Cloth behind nut

Re: Cloth behind nut

Left hand muting is totally irrelevant. This is behind the nut, and muting the string does not stop the vibrations from going back there where you CAN'T mute them. Behind the nut, the strings are free to clank and vibrate with hard pick attacks and quick stops. Dino Cazares puts foam back there and he was pleasantly surprised to hear that I suggested that over 10 years ago in an article for Guitar Shop. I also suggest putting one rotation of electrical tape wrap around each of your tremolo springs if you don't want that reverberation coming through the pickups either.
 
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Maybe the nut is cut too wide and the strings ring out above the headstock?? My Yngwie strat does this, so I place a piece of tape around the string to dampen it - problem solved.
 
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I changed nut several times thinking this way, and it didn't help at all.
I use foam and tape since I was 18 ears old 8) later I switched to fixed bridge guitars where the problem of the tremolo springs doesn't exist.
Now I also know that I'll never buy a guitar with a reverse headstock (but neither I will sell mine)
 
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My friend puts some foam behind the nut and in the strings between the bridge and tailpiece on his old hollowbody because he doesn't like the ringing out (I do)
 
Re: Cloth behind nut

My friend puts some foam behind the nut and in the strings between the bridge and tailpiece on his old hollowbody because he doesn't like the ringing out (I do)

Well, it depends a lot on whether the ringing is in tune or out of tune with what you are playing. On one of my guitar the ringing is perfectly in tune with the open string, so it adds character, and I'm happy with it, while the other guitar's ringing drove me mad during a long time before I figured out how to get rid of it
 
Re: Cloth behind nut

I have a buddy who plays acoustic fingerstyle really well and he places a piece of foam behind the nut. He told me it stops sympathetic ringing of the strings behind the nut. He uses many open tunings (as do I ) and he gets this ringing from his guitar. I have never experienced this before so I am only commenting on what I was told.
 
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Sometimes I pluck behind the nut on purpose, but fortunately I don't have any problems with those small segments of string ringing when I don't want them to. On my Squier, the tension apparatus resonates heavily with every A note I play.
 
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just not true...even with full lefthand muting get those overtones from behind the nut. I play clean but i can't mute strings behind the nut and therefore they sometimes still ring out and that's seriously annoying when we are talking about a reverse headstock design where the low strings have those noises.



I used to own a reverse head stock super strat. Even under heavy gain (SLO high gain with a tube screamer!), no feedback issues. When playing that loud/distorted it's essential to mute every string you're not playing, at all times. If everything is muted, there will be no sympathetic vibrations to happen in front or behind the nut. Watch Paul Gilbert just plug in and rip on high gain without any cheats.

now Michaelangelo used to use dampers and I'd guess now he uses gates. His technique doesn't allow his hands to mute anything out. Watch how he plays.
 
Re: Cloth behind nut

It's not cheating!it let's you play two handed tappings without mud and feedback issues.Not every guitar needs it.Mostly the guitars with greater headstock or less angle than 13° has it!It's killing some sustain ,but if you play one million notes per sec ,you won't need that sustain anyway!



?? EVH never needed it. I can tap all kinds of weird stuff and never needed it under high gain. But I worked for hours after hours to make it sound clean with my hands. It was so frustrating sometimes. But I'd never play out with a sock on my headstock!
 
Re: Cloth behind nut

i had a few MIM strats that the G string would ring out behind the nut and quite loud too.... it gave overtones like sounds thru the amp and sounded awful..... The G string would ring with any G or A notes... It could give off a weird Sitar like sound as well...

It really drove me mad trying to find a way to stop it... I Managed to quiet it down but not get rid of it completely.... some axes do it and some don't...


That's not enough downward angle to the post. When you get those type of vibrations on the headstock. some strats come with a D and G string tree. You can always add one. Or sometimes it's just two swipes of a file on the nut slot. or the simplest fix, winding the string further downwards (i.e. more wraps)

But that's due to a poorly cut nut if you get the sitar thing or that "ping" up there.
 
Re: Cloth behind nut

That's not enough downward angle to the post. When you get those type of vibrations on the headstock. some strats come with a D and G string tree. You can always add one. Or sometimes it's just two swipes of a file on the nut slot. or the simplest fix, winding the string further downwards (i.e. more wraps)

But that's due to a poorly cut nut if you get the sitar thing or that "ping" up there.

tried the file job, tried the windings farther down the post.... had a few tech friends look at it..

All i came up with was the distance from the nut to the tuner was the right length for a G note (on the G string).... and it would ring out on it's own anytime i hit a G note anywhere on the strat...

If i played a single G Note on the low E STRING, 3rd Fret the G string above the nut would vibrate like i was holding an EBOW on it as long as i held the fretted note...

it was weird and wild i tell ya.. the extra string tree would of come in handy... I worked in a repair shop for a bit as a helper more then anything, i've built some handmade instruments and stuff.... i'm not 100% new to working on a guitar... i'm no pro but not new either... and it was bugging the heck out of me..
 
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Re: Cloth behind nut

I used to own a reverse head stock super strat. Even under heavy gain (SLO high gain with a tube screamer!), no feedback issues. When playing that loud/distorted it's essential to mute every string you're not playing, at all times. If everything is muted, there will be no sympathetic vibrations to happen in front or behind the nut. Watch Paul Gilbert just plug in and rip on high gain without any cheats.

now Michaelangelo used to use dampers and I'd guess now he uses gates. His technique doesn't allow his hands to mute anything out. Watch how he plays.

The the guitar i'm talking about is my Jackson DR-7 7-string. Do you have any idea how huge a reverse Jackon 7-string headstock is? Even when i put my full hand on the strings the headstock resonates when i play a chord even if it's muted. The wood makes the vibration transfer and there's no way to mute this with just my hands.
Whatever superstrat you had, was this by any chance a locking trem guitar?
Paul Gilbert has a rather clean sound, it's High gain, but not very much(listen carefully he sounds quite clean).
Muting all strings at all time will be a big hinderance to playing anything but boring lowend-chugging. You can't mute all the strings when playing a sweep or do two hand tapping. If you always have to mute every string then work on precision to not hit all the strings but just the ones you really want to hit. I'm not talking about vibrations from the tuned strings but i'm talking about behind the nut resonance that can't be controlled with the hands.
 
Re: Cloth behind nut

I've got a Tele with overtones on the open G string. Like WhoFan I've tried working the nut a little, completely starting from scratch with a set-up, and trying different numbers of wraps on the tuner. I never thought to dampen the strings or add a string tee to the D and G strings.

It has nothing to do with muting technique, as once the energy transfers across the nut there's nothing I can do about muting that overtone. I bet a good tech or luthier could fix it right, or at least know what to add to make it go away, be it a new nut or string tee, or something else. It's definitely a construction issue and not a technique issue.
 
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The the guitar i'm talking about is my Jackson DR-7 7-string. Do you have any idea how huge a reverse Jackon 7-string headstock is? Even when i put my full hand on the strings the headstock resonates when i play a chord even if it's muted. The wood makes the vibration transfer and there's no way to mute this with just my hands.
Whatever superstrat you had, was this by any chance a locking trem guitar?
Paul Gilbert has a rather clean sound, it's High gain, but not very much(listen carefully he sounds quite clean).
Muting all strings at all time will be a big hinderance to playing anything but boring lowend-chugging. You can't mute all the strings when playing a sweep or do two hand tapping. If you always have to mute every string then work on precision to not hit all the strings but just the ones you really want to hit. I'm not talking about vibrations from the tuned strings but i'm talking about behind the nut resonance that can't be controlled with the hands.


NO! If you don't mute everything not played on a sweep, it will sound like a mess! Like what you hear every Saturday at Guitar Center. Muting all strings at all times is necessary for any advanced style of rock playing ESPECIALLY sweep styles and tapping as well as circle picking and alternate picking stuff. The fast stuff. It takes practice, but both hands need to mute everything except the string you're playing no matter how fast. I learned this when I was a kid, reading a Steve Morse interview. When he talked about high gain technique.

Paul Gilbert sounds uses quite a bit of gain at times. It sounds clean because his technique doesn't allow the other notes to ring, causing the fuzzies and that's when you hear distortion. A very good player will keep only allow one note to sound at a time even with a fast sweep arpeggio or whatever. If you play it perfectly and articulate it correctly, it will sound like there's no distortion, just clean tone with a ton of sustain. Every note sounds perfect and separate from the next, even at ridiculous speeds.

Now if you listen to Kirk Hammet or someone who can't mute properly, he gets ring because he's not muting cleanly. His notes overlap and it fuzzes on him.

I've experienced the behind the nut resonance on the G string on a few strats, but was able to fix it. I still say it's a poor nut/angle thing. I play Gibson and Fender mostly, working at a store playing a ton of guitars and teaching lots of metalheads. When these kids say their guitar sounds messy and think it's bad pickups or too much ringing feedback, I'll grab their guitar, crank the amp and gain and play something and immediately stop. It's silent. I just say learn to mute everthing at all times.


There are two separate things here. Some guys use that to help with their poor technique. I've seen it. If there's ringing with proper technique it's got to be some setup issue and could be as simple as adding a string tree. I've just never experienced a correctly set up guitar, causing string noise/feedback from above the nut/headstock even with a ton of gain/volume.
Oh, and the reverse head super strat had NO lock nut.
 
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Re: Cloth behind nut

Heavy... it's not all about your muting technique.

If you're playing technical, quick stop/start metal, when you strike the strings hard, as you should when playing this music, even if you mute all the strings between the nut and the bridge, even if you place both palms on them and totally kill any noise that could even happen, you can still hear resonance from the strings both behind the nut, and behind the bridge.

It's NOT anything even CLOSE to the string-dampener technique that people use to sound cleaner. It's strictly for killing those vibrations so that you have SILENCE when you have a pause, and don't have that little "nyiinggg" sound from the strings up there.

If you've got that in your head, it also has no indication of a poor setup. On angled headstock guitars, there usually is never a string tree, and I wouldn't even think of adding one up there when electrical tape works just as well.
 
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Re: Cloth behind nut

I understand what you're saying Virtual, and as I was saying, there are two separate issues here. I've seen guys use it, because of poor technique of allowing the strings to develop sympathetic vibrations, the strings above the nut will ring as well. That can be controlled by a good player under the most insane playing.


But I've still never experienced that ring even playing stuff very staccato like that. But I remember dimebag using gates to sound real tight on the cutoffs for rhythms like Cowboys From hell. He'd set it so it's real sensitive to allow the note to only come through on a strong hit, otherwise nothing would come through.
 
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Re: Cloth behind nut

I think the point is that no player, regardless of skill level, can control the sympathetic vibrations that occur as a result of set-up.
 
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or more like lack of a setup. On strats where the G string would ping behind the nut, after the fix/setup it didn't do it.

Since strats don't have much angle shouldn't they exhibit this more than most other guitars?
 
Re: Cloth behind nut

Not sure... my only experience with this in on one of my teles. The break angle is very flat because there is no string tee on the D and G strings.

Aside from the overtone on the open G string, the setup is flawless, which is what kept me guessing (or keeps me guessing: I haven't solved anything yet). Unfortunately, I don't have the practical knowledge to perform a competent nut job. So for players like me, our options are to shell out some cash or toss a band aid on the problem and keep on playing.
 
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