Compensated claw?

[LReese]

Re: Compensated claw?

Nope. Actually it's right the opposite - the claw is in a spot where the choice of material is expected to affect tone. Being a mounting point for the springs, the claw performs a function similar to that of a nut/bridge/tailpiece. :22:

Respectfully -

Sorry - not buying it. The reverb from the springs (if it makes a difference) is a minuscule factor IMO. There is a difference in tone between a vibrato and hard tail bridge, no doubt - night and day difference in construction.

The springs will vibrate but I sure don't hear the 'reverb' from that in the amp. If I did, why am I adding reverb at the amp or by pedal?

If you like the fancy claw, buy it for cosmetics only - that's reason enough to have it.

 

[Metalblaze]

Re: Compensated claw?

I have been wrestling with the whole "claw material" thing affecting the tone. I have a hard time of it, but at the same time I can see the possibility due to the fact that it dos anchor one end of the strings by way of the.... Strings and Bridge. That being said.....what about the screws that anchor "The Claw" ? LOL:scratchch

KGC produce brass screws too. I think I have a couple of them from when I was assembling my Warmoth strat. The thing is that I put them on the guitar without first trying it with standard ones so I don't know if they make a difference. nder: I put them there just for the sake of it. But the big brass block does make a difference for sure. But after the whole experience I got from guitar tone research etc I ended up finding that tremolos can never sound as good as a fixed bridge like in the style of TOM or any hardtail no matter what you do to them. Tremolos introduce a sizzle in sound that I don't like. I have always liked Floyds for their effects etc and I never had any issues on setting them up etc...but when it comes to tone, nothing beats a fixed bridge. So that's a big relief as I got this whole thing with brass blocks, tremol-nos, wooden blocks etc out of my mind.

Having said that, I will always have 1 or 2 guitars with Floyds.

 

[jon the art guy]

Re: Compensated claw?

Sorry for the negative response man. I really didn't mean to be a buzz kill I'm just fighting with the reality of having to put my dog down so it caught me at the wrong moment. Really didn't mean to express my frustrations to everyone on the forum.

not a problem at all, man. There's zero ability to gauge reader reactions online, so I tend to let it all hang out and clean up/ignore the side effects. I've been an internet addict since 2400 baud was fast and haven't come across properly in this whole time. Still waiting for the sarcasm font...but I don't think they're working on it.

My condolences on the dog. Be concerned with making sure it's smiling at you when it's time; They can't hate you but they can miss you. I'm consoled with that I've only had to put down cats, who by nature hate every single human being on earth.

Godspeed, doggie.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Compensated claw?

No love lost, LReese. I have provided an explanation but I'll leave it up to you whether to accept it or reject it.

The springs will vibrate but I sure don't hear the 'reverb' from that in the amp

I do. And I bet Carl Verheyen does, too.

I ended up finding that tremolos can never sound as good as a fixed bridge like in the style of TOM or any hardtail no matter what you do to them. Tremolos introduce a sizzle in sound that I don't like.

A tremolo sounds completely different to a fixed bridge, that's the obvious, naked truth. But there can be no universal judgment like "a fixed bridge always sounds better than a moveable one". I am not trying to deprive you of your opinion or disrespect it but I think you're oversimplifying things a bit.

A hardtail Strat just doesn't sound right if you're going for the "orthodox" vibe. Don't get me wrong, I love Jake E. Lee's one but let's make it clear that it is not the same animal as Hendrix's or Gilmour's. Catch my drift?
Among awesome sounding guitars there are ones with every kind of bridge. Some are sizzly, some are grizzly :lol: some are pingy, some are woody, some are screamers, some are growlers, some a-bit-of-this-a-bit-of-that. You might have a clear vision of what a "perfect guitar" should sound like. I don't, I enjoy variety. Floyd loaded tone monsters are rare but not as much as unicorns.

You know, some like apples, some like oranges and I like both. I don't like lemons though.

There is nothing inherently wrong about a hardtail strat, a tele with a bridge humbucker, a floyd loaded LP (yuck) or a tuneomatic superstrat (yuck with a capital F). But when you need the archetype tones, they won't quite cut the mustard. When I'm looking for a familiar flavor, I don't want basil on my pizza, or oregano in my pesto, so to say.

 

[Metalblaze]

Re: Compensated claw?

No love lost, LReese. I have provided an explanation but I'll leave it up to you whether to accept it or reject it.


I do. And I bet Carl Verheyen does, too.


A tremolo sounds completely different to a fixed bridge, that's the obvious, naked truth. But there can be no universal judgment like "a fixed bridge always sounds better than a moveable one". I am not trying to deprive you of your opinion or disrespect it but I think you're oversimplifying things a bit.

A hardtail Strat just doesn't sound right if you're going for the "orthodox" vibe. Don't get me wrong, I love Jake E. Lee's one but let's make it clear that it is not the same animal as Hendrix's or Gilmour's. Catch my drift?
Among awesome sounding guitars there are ones with every kind of bridge. Some are sizzly, some are grizzly :lol: some are pingy, some are woody, some are screamers, some are growlers, some a-bit-of-this-a-bit-of-that. You might have a clear vision of what a "perfect guitar" should sound like. I don't, I enjoy variety. Floyd loaded tone monsters are rare but not as much as unicorns.

You know, some like apples, some like oranges and I like both. I don't like lemons though.

There is nothing inherently wrong about a hardtail strat, a tele with a bridge humbucker, a floyd loaded LP (yuck) or a tuneomatic superstrat (yuck with a capital F). But when you need the archetype tones, they won't quite cut the mustard. When I'm looking for a familiar flavor, I don't want basil on my pizza, or oregano in my pesto, so to say.

Ah I should put the "in my opinion" indication after my post, always forget it. I was talking about what I like.

 

[vinta9e]

Re: Compensated claw?

Ah I should put the "in my opinion" indication after my post, always forget it. I was talking about what I like.

It's fine, I might have overreacted. Having your own opinion earns my respect. :beerchug:

 

[Metalblaze]

Re: Compensated claw?

It's fine, I might have overreacted. Having your own opinion earns my respect. :beerchug:

It's alrighty no prob, man. I like it when people have different opinions. It would be too boring otherwise.

 

[Lucy Diamond]

Re: Compensated claw?

This is something I'll look out for. I like the idea of anything new that is helpful.

I really like floated strat trems but oddly enough I don't ever use them :dunno:
(I like the boingy sound when you bang on the floated trem.)

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Compensated claw?

String resonance stops at the baseplate. If the brass block is physically heavier than the factory block, I can see where there would be a tonal difference; You're adding mass to the baseplate.

I cannot accept the notion that the claw does anything other than hold the other end of the springs to the guitar body. Removing it completely will certainly affect tone, as there's no counter-anchor and the strings flop haplessly about. Block the trem so it doesn't move and you change the tone because vibrations pass through the baseplate to the spring block to the block blocker to the body.

The claw does nothing other than hold the springs. It cannot affect tone based on material alone.

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Compensated claw?

String resonance stops at the baseplate. If the brass block is physically heavier than the factory block, I can see where there would be a tonal difference.

The claw does nothing other than hold the springs. It cannot affect tone based on material alone.

I have actually wondered about this. Maybe some of the physicists on the forum will chime in here. When the tremolo block is "blocked" it is coupled to the body and the tone, I suspect, should be closer to that of a hardtail. Like others have noted, this is at the cost of a certain loss of the vibe that makes a Strat a Strat.

It seems to me that in a tremolo bridge there is at least a token amount of coupling of the block to the body through the springs, then through the claw, and then ultimately through the wood adjustment screws. Remember I said "token amount".

What I intend to try on a guitar build (I hope to finish someday) is to prepare a hole in the claw, and then once the spring tension is set, secure the claw to the body firmly with a screw. I may have to make an elongated claw to be sure that the point of attachment is in the web of the body between two pickups. It is my expectation that the more secure attachment of the claw to the body (eliminating the suspended form of attachment using the adjustment screws only) will provide a perceptible improvement in tone and sustain ..... somewhere between that of a blocked trem and a Strat with the standard floating claw arrangement.

Thoughts?

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Compensated claw?

String resonance stops at the baseplate. If the brass block is physically heavier than the factory block, I can see where there would be a tonal difference; You're adding mass to the baseplate.

I cannot accept the notion that the claw does anything other than hold the other end of the springs to the guitar body. Removing it completely will certainly affect tone, as there's no counter-anchor and the strings flop haplessly about. Block the trem so it doesn't move and you change the tone because vibrations pass through the baseplate to the spring block to the block blocker to the body.

The claw does nothing other than hold the springs. It cannot affect tone based on material alone.

OH but it does affect tone. I admit it's a subtle change but it's noticeable. Now as for the angling of the claw I can't say either way if that does or not.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Compensated claw?

I have actually wondered about this. Maybe some of the physicists on the forum will chime in here. When the tremolo block is "blocked" it is coupled to the body and the tone, I suspect, should be closer to that of a hardtail. Like others have noted, this is at the cost of a certain loss of the vibe that makes a Strat a Strat.

It seems to me that in a tremolo bridge there is at least a token amount of coupling of the block to the body through the springs, then through the claw, and then ultimately through the wood adjustment screws. Remember I said "token amount".

What I intend to try on a guitar build (I hope to finish someday) is to prepare a hole in the claw, and then once the spring tension is set, secure the claw to the body firmly with a screw. I may have to make an elongated claw to be sure that the point of attachment is in the web of the body between two pickups. It is my expectation that the more secure attachment of the claw to the body (eliminating the suspended form of attachment using the adjustment screws only) will provide a perceptible improvement in tone and sustain ..... somewhere between that of a blocked trem and a Strat with the standard floating claw arrangement.

Thoughts?

Yea what happens when you need to adjust the tension? How will you move the claw with no screws to move it?

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Compensated claw?

I like Carl's suggestion of adjusting the claw so that when I pull up on the vibrato arm the G string raises to a B flat, the B string raises to a C# and the E string raises to a F.

That works for me.

And it's easier for me to achieve that with an angled claw.

That's the point of the angled claw.

That, and also to match the spring tension on the back of the guitar with the string tension on the front of the guitar.

It may be possible to achieve that with a straight claw.

But it's far easier for me to nail those pitch raises and get them perfectly in tune with an angled claw.

If a guy doesn't understand that that is the main purpose of the angled claw he's missing the point of why the claw is angled.

So it's all about achieving those two goals.

If you can do it with a straight claw, more power to ya! Go right ahead.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Compensated claw?

Thats weird I can get from e to f# on my high e and a step and a half on my b string maybe floyds have a different range.

 

[Lewguitar]

Re: Compensated claw?

Thats weird I can get from e to f# on my high e and a step and a half on my b string maybe floyds have a different range.

Well that's fine. Nothing wrong with that if that's what you want.

But that's not the goal of Carl's method.

We're not trying to get the pitch to raise from E to F#.

You're after something different than what Carl and I are after and that's fine.

But you can't achieve what you want with Carl's method.

 

[Rockstar216]

Re: Compensated claw?

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Compensated claw?

Yea what happens when you need to adjust the tension? How will you move the claw with no screws to move it?

I would set the tension in the conventional way ... using the wood screw attached to the front wall of the cavity. Then I will tighten the claw down to the body with an added fastener.

I always use the same brand and gauge of string and have never had to adjust the tension more than once.

 

[DrNewcenstein]

Re: Compensated claw?

In my experience, the vast majority of "subtle" changes in tone are directly related to perception and desire for a difference than actual change. It's like the quarter on EVH's Frankenstrat. It HAS to be the same year, and same mint, or else it doesn't sound the same.

I suspect this brass claw business is the same thing. You detect a difference because it's brass, and you know that a brass nut does sound different than a bone, plastic, graphite, roller, steel, or other material nut, and you know that brass saddles sound different from steel or other non-brass saddles, and that a brass block sounds different from steel or titanium or platinum or vanadium or granite blocks. "Logic" dictates therefore that if any other item not made of brass were swapped out with one made of brass, there will be a change in tone. The only thing left besides the nut and saddles and block is the spring claw, so you convince yourself that it will have a different tone.

Until I hear an unmolested recording of the same guitar with and without a brass claw, playing the same thing with the same EQ and pickups/controls settings, or I hear it in person, it stands as merely a perception influenced by the desire to hear a difference - a trick of the mind.

 

[Lazarus1140]

Re: Compensated claw?

I like to play with tricks of the mind on 10.

 

[Stratman]

Re: Compensated claw?

Last year, I wrote on this forum that I thought that KGC brass components were a bunch of BS.

I was questioned by several people including Rick (KGC), so I purchased a KGC brass block and found that KGC is telling the truth!

So, then I purchased the original brass claw to see if that also made any difference, again - I was impressed.

Now I have purchased a compensated claw and brass saddles and will see how they work out and let you all (Including Rick - KGC) how well they actually work.


Callaham - I have their bridge assembly and also SuperVee’s. There is difference in tone and sustain in these two products, which are different in term of quality and sound, yet each/both are better than Gotoh and Fender.

Unless anyone tried these products, you need to keep as a wise man once said - your mouth closed (e.g. put-up or shut-up).