However...I do not believe it is as crap as the guy in the video says. A little elbow grease and I bet you make it a decent player. The nut thing for example...20 bucks and 20 minutes. As if GIBSON never effs them up! They do... AND STILL CHARGE $2500!!!!!!!! But yeah - nowhere close. Love it for what it is. Cheap imitation crap, which can be fun, entertaining, educational, etc....

I would love to get my hands on a Chibson first hand to get a comparison to other guitars in the $300 - $400 price range. They look nice enough, as you said a bit of work and I bet it could be made a player. That being said I would not want to put another fake Les Paul in the guitar population in fear eventually it may end up in the hands of someone that thinks they are buying a real Les Paul. I feel bad for the Mom and Pop music and pawn shops that get stuck with these things and have to ultimately throw them in the trash and eat the loss.

 

[Aceman]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

And I reserve the right to say "Wow - this thing really is an unshinable turd"

But again - these are the guys who make Epiphones/Deans/Squires/etc..., and some Epi's are crap, are also pretty decent.

I wouldn't expect much - but you might be surprised.

 

[crusty philtrum]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

It's interesting that many people have attitudes about fake instruments, and yet so many players are playing music written by other people, to get noticed, get gigs and make money. Their trade is imitation.

Personally i think all cover bands should use 100% copy equipment, nothing original. Original bands should build all their gear.

 

[Luke Duke]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

It's interesting that many people have attitudes about fake instruments, and yet so many players are playing music written by other people, to get noticed, get gigs and make money. Their trade is imitation.

Personally i think all cover bands should use 100% copy equipment, nothing original. Original bands should build all their gear.

:laugh2:

That made my day.

 

[Dr.K]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

I would love to get my hands on a Chibson first hand to get a comparison to other guitars in the $300 - $400 price range. They look nice enough, as you said a bit of work and I bet it could be made a player. That being said I would not want to put another fake Les Paul in the guitar population in fear eventually it may end up in the hands of someone that thinks they are buying a real Les Paul. I feel bad for the Mom and Pop music and pawn shops that get stuck with these things and have to ultimately throw them in the trash and eat the loss.

I saw this happen at a local pawn shop. They paid big bucks for a chibson and found out later what it was. That guitar hung on the racks for a couple of years before they had to sell it for a significant loss.

 

[uOpt]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

Does anyone here know the scale of the operation of chinese chibson makers? I mean how many chibsons they make a year and how many of these fakes make it to the western market (Usa, Canada and Eu)? I don't know, but I would like to know.

It's likely that the legal things and the actual fakes are coming out of the same factory. They might decide very late which guitar gets to be what. So I guess it's somewhat fuzzy.

 

[Aceman]

Re: chibson les paul....chinese copy gibsons

Personally i think all cover bands should use 100% copy equipment, nothing original. Original bands should build all their gear.

TONIGHT:

The Copy Right Infringements, with very special guest, The Knockoffs

:lmao: