Compensated claw?

[BloodRose]

Im a big fan of big trem blocks and have even upgraded springs and to brass claws on some axes. Now KGC is offering a compensated claw where it varies spring length to balance the tension. Anyone try one? thoughts?

http://www.killerguitarcomponents.c...er-brass-claws/killer-compensated-claw-detail

 

[gordon_39422]

Re: Compensated claw?

Havne't tried one, but interesting concept and I LOVE the material the claw is made from!

 

[Zerberus]

Re: Compensated claw?

I would never pay 50$ to do somethign that I can already do for free with a simple tool like a screwdriver.

Like more tension on one side of the trem? Then drive that side`s screw in deeper, which will also angle the claw. And is reversible. And costs nothing

Brass claw, yes, if you feel you need it. But a pre angled one is just actively preying on people with more money thatn knowledge IMO....

 

[stringbender11]

Re: Compensated claw?

I wouldnt personally buy one but I think it's a pretty cool idea, and it's really nicely made, imo.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Compensated claw?

This is just about the height of idiocy when it comes to guitar products. It's not a "cool idea" or an "interesting concept." It simply does not work, in practice or in theory! It's pure bull****, and anyone with a 1st-grade understanding of mechanics could tell you that. Stop and think for two seconds, and you'll see that it makes no physical sense. The block is solid, and it is fixed to the bridge, which moves in a set arc. Therefore you CANNOT change the vibrato tension on individual strings; it's impossible. All you can do is change the total spring tension placed on the block. This thing does nothing but slightly alter the stock spring tension, which anyone can already do for free. Also, angling the vibrato does nothing that you can't do while keeping it square. It doesn't hurt anything to do it, but it doesn't do anything special either.

 

[Little Pigbacon]

Re: Compensated claw?

My credit card it not feeling a call to ministry right now.

 

[Agileguy_101]

Re: Compensated claw?

Brass claw, yes, if you feel you need it. But a pre angled one is just actively preying on people with more money than knowledge IMO....

Agreed. But hey, if people are stupid enough to buy it more power to KGC.

This is just about the height of idiocy when it comes to guitar products. It's not a "cool idea" or an "interesting concept." It simply does not work, in practice or in theory! It's pure bull****, and anyone with a 1st-grade understanding of mechanics could tell you that. Stop and think for two seconds, and you'll see that it makes no physical sense. The block is solid, and it is fixed to the bridge, which moves in a set arc. Therefore you CANNOT change the vibrato tension on individual strings; it's impossible. All you can do is change the total spring tension placed on the block. This thing does nothing but slightly alter the stock spring tension, which anyone can already do for free. Also, angling the vibrato does nothing that you can't do while keeping it square. It doesn't hurt anything to do it, but it doesn't do anything special either.

I dunno man, I had a guitar teacher that told me to angle my claw like that. He learned it from (and I believe this guy 100%) Tony Iommi when he came into the shop that my teacher worked at in the 70's and brought a strat with him and challenged my teacher to throw it out of tune. He couldn't and Tony told him that he used the angled claw method. I did it on my strat at the time and I'll be damned if it didn't hold tune much better.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Compensated claw?

I dunno man, I had a guitar teacher that told me to angle my claw like that. He learned it from (and I believe this guy 100%) Tony Iommi when he came into the shop that my teacher worked at in the 70's and brought a strat with him and challenged my teacher to throw it out of tune. He couldn't and Tony told him that he used the angled claw method. I did it on my strat at the time and I'll be damned if it didn't hold tune much better.

Well, I do know: there is no physical reason for that, no matter who does it or who tells who about it. Use your head, man. It's basic, common sense mechanics. Regardless of tension, or of claw angle, the vibrato always moves in the same path. It would need to selectively deviate from that path on a string-by-string basis in order for claw angle to affect the way the strings behave upon vibrato use. I'd challenge you to find a reason why achieving a certain overall tension by angling the claw, and the same overall tension with a straight claw, would give different results...but you can't, because there isn't one.

ALL angling the claw does is change overall tension. Setting the tension properly is part of setting up a vibrato, whether the claw is angled or not. If there were any benefits to tuning stability after angling the claw, it was ONLY because the change in overall tension just happened to be beneficial to the overall setup of the vibrato.

As I said before, angling the claw isn't really a bad thing. It just doesn't do anything special. If you find it to take too much effort and attention to neatness and detail to turn two screws instead of one, then by all means, angle the claw to achieve the desired tension. Just don't think your results will be any different than if you had achieved the same tension by turning two screws equally.

 

[Gone_Shootin]

Re: Compensated claw?

Waste of money.

 

[Ayrton]

Re: Compensated claw?

I would like to add that I have never had to angle a claw to get a floating trem set up.

 

[astrozombie]

Re: Compensated claw?

If I had cash to literally BURN and a decent strat i'd give this a try just to report back and say it works or it doesnt... but I'm not jumping at the idea.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Compensated claw?

As said, physics don't like the concept. The trem block is anchored evenly with 2 or 6 screwed on the top. You cannot twist it enough to make a difference in left and right tension on the bottom be felt on the top, when using it.

There is a similar concept where some Strat people claim they can set up the springs in a way that a chord played stays in tune when using the trem, which is kind of a ludicrous thing to attempt in the general sense (for more than one chord up the fretboard, assuming you can make even a single one work).

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Compensated claw?

It's Brass-Mania all over again. Remember kids, replace those steel/zinc screws in your pickguards and pickup rings with genuine 100% brass, for better tone.

I can see letting the idiots do whatever they want with their money, but at some point the community has to step in between the lemmings and the cliff.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Compensated claw?

As said, physics don't like the concept. The trem block is anchored evenly with 2 or 6 screwed on the top. You cannot twist it enough to make a difference in left and right tension on the bottom be felt on the top, when using it.

Of course guys like guitar virtuoso Carl Verheyen disagree. I started adjusting my Strats the way Carl suggests and I now can use my vibrato instead of having it tightened down flat to the deck and useless.

There's no doubt more than one way to skin a cat...and to set up a Strat...but Carl's method works as well as any and better than anything else I've tried.

The critical thing is angling the claw and then adjusting it so when you pull up on the arm the G string raises to a B flat, the B string raises to a C# and the E string raises to a F.

Some guys on the guitar forums say it's BS - but Carl's method makes my Strat's vibrato usable.

And I'll take the advice of a virtuoso like Carl over the advice of guys who spend more time on guitar forums than they do playing their guitar. Especially when that advice works.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Compensated claw?

Of course guys like guitar virtuoso Carl Verheyen disagree. I started adjusting my Strats the way Carl suggests and I now can use my vibrato instead of having it tightened down flat to the deck and useless.

There's no doubt more than one way to skin a cat...and to set up a Strat...but Carl's method works as well as any and better than anything else I've tried.

The critical thing is angling the claw and then adjusting it so when you pull up on the arm the G string raises to a B flat, the B string raises to a C# and the E string raises to a F.

Some guys on the guitar forums say it's BS - but Carl's method makes my Strat's vibrato usable.

And I'll take the advice of a virtuoso like Carl over the advice of guys who spend more time on guitar forums than they do playing their guitar. Especially when that advice works.

That can only work if he ends up pending the baseplate of the trem. I mean ordinarily the thing is stiff and anchored with screws. I would really like for somebody to put up a before/after youtube video how a Strat that didn't synchronize the notes does after this treatment.

Nothing is impossible of course.

 

[ItsaBass]

Re: Compensated claw?

Sheesh. THAT video again. It's one of the most offensive-to-common-intelligence crocks of **** on the Internet in all of Guitardom. That guy doesn't know what he is talking about in the slightest. Anybody can become a technical guitarist with enough devotion. It doesn't have anything to do with smarts, or his or her understanding of simple mechanics...which are dead wrong in this case. We all must know total idiots who can play us under the table. It doesn't mean we should take mechanical advice from them, especially when common sense tells us that it makes no sense at all.

All he is doing is explaining one way to set up a Strat vibrato to a certain overall tension that happens to be pretty close to the ideal setup for a Strat vibrato. All he is doing by angling the claw is changing the overall tension on the block. You can achieve the exact same results while keeping the claw straight. It has NOTHING to do with how the claw is angled.

How could it? Will somebody who thinks it does please answer that? If you think it works, against all proven laws of nature, then please tell us how. Tell us how having more tension on one spring than on another spring can possibly translate through a piece of metal that is solid and inflexible, and which is mechanically limited to moving in a set path/arc, regardless of string tension. The bridge and block are limited to the same path of movement whether there no spring tension at all, or whether spring tension is maxed out. Explain to us how two springs at different tensions transmit those different tensions up to the strings individually.

 

[jon the art guy]

Re: Compensated claw?

So I'm starting to feel that you guys disagree with the idea a little.

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[ItsaBass]

Re: Compensated claw?

So I'm starting to feel that you guys disagree with the idea a little.

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It isn't just that. It's that it's a totally ****ing retarded, imagination-based concept. Those who can't see that need to step back a minute and really, really think about it objectively. There is no way around the fact that it just does not work, period. Saying that it works is no less crazy than saying that the gravitational pull of the Earth causes objects to fall away from the surface.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Compensated claw?

So I'm starting to feel that you guys disagree with the idea a little.

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Not me.

Not at all.

The brass claw they're peddling might even sound good, and better than the stock Fender claw.

Or not.

I dunno...I haven't tried it and for the price I don't think I'll buy one to find out.

Like Zerb said, you can just screw one screw in a little deeper to accomplish much the same thing in terms of getting the angle going.

Whether the added mass of the brass claw adds to the tone of the guitar, I don't know.

Neither does anyone else who hasn't tried it.

 

[uOpt]

Re: Compensated claw?

Speaking for myself I don't totally rule out that you can get an effect from uneven spring loading (whatever way you choose). However the way I see it it requires that you either end up bending the baseplate, or wiggle inside the screws. Both of which I don't think will happen, but I don't it's impossible. In any case, even if so that would be uncontrolled, that is why I call "I wanna see that" on the chord thing.